EAP forums & download ?

Is there a problem with the EAP forums and download page?

When I go to the IDEA forums at http://www.intellij.net/forums, I see IDEA forum links, but I don't see the IDEA EAP forum link - I only got here by following my 'outstanding questions' link... and I no longer see a link to the EAP download from here...

I've not been on the IDEA forum site for a while - did I miss some reorganisation? If so, what's the new layout?

Edited by: Dave Lorde on Mar 16, 2008 8:05 PM

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There has apparently been an upgrade of the bulletin-board software. Beginning sometime yesterday (maybe late Friday?) all I could get was a Tomcat stack dump. At first I figured it was a problem with the server (what else?) but when it went on for well over a day, I decided, on a lark, to open the Forums link in a different browser. It worked fine (but I was not logged in, 'cause that browser doesn't have the cookies that enable auto-login). So I removed the intellij.net cookies from my main browser and, lo-and-behold, I got the forums (and was able to log in, obviously). I immediately noticed a difference in the forum's appearance. Even more differences are evident here in the message composition editor.

Clearly the new version has a more message formatting capabilities than the old one as well as "Preview" tab. I also notice a periodically updating message at the bottom of the screen saying "Draft saved at 2:09" (the time keeps changing—it appears to perform its auto-save once each 60 seconds).


Randall Schulz

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Tomcat stacktrace is caused by the bug in the new version of the forums when you have cookies from the old version set in your browser. We've already contacted Jive support regarding it. A workaround is to delete jive.authToken.autologin cookie. Of course, it makes no sense posting this workaround here as people who have this problem will not be able to login.

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Click on the IDEA forums group and you'll see the EAP forums in it.

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Click on the IDEA forums group and you'll see the EAP forums in it.

OIC - I didn't notice that was a link as it isn't underlined.

BTW the system allows you to 'reply' to a message, but I don't see a way to 'quote' it...

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Ah, thanks for the update. An advance warning or an explanatory notice would have been nice...

So how do we get to the EAP download page?

BTW - this forum editor is weird & nasty - when you edit an existing message, the 'Edit Message' button posts the message, the 'Save Now' button doesn't seem to do anything, and I'm not quite sure what the 'Discard' button will do - does it delete the original or just the new edit?

Edited by: Dave Lorde on Mar 16, 2008 11:02 PM

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BTW the system allows you to 'reply' to a message, but I don't see a way to 'quote' it...


When you type your message there are formatting buttons on the top of the editor. The most right button displaying quotes inserts the quoted version of the message which you are replying to.

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When you type your message there are formatting buttons on the top of the editor. The most right button displaying quotes inserts the quoted version of the message which you are replying to.


OK, now I see... I thought they were to put quotes round a selection (d'oh!)

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the new feature i'll probably bless many times is a warning when you're about to discard your message.

I have to say, that i've been using Ctrl +W too many times in Firefox, trying to enlarge the selection and it does not have the exact same effect there :)

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That's what Tab Mix Plus is for! Even if you accidentally close a tab (even one with editable text areas therein), you can restore it using Tab Mix Plus' "Undo Close Tab" function!

(I'll bet I need it more than you! I long ago mapped CTRL+W in Vim to :save^M ... Need I say more?)

RRS

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Wow, a hidden forum! How helpful is that?

It's strange that I have to follow a discussion about the missing EAP forums in the EAP forums. I only found this forum by going to my profile,and looking up my old messages. I was actually still waiting for the EAP forum to come back on the homepage, cause I guessed you were working on it.

I also had no idea you could click on a header...

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What's indeed strange is that only 4 of the IDEA forums are visible from the "Forum Home" (http://www.intellij.net/forums/index.jspa?categoryID=1) (obtained by clicking on the Home>>Forum Home" link on the top of the page. Those are " Plugins", "Open API", "Community", "Documentation", and nothing indicates that we will see more when narrowing the scope to only "IDEA" by clicking on the Fourm group link.

This is especially strange that we can see right under the IDEA group, the Resharper group, which contains some "EAP" forums.

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Hello Erik,

The UI of the new Jive Forums indeed sucks in this aspect, and to get around
that, I've moved all relevant IDEA forums to the top level. Now you should
be able to see them easily.

Wow, a hidden forum! How helpful is that?

It's strange that I have to follow a discussion about the missing EAP
forums in the EAP forums. I only found this forum by going to my
profile,and looking up my old messages. I was actually still waiting
for the EAP forum to come back on the homepage, cause I guessed you
were working on it.

I also had no idea you could click on a header...

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Development Lead
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


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"Dave Lorde" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:21495318.3901205708207114.JavaMail.jive@app4.labs.intellij.net...
>

BTW the system allows you to 'reply' to a message, but I don't see a way
to 'quote' it...


Use your favorite NNTP reader instead of the Jetbrains website.



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Gack!

The stone age is over...


RRS

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Hello Randall,

The stone age is over...


Actually the only way I'm able to process all the traffic on the EAP forums
and JIRA is by using Omea as an NNTP reader. It's much more efficient than
refreshing the Web pages many times a day.

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Development Lead
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


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have to say that RSS is very helpful there

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Well, the forum software you're using ("Jive", did you call it?) was never fast, but since the upgrade, many functions are much worse. The time it takes to refresh the Forum Summary page (at the Forum Home » IDEA level) is exorbitant, as is the time required to produce a Post or Reply display.

I've used a lot of bulletin boards, and this one is by far the slowest. Perhaps that should be addressed.


Randall Schulz

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Should be much better now after some tuning =)

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Use your favorite NNTP reader instead of the Jetbrains website.

Don't think I have one of those, let alone a favourite one...

Is it really worth finding one? - i.e. in what ways is it better & easier to use than the web forums?

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Dave Lorde wrote:
>>

>>
>> Use your favorite NNTP reader instead of the Jetbrains website.
>>

Don't think I have one of those, let alone a favourite one...

Is it really worth finding one? - i.e. in what ways is it better & easier to use than the web forums?

Stop... you're making me feel old!

N.

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Dave Lorde wrote:
>>

>>
>> Use your favorite NNTP reader instead of the Jetbrains website.
>>

Don't think I have one of those, let alone a favourite one...


I read this in Thunderbird together with my email and everything else.

Is it really worth finding one? - i.e. in what ways is it better & easier to use than the web forums?


I haven't used the web forums for a while, but last time I tried, NNTP
in Thunderbird was better because:

It keeps track of exactly what I have read. With web forums I have to
try to find my way to the next unread message in a given thread, and
even if the forum tries to keep track of what I've already read, it only
knows what pages I've loaded -- not what messages on that page I've
actually read. This is a huge time saver and the main reason why I've
never liked web forums.

It is also easy to read the 4 new messages in a single newsgroup without
clicking back and forth to visit the 4 different threads they appear in.

It is much easier to navigate back to a parent of a message, and to get
an overview of the true nested reply structure, instead of just having
everything sorted in chronological order. Of course some forums CAN
view messages in a nested structure but then it's even more difficult to
find the messages you haven't read yet.

It lets me flag messages using labels or stars, so I can come back to
them later.

It lets me kill threads I'm not interested in, so that messages in those
threads are automatically marked as read.

In other words, it works exactly like reading ordinary mail, in a
program created specifically for that purpose, whereas web forums try to
put these features into a generic web browser and often don't succeed
very well... The only advantages I can see with web forums would be
that there is a slightly lower threshold for users to start reading and
posting. And possibly the ability to do things like polls, give scores
to messages, and other things that aren't part of standard NNTP.

Of course I haven't tested the current forum software so I can't say for
sure how they work now. Feel free to prove me wrong :)

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On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:23:00 +0100, Jonas Kvarnström wrote:

Dave Lorde wrote:

>>>

>>>
>>> Use your favorite NNTP reader instead of the Jetbrains website.
>>>
>> Don't think I have one of those, let alone a favourite one...


I read this in Thunderbird together with my email and everything else.

>> Is it really worth finding one? - i.e. in what ways is it better &
>> easier to use than the web forums?


I haven't used the web forums for a while, but last time I tried, NNTP
in Thunderbird was better because:




I'd add that NNTP itself saves bandwidth by only requiring new articles
to be fetched. Perhaps not a big deal for those who work in offices with
fast 'net connections, but a benefit for those on the end of crappy ADSL
lines.

Some/many/most(?) NNTP clients additionally support scoring, killfiles
and offline reading/composing. Not that I'm suggesting anyone posting to
any of the Jetbrains newsgroups needs plonking in a killfile.

--
Mark Scott
mark@codebrewer.com

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Thanks for the explanation, Jonas.

OK, well I guess I asked for it, so now I'm going to have to try it and see for myself...

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adding the rss feeds to an rss reader works like a charm too , and allows one not to need an nntp client (not speaking about the fact that corporate proxies may not allow nntp protocol)

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Just compared the NNTP view with the forum view, and it seems not to work correctly.

As an example I can't see the post I'm replyng to here in the nntp server.

ANd there are also posts that we can see on the nntp server and not on the web forum http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=270811&tstart=0#5210481 as an example, where I can't see here the last two posts respectively made by Maxim and Andrei yesterday at 5pm

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