18 comments

One other thing that should be mentioned. Sixth and Red River is taking active steps to avoid implementing anything that JetBrains is planning on adding directly to IDEA. In those cases where JetBrains does implement something soon after we do, we will release an equivalent amount of additional functionality as a free upgrade to existing subscribers. In particular, if JetBrains publicly releases an "Invert Boolean" refactoring, Sixth and Red River will release a 1.1 version of Refactor-J with an compensating additional refactoring (probably "Make Class Inner" or "Pull Up/Down Javadoc", since those always annoys me by their absence).

At Sixth and Red River Software, we are looking to augment IntelliJ IDEA, not compete with it.

Sixth and Red River Software
"Code with Grace and Verve"

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At Sixth and Red River Software, we are looking to augment IntelliJ IDEA, not compete with it.


So do we. You know.

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Sixth and Red River Software <no_mail@jetbrains.com> wrote:

At Sixth and Red River Software, we are looking to augment IntelliJ IDEA,
not compete with it.


That's really fun. With you not telling us who you are and developing
plug in products for IDEA. It kind of reminds me of the good old EAP
days(TM)... Good luck to you, guys!

"Code with Grace and Verve"


So now we can develop with pleasure, grace and verve? Oh, by the way --
did you ever think of a "Guess who we are competition and get a free
license?" Can I bribe you with some tasty donuts?

Best,

Dirk Dittert

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I already know who Sixth and Red River Software are. The mysterious poster slipped up the other day, posting as SRRS but signed it at the bottom as Dave Griffith ;)

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Gordon Tyler wrote:

I already know who Sixth and Red River Software are. The mysterious poster slipped up the other day, posting as SRRS but signed it at the bottom as Dave Griffith ;)


LOL, yeah :) It was more than obvious anyway.

The remaining question however is: Who is the rest of "we" or does Dave G. have a split
personality? ;)

Sascha

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Sascha Weinreuter <sascha.weinreuter@NOSPAM-cit.de> wrote:

The remaining question however is: Who is the rest of "we" or does Dave G.
have a split personality? ;)


Does anyone know where Robert has been lately? The name of that company
always makes me think of his name. Don't really know why, though.

Best,

Dirk Dittert

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Robert Seifr (sp?) => RS
Sixth and Red River Software => SRRS

I suppose that could trigger an association.

My guess is that a couple of the people heavily involved in writing refactoring/intention/inspection plugins formed the company. I really don't understand all the secrecy though. Heck, knowing it's Dave Griffith and co. would give them a heap of "street cred". I don't know why they don't want to bank on that.

Right now, they're an unknown company who spammed my inbox :P

Ciao,
Gordon

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I think now is a good time to shed the light to some of the principles of the program. The Companions program we are implementing is a bit different from a regular commercial plugin approach. We want to ensure that the products not only augment IntelliJ IDEA, but also go in line with the overall experience. You have to realize, not every product can get there, it is a commercial partnership approach and we are serious about it. So we will be communicating a lot to our Companion companies and decide what we do and how we go about planning and implementing features, so that all of us have maximum satisfaction; be it a pricing, sales and marketing strategy, integrated customer support or using other infrastructure facilities. We want our users, ourselves included, to have the best possible experience after all. And we are very much excited about this program, I hope you will too, and it's a pleasure to have Sixth and Red River Software to be the "founding" companion :)

Best regards,
Eugene Belyaev
President, CTO
JetBrains, http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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I'm still scratching my head about the Demetra roadmap,
and now this Sixth and Red River Software partnership has
got me really confused.

Refactoring is the defining feature of IntelliJ. I find it
very odd that so little on refactoring is in Demetra
roadmap, but SRRS already has Refactor-J and Refactor-X
which has some of the refactoring features users have asked
for.

I can see having a javascript inspection addon might make
sense, although I would much rather have it part of the
product by default. Or if somebody wants to create a
language plugin for C++ or Ruby or some language not part
of Jetbrains core java plus web related languages.

But now that JetBrains says they don't want to do anything
SRRS is doing, it makes me wonder, what message does that
send to JetBrains engineers? Maybe that they don't need to
worry Jira requests related to java refactoring or xml
refactoring or jsp refactoring, etc. because SRRS is
working on that in Refactor-J 2.0 or Refactor-X 2.0 , etc.
And what does this mean for users? Should all Jira request
past and future related to refactoring be filed against
Refactor-J?

This all seems related to Demetra's focus on teamware,
collaboration, build servers, project servers, inspection
servers, etc. and lack of focus on core IntelliJ features,
e.g. refactoring.

Does Jetbrains think it's not good enough to be the best
@#$% java (and related language) editor on the planet? If
they don't add all this teamware crud, then the heathen
ungodly Barbarian horde known as Eclipse will swallow them
whole?

I don't see it that way. If IDEA kept improving editor,
refactoring, formatting, inspections, vcs, etc. for java
plus other web languages plus special packages like JSF,
Spring, etc. that seems like a release unto itself. That
plus making it faster than spit. Speed kills.

I have no problem with SRSS doing this and if this is in
fact Dave G., aka Simple Monster, I am happy if he can make
some $$ from his godlike abilities. (The inspections in 5.0
were the only exciting feature for me. The JSP/javascript
support was bittersweet due incompleteness and bugs and
performance issues.) I just wish some other business
arrangement was reached, e.g. just hire Simple Monster and
pay him as if he was a team of ten.





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Well if they hire him and raise price of IDEA then many people will complain too that they want have cheaper Idea without refactoring they don't use and JS inspections stuff. So it is not good idea too. But I was thinking that JB may solve problem but hiring Bas or Dave and integrate at least mature and finished parts of SRRS plugins into core.
Let's look at price and reaction after teamware JSF etc adding in 6.0, this features not widely used (yet?) and battle will be long :)

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Hi Eugene,
Why YourKit (and JNIWrapper?) not participants of this program? You won't plan implement profiler in near future and Eclipse and Netbeans has favorite or build in profilers. Also at http://www.teamdev.com/products.html section "Products in Development" mentioned about "JSF Components" it may be good to include them into companions too cause you will add JSF support and editor and I'm filling that products of TeamDev may be fit to Idea too.

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"I'm feeling" sorry for misspel.

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Dave has always had a split personality, like the good Doctor and Mr. Hyde... Dave Griffith and the Simple Monster!! :)

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You will be seeing more products added soon.

Eugene

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what message does that send to JetBrains engineers?

It should send the message that someone believes in them enough to bet their future on their work. It should send the message that there are engineers out there who get up every morning eager to play in the playground they built. It should send them the message that they have inspired some very sharp guys to take the greatness they have built and try to build something even greater.

It should send them the message that they are the best in the business, and that they can beat Eclipse through sheer technological mastery and deep understanding of their user's needs. No one can code everything. That's why you form alliances. If they're willing to keep trying, Sixth and Red River is willing to help out.

Sixth and Red River Software
"Code with Grace and Verve"

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Hello Alex,

A> I'm still scratching my head about the Demetra roadmap, and now this
A> Sixth and Red River Software partnership has got me really confused.
A>

I think it makes perfect sense, actually. Here are some of the aspects I
think we'll all benefit from:
- smaller -> quicker: IDEA reached a point where (very) small releases are
not feasible anymore. These "satellite" guys will be able to move much faster,
so instead of waiting a year for a release (or be forced to use an EAP version,
which could bring its own problems into the picture) one would be able to
have their wishes fulfilled "overnight".
- more complete open API. While people kept requesting enhancements to the
open API in the forums, I think a partnership like this will allow these
guys to send clear messages to JetBrains (and to have them answered promptly
as well).
- pay only for the additional features you need: while JSF looks cool to
you, I might not care about it. For you, inspections were the thrill in 5.0,
for somebody else, probably the CSS stuff (BTW, IG is, in fact, one such
addition, albeit free and shipped with IDEA). IDEA has a lot of functionality
to cover all the basics, if somebody really needs more power in a certain
domain they can get some from these specialized efforts.

And, since JetBrains pledged to "guarantee" that the quality of this plugins
is on par with IDEA's, one can be sure they won't waste their money.

What's not to like?

Best,
Andrei


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"Andrei Oprea" <andrei.oprea@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:4ea71dcdd5ace8c7c9f5cefbd4a8@news.intellij.net...

Hello Alex,

>

A> I'm still scratching my head about the Demetra roadmap,

and now this

A> Sixth and Red River Software partnership has got me

really confused.

A>

>

I think it makes perfect sense, actually.


]]>

Totally agree will all your arguments. I suggested a similar
approach quite a while ago: modularize IDEA, sell base
version for lower price, and then sell addons/plugins.
Everyone is happy. Those who do not need additional
functionality pay less. Those who need it, buy only modules
they need. Those who wrote plugins get paid.

Apparently, Jetbrains figured that there is no point to pull
out existing modules, especially considering that they might
depend on the base code and the code depends on them (that
is, these modules are not exactly plugins). Instead, they
decided to outsorce new developement at the same time
cleaning up and documenting plugin API.

Those who are known for prior quality work are being
advertised through Jetbrains. They, in fact, are affiliates,
kind of Jetbrains consultants, taking advantage of insider
knowledge. Those who are not as trusted , can deliver
their plugins independently. Later, then might assure closer
partnership as well.

This is a great model, Jetbrains.

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I like the idea.

JeBrains can concentrate on the core (which I think may have suffered a little in Verison 5.0), and third parties can make money by building extensions, without bloating the core.

For the folk crying out for AspectJ or Ruby support in IDEA; this might be the best chance of getting it, now that someone can actually make money doing it.

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