25 comments

Hello opticyclic,

Will removing unused plugins make IDEA open faster?


Yes.

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Development Lead
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


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Startup time for IDEA is something awful. In general its not a huge issue, but thats mostly just because I'm used to it.

I've been using IDEA since 3.x, and load time has always been something a bit longer than a minute. This is on a series of laptops and Linux/Windows OSes over the years. Somethings helped it go faster (newer laptop, newer JVMs), Somethings make it go slower (newer IDEAs). I've never timed it under 60 seconds.

I guess this is the bane of Java desktop apps. If I ever in my life see IDEA startup in under 30 seconds I may drop dead of shock. I suppose a souped up desktop might make a go at it, but I've never used anything but a laptop for last 10 years.

On my machine anyway, pruning the plugin list made me feel better, but didnt result in a measurable difference in startup time.

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Do you count just startup time or also opening the project? Then it would heavily depend on the size of your project, on the performance of you hard disk and so on.

For me IDEA itself starts in about 3-5 seconds, project with 40 000 classes opens in about 25 seconds (of course not when you open it for the first time, since caches generation takes more time).

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On my machine anyway, pruning the plugin list made me
feel better, but didnt result in a measurable
difference in startup time.


...same here

Francesco

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Hello Serge,

You mean project with 40,000 source files? Wow that's pretty big! What kind
of project is it where you would not want to modularize it into separate
Projects/JARs. I do not mean separate IDEA modules but rather separate
sub-products (jars) each with potentially independent release cycle and
independently version-controled.

For example our typical project naturaly breaks onto three pieces Persistent
Domain Object Model, Business logic and various helper classes, and one or
more UIs. The key reason is that Object Model is typically more stable API
with longer release cycle. It is more "public" and "higher commitment to
outside world" code where UIs can be multiple and changed/released more
often. Business logic often gets hitched to either Object Model project or
UI project depending on how generic it is.
In our projects, Object model and UIs are almost always made into separate
modules with different release cycles.
It bundled into JARs and UI folks (even if he is the same guy) asked to
develop against this "deployed" version of object model

Everyone - what are your approach to similar cases?

Thanks

Alex

"Serge Baranov" <serge@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:5568088.1193480097521.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

Do you count just startup time or also opening the project? Then it would
heavily depend on the size of your project, on the performance of you hard
disk and so on.

>

For me IDEA itself starts in about 3-5 seconds, project with 40 000
classes opens in about 25 seconds (of course not when you open it for the
first time, since caches generation takes more time).



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I was talking about IDEA project.

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Laptop users (like me): do not forget that usually laptops are equipped
with much slower hard disks compared to the desktop machines. Only very
expensive laptops are with 7200 rpm HDD and with some reasonable amount
of cache, while usual laptops come with 4500/5400 rpm with no or little
cache HDD, older with ATA, newer with SATA, but still - much slower. And
IDEs like IDEA rely on fast disk access (imho). So when you talk about
"slow", consider your hardware. I do. I see same versions of IDEA
loading the same project twice to three times faster on a desktop PC
with a CPU slower than the one on my laptop, but with a normal desktop
HDD, compared to my archaic 4500rpm/nocache/ slow 2.5" disk.


My $0.02 with greetings :)
George

Jason Rentovich wrote:

Startup time for IDEA is something awful. In general its not a huge issue, but thats mostly just because I'm used to it.

I've been using IDEA since 3.x, and load time has always been something a bit longer than a minute. This is on a series of laptops and Linux/Windows OSes over the years. Somethings helped it go faster (newer laptop, newer JVMs), Somethings make it go slower (newer IDEAs). I've never timed it under 60 seconds.

I guess this is the bane of Java desktop apps. If I ever in my life see IDEA startup in under 30 seconds I may drop dead of shock. I suppose a souped up desktop might make a go at it, but I've never used anything but a laptop for last 10 years.


On my machine anyway, pruning the plugin list made me feel better, but didnt result in a measurable difference in startup time.

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mike-mac:~ mike$ cd Depot/IDEA/
mike-mac:~/Depot/IDEA mike$ find . -name "*.java" | wc
28214 28223 2132209
mike-mac:~/Depot/IDEA mike$ find . -name "*.class" | wc
39869 39871 3942430

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Serge,

What sort of box is this on?

I've never seen IDEA open so quickly - for me on a new
Dell D820 laptop with 7200 RPM disk with lots of room and little fragmentation,
IDEA never opens in less than 20 seconds; and mostly it would take closer to 30.
Then opening a project for the first time in a run of IDEA (I don't mean the first
time a project is opened or a cache needs to be rebuilt - the first time it opens
since restating IDEA) takes 15 seconds for a small project with nothing but java
files in it (around 40 in this test case) and it gets longer for the usual projects with assortment of file types.
I suppose this is due to all the plugins etc, but I've never seen the numbers you're talking about.

I'd be curious to find out what plugins feature high on the time usage at startup list...

Cheers,

Bonny

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You can provide a CPU snapshot of IDEA startup: http://support.jetbrains.com/kb/entry.jspa?categoryID=5&externalID=192 .

-agentlib:yjpagent=sampling option will start CPU profiling on IDEA startup. Press Capture CPU Snapshot button and the snapshot will be saved. Don't do anything else, just start IDEA without opening a project, capture snapshot, close IDEA.

> What sort of box is this on?
Intel Core Quad 6600, SATA RAID 0, 8GB RAM. Startup time on machines with lower specs such as Pentium D and 2GB RAM is almost the same.

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Serge,

I've started IDEA with the appropriate switch and immediately closed it. I did not
need to press the capture button and a snapshot was created in any case.
I've uploaded the file to the server as 'bonnyr.2007-10-29-shutdown.zip'

Hope this helps.

Cheers,


Bonny

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Serge,

I have been to quick to press the send button - I cannot upload the file to the
usual address - ftp://ftp.intellij.net/.uploads ?

Cheers,

Bonny

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Your FTP client is probably too smart, try using a command line client.

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idea opens within 30 seconds at home (tons of plugins, 4k source files)
at work, it needs minutes (most likely because of a slow hard drive), but even if it would take 10 minutes, i don't see a problem here - how often do you restart idea? i'm doing it one per week (once per new eap)

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The snapshots you provided took only 14 seconds for startup and shutdown.

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Serge,

That is correct, but it also is a restart of IDEA as soon as it was closed. If I do this
after a Windows goes to standby or after a long time using other memory consuming
applications, It takes closer to 30 seconds, as was the case this morning (see
the bonnyr-2007-10-31-shutdown.snapshot.zip I've uploaded)

Having said that, is 14 a reasonable time in your view for a machine with my configuration?

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Serge,

That is correct, but it also is a restart of IDEA as soon as it was closed. If I do this
after a Windows goes to standby or after a long time using other memory consuming
applications, It takes closer to 30 seconds, as was the case this morning (see
the bonnyr-2007-10-31-shutdown.snapshot.zip I've uploaded)

Having said that, is 14 seconds a reasonable time in your view for a machine with my configuration
(with less than the default set of plugins - I've disabled some I
don't need)? Are there any benchmarks or indicators to show some scaling
of this?


Cheers,

Bonny

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The main reasons for slow startup:
- not enough free memory (all is taken by other applications, heavy swapping)
- slow fragmented hard drive. Defragmentation may result in a huge performance gain, we were very surprised when we found it on our machines:
http://blogs.jetbrains.com/idea/2006/12/boosting-intellij-idea-performance-on-windows-systems/

Uploaded bonnyr-2007-10-31-shutdown.zip is damaged, please upload again.

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Serge,

The main reasons for slow startup:
- not enough free memory (all is taken by other
applications, heavy swapping)

The box has 4GB RAM, of which 3.25GB are usable (32Bit WinXP) and
about 1.5GB of it are free. So I do not think it's this.

- slow fragmented hard drive. Defragmentation may
result in a huge performance gain, we were very
surprised when we found it on our machines:
http://blogs.jetbrains.com/idea/2006/12/boosting-intel
lij-idea-performance-on-windows-systems/

The disk should be fairly good as this is a relatively new installation of WinXP
(around 4 weeks with not a lot of software installed).

Uploaded bonnyr-2007-10-31-shutdown.zip is damaged,
please upload again.

- done

Bonny

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zip is still damaged. Ensure that you can unpack it yourself before uploading. Also check that your ftp client is uploading in binary mode.

Do you have any antiviral monitors running?

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Do you count just startup time or also opening the
project? Then it would heavily depend on the size of
your project, on the performance of you hard disk and
so on.


I was counting startup + project open. Since I work on the same project day after day, opening IDEA without a project is something i never do. For grins, I tested it on my laptop and IDEA opens in about 20 seconds, the rest is the project. Project size seems to make little difference, but the biggest project i have has only about 500 classes.

--

It seems I've started something of a bash thread - I didn't mean too. I'm on a laptop, so I do have to wait for it to open all the time - can't keep it running like i would on a desktop. But even so, I really don't mind it. I've gotten kinda used to it.

Sometimes I even do ++PrintCompilation during idea startup just to watch the magic!.. uhh.. I need to get out more....

Of course IDEA is going to have widely varying start times depending on hardware, my point is only an anecdote about my own personal experiences, bounded by whatever laptop hardware my employer has seen fit to keep me working on through the years.

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Serge,

I've checked the file before uploading and it was fine and yes, I've uploaded it in
binary mode.

I do have an anti viris software running (TrendMicro Office Scan) which is a company policy,
not a personal choice and it could certainly have an impact, although I've done
my best to exclude IDEA related files as well as project directories and files.

Cheers,

Bonny

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Your snapshot shows 20 seconds CPU time and 38 seconds total uptime. There is nothing suspicious in it. I've compared with my snapshot which shows 16 seconds of CPU time for startup and shutdown and 12 seconds total time.

Your snapshot shows 82 garbage collections (though taking only 1 sec). Mine has only 4 collections.

My JVM options are:

-Xms256m
-Xmx1024m
-XX:MaxPermSize=256m

Most likely it's related to the file system performance, as it's very critical for IDEA. Antiviral tools install drivers which intercept every file system operation and make it even slower. I had bad experience with Symantec in this regard. Even when disabled it slowed down operations on small files so that deletion of 3000 files took half an hour. Disabling antivirus and stopping its services didn't help! Only complete uninstall fixed the problem and I was able to delete those files in several seconds. I understand that it's not an option for you.

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Serge,

Thanks for taking the time on this. It's not that I need to open IDEA many times
a day (or a week) so that is probably an academic issue. I do find that once
I open IDEA and work with my project IDEA is plenty fast enough.

I'll try your JVM settings which a slightly more generous than mine.

As for the AV software, well, it's a whole other story but the bottom line is I cannot
remove it.

Thanks again,

Bonny

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