31 comments

Alexey Efimov wrote:

Although approximate? :)


Please, tell us...

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If JetBrains keep silence, i'll try to make some forecast :)

1. Well first one maybe TMate? :)
2. Second is maybe AspectsJ, finally? :)
3. ANT debuger?
4. I18N? :)
5. GUI Designer with support of standard Layout Managers and more tasty cookies? :)
6. IDETalk inlined for Team Development? :)
7. Stability EL in JSP? ;)

0

I seriously hope that JEE5 (at least the current packaging problems and
EJB3 as a starting point) will be (one of) the first feature(s) to
appear in Demetra.
This is why I'd like to have some official statement (if not for Demetra
at least about packaging problems) regarding the roadmap since these
problems plague us since quite a while and I have to make a decision...

regards,

Messi

Alexey Efimov wrote:

If JetBrains keep silence, i'll try to make some forecast :)

1. Well first one maybe TMate? :)
2. Second is maybe AspectsJ, finally? :)
3. ANT debuger?
4. I18N? :)
5. GUI Designer with support of standard Layout Managers and more tasty cookies? :)
6. IDETalk inlined for Team Development? :)
7. Stability EL in JSP? ;)

0

Please keep patience yet a bit. It's coming, really...

-


Maxim Shafirov
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


0

1. Well first one maybe TMate? :)


You mean, bundle TMate with IDEA? I seriously doubt that. TMate is a superb plugin, really worth the extra USD 60 Alexander Kitaev is currently charging for it.

2. Second is maybe AspectsJ, finally? :)


Oh, not that again...

3. ANT debuger?


That would rock. Is there any IDE out there that can do this?

4. I18N? :)


What exactly do you mean? I quite like the current support for i18n in IDEA, and all I could ask for is a slightly improved message bundle editor.

If you mean, internationalization of IDEA itself, I'm all for it. I would love to see IDEA's interface and documentation in in my native language (and would promptly volunteer as a translator).

5. GUI Designer with support of standard Layout
Managers and more tasty cookies? :)


Matisse (NaturalLayoutManager, actually) is going to be big. It would be nice to see IDEA supporting it.

6. IDETalk inlined for Team Development? :)


Actually, I'd go a little furter. What I would really kill for is something like SubEthaEdit for IDEA.

7. Stability EL in JSP? ;)


8. Give the user more options about JSP validation. HTML and EL validation is all nice and dandy, but I really wanted a way to turn OFF these validations.

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(and would promptly volunteer as a translator).

YOU said that! :))

What I would really kill for is something like SubEthaEdit for IDEA.

Do you pair-programming remotely a lot? Really, we're very interested in
those who'll be able to testdrive useability aspects of the similar software.


-


Maxim Shafirov
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) wrote:

Do you pair-programming remotely a lot? Really, we're very interested in
those who'll be able to testdrive useability aspects of the similar
software.


Not so much pair-programming, but being able to point at code and
discuss it and modify one or the other's source while not being in the
same room would be useful.

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://www.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: (416) 933-5046 | Fax: (416) 933-5001

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Hello Messi,

M> I seriously hope that JEE5 (at least the current packaging problems and
M> EJB3 as a starting point) will be (one of) the first feature(s) to
M> appear in Demetra.

The possibility to deploy EJB applications without deployment descriptors
will be released before Demetra, in IDEA 5.0.3 / 5.1 (we haven't yet decided
on the version number of that release yet).

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


0

Hello Maxim,

>> (and would promptly volunteer as a translator).
>>
MS> YOU said that! :))
MS>
>> What I would really kill for is something like SubEthaEdit for IDEA.
>>
MS> Do you pair-programming remotely a lot? Really, we're very
MS> interested in those who'll be able to testdrive useability aspects
MS> of the similar software.

Put me on that list. I'd love to do it with IDEA. I don't do code sharing
enough because I don't really like anything out there thoroughly enough to
give me pairing and idea-like features.

R


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Hello Alexey,

AE> 4. I18N? :)

I18N of the IDEA UI, along with much improved I18N support functionality
in IDEA itself, will be released as part of IDEA 5.0.3 / 5.1, not Demetra.

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


0

Do you pair-programming remotely a lot? Really, we're very interested in
those who'll be able to testdrive useability aspects of the similar
software.

I work remotely and pair-programming is almost impossible with anything that
I've seen. If you guys pull that off... well, let's just say you'll have
plenty of doughnuts for a while.

"Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains)" <max@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c8a8a1bf158d58c79433b267c9c7@news.jetbrains.com...
>> (and would promptly volunteer as a translator).

YOU said that! :))

>
>> What I would really kill for is something like SubEthaEdit for IDEA.

Do you pair-programming remotely a lot? Really, we're very interested in
those who'll be able to testdrive useability aspects of the similar
software.

>

-------------------
Maxim Shafirov
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>



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Taht's great to hear (read ;) )... will the packaging problems I
described (see thread "IDEA Roadmap (esp. Java EE 5)" and my e-mail
thread with Serge Baranov) be "fully" solved (i.e. all bugs/issues
fixed) or only "deployment w/o DD" or which "subset" respectively?
I'm very eager to try these features (and give feedback ;) )!

kind regards,

Messi

Dmitry Jemerov (JetBrains) wrote:

Hello Messi,

M> I seriously hope that JEE5 (at least the current packaging problems and
M> EJB3 as a starting point) will be (one of) the first feature(s) to
M> appear in Demetra.

The possibility to deploy EJB applications without deployment
descriptors will be released before Demetra, in IDEA 5.0.3 / 5.1 (we
haven't yet decided on the version number of that release yet).

0

I wonder, is this really a much-requested feature and worth throwing
resources at? Just ask since my native tongue is german, yet I almost
exclusively use english software (even when localized versions exist)
since i18n/l10n often introduces bugs (mainly UI glitches) and
patches/updates are often first available for english versions (in most
cases, the "original" software); since I guess almost all (Java)
software developers speak english well (or how do you read the JDK docs
otherwise?) is it really worth the effort to i18n/localize an IDE??

regards,

Messi

Dmitry Jemerov (JetBrains) wrote:

Hello Alexey,

AE> 4. I18N? :)

I18N of the IDEA UI, along with much improved I18N support functionality
in IDEA itself, will be released as part of IDEA 5.0.3 / 5.1, not Demetra.

0

Hello Messi,

M> I wonder, is this really a much-requested feature and worth throwing
M> resources at? Just ask since my native tongue is german, yet I almost
M> exclusively use english software (even when localized versions exist)
M> since i18n/l10n often introduces bugs (mainly UI glitches) and
M> patches/updates are often first available for english versions (in
M> most cases, the "original" software); since I guess almost all (Java)
M> software developers speak english well (or how do you read the JDK
M> docs otherwise?) is it really worth the effort to i18n/localize an
M> IDE??

Yes, it is. Not for European markets, but rather for Asian ones.
Just look at the languages in which the JDK documentation is available.

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


0

5.1 is better. 5.0.x denotes something related to bug fixes, but 5.1
shows added functionality. Also makes it easier for people to know
which version supports EJB. Which minor point release was it? 5.0.2 or
5.0.4 or just 5.1.

Dmitry Jemerov (JetBrains) wrote:

Hello Messi,

>

M> I seriously hope that JEE5 (at least the current packaging problems
and
M> EJB3 as a starting point) will be (one of) the first feature(s) to
M> appear in Demetra.

>

The possibility to deploy EJB applications without deployment
descriptors will be released before Demetra, in IDEA 5.0.3 / 5.1 (we
haven't yet decided on the version number of that release yet).

>

0

(and would promptly volunteer as a translator).

YOU said that! :))


And I mean it. I love IDEA, and if there is anything I can do to increase it's adoption, specially in my workplace (I'm still trying to convince upper management to buy licenses for the rest of my team), I would be glad to do.

Do you pair-programming remotely a lot? Really, we're
very interested in those who'll be able to testdrive
useability aspects of the similar software.


I wouldn't call that "pair programming", but I exchange lots of instant messages with co-workers (who are just across the room, or downstairs) telling them to open a file, edit certain classes and so on. I guess something like SubEthaEdit would make this kind of conversations a lot more fluid (i.e, I could open the file and show the co-worker what I mean, instead of trying to convey it thru instant messages).

Then there's the good'ol chicken-and-egg problem: I guess people will start to use remote pair programming a lot more once a major tool like IDEA makes it easy and seamless to do.

0

>> I wonder, is this really a much-requested feature
>> and worth throwing resources at?

Yes, it is. Not for European markets, but rather for
Asian ones. Just look at the languages in which the JDK
documentation is available.


Not to mention it's also a very nice thing to have in demonstrations/feature charts, if you're targeting non-english-speaking countries.

My native tongue is Portuguese, and most of my coworkers don't really speak english -- they do know enough to use our everyday tools, but:

1) They don't explore the tool. They use what I've shown them, and that's it, because...

2) They don't read the documentation. It's one thing to memorize simple words (button labels, menu items), and a totally different thing to read the full documentation.

I'm sure they would be a lot more happy (and hopefully, productive) if everything was shown in Portuguese.

I know, it sounds awkward, and you're probably asking "How can a guy be a programmer without proper knowledge of the english language? I mean, all programming languages use english words!". I speak english since I was a little kid, and when I started working "for real", I asked this same question to myself. I don't know how, but there are many programmers here who couldn't write more than a few sentences in english, but don't have any trouble with programming.

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>>3. ANT debuger?


That would rock. Is there any IDE out there that can do this?


I believe, I've read, Eclipse could debug ANT tasks.

Tom

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Completely agree, at least for the German localization.

Tom

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Thomas Singer wrote:
>>> 3. ANT debuger?
>>
>>
>> That would rock. Is there any IDE out there that can do this?


I believe, I've read, Eclipse could debug ANT tasks.

Tom


As well as Netbeans 5 I think... but I'd rather like to focus IDEA on my
"real" (Java) development... on the other hand, it may be impossible to
use NB or Eclipse just to debug the ant script (I don't know whether
they require that the ant script be from their project structure).

regards,

Messi

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Thomas Singer wrote:
>>> 3. ANT debuger?
>>
>>
>> That would rock. Is there any IDE out there that can do this?


I believe, I've read, Eclipse could debug ANT tasks.

Tom


While it is not actually a debugger, the Ant Visualizer plugin can help debug ant scripts.

If you select a target in the tree, right-click and select Execute, it follows the
execution, highlighting the currently active target live in the tree and shows progress.

It's not perfect, but it does help.

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I'll second this. Though IDETalk provides at least the code pointer functionality. I'd add console output sharing as well. You could share a bunch of stuff, including junit output, inspections/metrics output...

But subethaedit style multiple (not just pair) editing would be very cool. Unfortunately, I'm a lone idea user here, so I wouldn't be able to help testing...

Other features I'd love:

1. Spring/IOC framework integration. There's a spring plugin being written, but it'd be nice to have this in the core. I believe there are some tracker requests for this.

2. AspectJ 5.0 (ducks and runs). ;o) Or at least the bare minimum for someone else to write a plugin. IoC + Aspects + Annotations, the new coding paradigm. Whatever that means.

3. Ruby as a language. Ruby + refactoring would make me so happy.

Ah, I love the beginning of a release, when we can make ridiculous requests. ;o) Flame away...

--pete

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Funnily enough, although I don't really think these are "sensible" things for IDEA 6, they are all things that would appeal to me, too.

Maybe IDEA 10? In the meantime, bring on the usability improvements and bug fixes!

John Hurst
Wellington, New Zealand

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I agree, but I see those usability and bug fixes as 5.x releases, and these as major items for 6. That still prob won't make it in. ;o)

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Alexey Efimov <no_mail@jetbrains.com> wrote:

If JetBrains keep silence, i'll try to make some forecast :)


I'll join you on this one.

There's a couple of things that I'd like to see for IDEA. I haven't used
it that much lately and therefore am not 100% sure where feature x or
feature y is hiding.

My points are mainly UI issues. Please feel free to comment on them.
I'll file JIRA issues for them depending on discussion feedback.

1. Settings
-


The settings dialog provides 29 options on the first level. This is
quite a lot, especially for first time users. However, functionaly is
scattered between these 29 main categories. For example, settings
related to import statements can be found in:
- Editor Optimize imports on the fly
- Editor Add unambiguous imports on the fly
- Editor Collapse by default Imports
- Global/Project Code Style After imports
- many more places

I don't want to heat up that "old settings vs. new settings" disucussion
again.

I imagine, that it is difficult for new users to find where they can set
which option. I'd suggest something like System Preferences implemented
by Apple for OS X: it adds a search field that lets you search for
things that you like to change the settings for. In my example, I'd
enter "import" or "import statement" and it would highlight all those
main categories that allow me to change settings related to my query.

2. Settings -> Key map
-


I guess there's hardly a key that is not mapped to something in IDEA. It
is already nicely grouped into categories. I'd like to suggest a "Find
action for keyboard shortcut" button that expands all nodes in the tree
that were assigned a particular keyboard shortcut. That should make
configuring keymaps even faster/easier.

3. Productivity Guide
-


The Productivity guide is something I really find annoying. It was not
until today that I realized that there is a really nice settings dialog
that allows me to configure when they are supposed to appear.

Why do I configure "Show tool window bars" in Settings->Apperance and
the productivity guide in Help->Productivity Guide?

Suggestion: Also add this configuration option to the settings dialog
and make sure that the first productivity guide the users ever sees is
how it can be configured.

Another oddity that I saw on my installation:
Basic code completion was shown 2979 times
Syntax aware selection was shown 892 times
Quick JavaDoc popup 181 times
Go to class 149 times
Class name completion 111 times
Go to declaration 89 times
Finish lookup by special... 88 times
Replace By when using lookup 83 times
Rename 69 times
Comment/Uncomment current line 67 times
Override/Implement methods 63 times
Complete statements 29 times
Variable name completion 24 times
Speed search in trees 14 times
Surround statements with 11 times
Smart type completion 4 times
Go to symbol 3 times
Camel prefixes in code completion 2 times
Browse external Javadoc once
Using wildcards in go to class... once
Recent files popup once
Comment/Uncomment block once

All others (>20) were never shown. Is this only my installation that has
a broken random number generator or is there some kind of distribution
that I am not aware of?

Also: There should be a lot more hints in the Productivity Guide. I
really would like IDEA to monitor what I am doing and schedule those
activites that I frequently use the mouse for as hint.

It is interesting that I can uncheck "Show productivity hints during
startup or other lengthy processes" but have Help->Tip of the Day->[X]
Show Tips on startup checked at the same time.

I hope that other people can also contribute to this thread. Please
remember, I'd like this to focus on usability issues, which are
especially bad for new users!

Best,

Dirk Dittert

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Dirk Dittert wrote:

Camel prefixes in code completion 2 times
Browse external Javadoc once
Using wildcards in go to class... once
Recent files popup once
Comment/Uncomment block once

All others (>20) were never shown. Is this only my installation that has
a broken random number generator or is there some kind of distribution
that I am not aware of?


I think the table you're talking about counts how many times you use the
feature, not how many times that hint was shown.

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Wow that's funny...I never noticed there was a Productivity Guide and I thought I used almost every feature of IntelliJ. :)

After looking at it, it has some bugs in it. There's several things in there that it has marked as "Never Used" when I have in fact use them. I even used them, went back to the Productivity Guide and it still said I didn't use it. shrugs

Anything related to...

Ctrl-Shift-I
Ctrl-Q, Ctrl-P
Ctrl-Alt-V

doesn't appear to get counted.

Anyway, you learn something new about IDEA every day. :)

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Keith Lea <keith@cs.oswego.edu> wrote:

I think the table you're talking about counts how many times you use the
feature, not how many times that hint was shown.


You're right.

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I wonder how you missed the Productivity Guide. Don't you see it every time you
start up, compile, etc?

Marc Stock wrote:

Wow that's funny...I never noticed there was a Productivity Guide and I thought I used almost every feature of IntelliJ. :)

After looking at it, it has some bugs in it. There's several things in there that it has marked as "Never Used" when I have in fact use them. I even used them, went back to the Productivity Guide and it still said I didn't use it. shrugs

Anything related to...

Ctrl-Shift-I
Ctrl-Q, Ctrl-P
Ctrl-Alt-V

doesn't appear to get counted.

Anyway, you learn something new about IDEA every day. :)


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Something I noticed today that I think JB ought to consider: I downloaded
the new version of YourKit, and I just love that interface. It even looks
great on OSX, it seems so light weight and the app responds really well overall.

Would it be possible to move IDEA's interface in that direction? Or rather
is this something to even consider?

One other thing I noticed is that they have a little SUBTLE hint icon which
pops up in the bottom right corner of the main frame, click on that and you
get clues on things you can do. I like that.

R


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