Idea is getting of age

It has its rough edges, the UI is no longer polished, usability is below par and getting worse (still above its competitors, but far from perfect).
The issues I name here are just examples and none is critical by itself, still I have only worked an hour with Idea today, and just put down the issues I noticed in that short period of time.
What I really want is to urge JetBrains to take it more seriously themselves and maybe take a step back and try to get a fresh impression.
All of us long-term Idea users have come to live with a lot of oddities without ever noticing. Yet having significantly less of these quirks than other applications was what made Idea really stand out.
And please finish each feature in the same release that introduces it, from my point of view the EAP is there to help you with it. (E.g. the module feature was introduced in 4.0, right? It will only become usable with 5.0, e.g. taking module dependencies into account when refactoring, give warning when a required path variable isn't set.

  • Javadoc popup cannot be resized. How hard can that be? The issue was in the old tracker for ages.

  • The title controls to float/dock a view have always irritated me. What the heck is the difference between "float", "undock" and "unpin"? Sounds all the same to me: Somehow the view is less fixed afterwards. The icons change and even the number of buttons change wildly when I click on a button.

As a consequence I usually just click more or less randomly until the result is what I wanted.
Note: Off course I do understand the behaviour and controls if I think about it. But hey, a good UI should be usable without making me explicitly think about its principles.
===> I propose three radio buttons "fixed", "sliding", "floating" (with icons instead the usual dot of course), plus a fourth, visually separated 'hide' action button.
Nice and clean: Three states -> three buttons. The window is always in a single state, i.e. a single button is selected. No changing of icons or buttons.

  • When somebody in our team adds a new module to our project and forgets to shout and tell about it, everybody in the team has a lot of fun fixing their local copy of the project after doing a cvs update and reopening the project. I have to quit idea, get a clean copy of the project file from CVS, check out the new module on a command line, and restart idea to reload the project.

===> If a module that is referenced in a project file is locally missing, offer to check it out from VCS before continuing the project load.

  • After I create a new project I stare at a blank screen, causing a "what am I supposed to do now?"-feeling.

===> Idea should instead open the project tree view by default.

  • When I resized a file dialog (e.g. open project), it will have the default size again when it next opens.

  • The editor's column selection features feels half-finished. (Search in Jira, e.g. selection is lost completely when toggling between column and regular modes.)

  • There are a number of places where I cannot type in or paste from clipboard a file system path, but are forced to click my way through a tree (e.g. check out location or editing a path variable).

===> The file system tree should always be accompanied with an editable text field.

  • Even worse when I have to select the remote folder in a check out: It's not possible type in the folder name, but I have to browse (e.g. trying to check out a project from java.net requires a lot of patience because the server is slow and there is no way of directly typing a folder name to check out).

  • I cannot collapse the project tree with a single click. Always takes me much too long to find the node for a specific module.

===> Have a collapse toolbar button.

  • There is a wild mix of labels for the "Search" functionality ("Find" vs. "Search").

  • No close buttons on the tabs. Come on even NetBeans has it nowadays.

  • In a find, even if the next occurence is only three lines below, Idea insists of scrolling the editor buffer, always causing disorientation for a fraction of a second. I have argued that issue before, but even though no other editor I know of has this strange behaviour, JetBrainers insisted that the Idea-way is more usable for me.

  • When hot swapping the message "x classes reloaded" causes the current debugger view to get hidden, interupting my workflow.

  • I often want to get rid of the bottom tabbed pane, but each time I click on the red cross of a tab the previous tab pops up and gets in my way. It's simply not possible with a single click.

  • Some usage scenarious are too heavyweight: I already reported the jdk selection. Here's another one: Editing of path variables. The separate edit dialog is superfluous. Have "Name" and "Value" be inline-editable, have a "..." icon to open a file browser directly in each table row.


It misses the wow factors. Well, this has been discussed before, just my two cents on the subject:
- The IDETalk plugin is an incredible useful and innovative idea. How come that innovation is happening elsewhere?
- No profiler. NetBeans already includes one. Still idea could stand out from the competition by adding a profiler. I for one could even live with a higher price tag.

Ok, to be fair here's a single feature that stands out, making Idea shine: Inspections. Thanks, Dave!

22 comments
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"Stephen Kelvin" <mail@gremlin.info> wrote in message
news:740894.1115975367145.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

  • Javadoc popup cannot be resized. How hard can that be? The issue was in

the old tracker for ages.

+1, definitly

  • The title controls to float/dock a view have always irritated me. What

the heck is the difference between "float", "undock" and "unpin"? Sounds
all the same to me: Somehow the view is less fixed afterwards. The icons
change and even the number of buttons change wildly when I click on a
button.
As a consequence I usually just click more or less randomly until the
result is what I wanted.
Note: Off course I do understand the behaviour and controls if I think
about it. But hey, a good UI should be usable without making me explicitly
think about its principles.
===> I propose three radio buttons "fixed", "sliding", "floating" (with
icons instead the usual dot of course), plus a fourth, visually separated
'hide' action button.
Nice and clean: Three states -> three buttons. The window is always in a
single state, i.e. a single button is selected. No changing of icons or
buttons.

though I get your point, I find that usually I prefer a static
configuration. I don't like having things change my source view size as it
disorients me but I admit your suggestion does make it easier for those who
use it.

  • When somebody in our team adds a new module to our project and forgets

to shout and tell about it, everybody in the team has a lot of fun fixing
their local copy of the project after doing a cvs update and reopening the
project. I have to quit idea, get a clean copy of the project file from
CVS, check out the new module on a command line, and restart idea to
reload the project.
===> If a module that is referenced in a project file is locally missing,
offer to check it out from VCS before continuing the project load.

this happens to us too and is quite irritating as well - perhaps the ipr+iml
files shouldn't be merged? or implement some more sophisticated merging
capabilities so that conflicts will never show up in these files (corrupts
the project...). Further, I see no value in storing iws files in the scm
(we don't) but ipr and iml have to be, and people often modify them (even if
inadvertantly).

>

  • After I create a new project I stare at a blank screen, causing a "what

am I supposed to do now?"-feeling.
===> Idea should instead open the project tree view by default.

+1 - perhaps extend the welcome page shown when there are no projects open
to a project-welcome-page shown when no file is open in the project?

>

  • When I resized a file dialog (e.g. open project), it will have the

default size again when it next opens.

this is true for only some of the dialogs. But for most it is untrue. For
instance, the settings dialogs (and those that they open) usually do retain
their size. This should be handled by the idea core so it would be
transparent to all idea windows.

>

  • The editor's column selection features feels half-finished. (Search in

Jira, e.g. selection is lost completely when toggling between column and
regular modes.)

not acquinted with that feature.

>

  • There are a number of places where I cannot type in or paste from

clipboard a file system path, but are forced to click my way through a
tree (e.g. check out location or editing a path variable).
===> The file system tree should always be accompanied with an editable
text field.

well, it would be nice to have, though not screaming about it...

>

  • Even worse when I have to select the remote folder in a check out: It's

not possible type in the folder name, but I have to browse (e.g. trying to
check out a project from java.net requires a lot of patience because the
server is slow and there is no way of directly typing a folder name to
check out).

+1

>

  • I cannot collapse the project tree with a single click. Always takes me

much too long to find the node for a specific module.
===> Have a collapse toolbar button.

>

  • There is a wild mix of labels for the "Search" functionality ("Find" vs.

"Search").

>

  • No close buttons on the tabs. Come on even NetBeans has it nowadays.

+10000

>

  • In a find, even if the next occurence is only three lines below, Idea

insists of scrolling the editor buffer, always causing disorientation for
a fraction of a second. I have argued that issue before, but even though
no other editor I know of has this strange behaviour, JetBrainers insisted
that the Idea-way is more usable for me.

>

  • When hot swapping the message "x classes reloaded" causes the current

debugger view to get hidden, interupting my workflow.

yeah that irritates me too - this can be shown in the status line or a
baloon tip. Come to think about it - many messages can be converted to
baloon tips, since they are merely informative and shouldn't require the
user to do anything. I love the way Windows does this (the tray icons often
show baloon tips for stuff which disappear after a few seconds).

>

  • I often want to get rid of the bottom tabbed pane, but each time I click

on the red cross of a tab the previous tab pops up and gets in my way.
It's simply not possible with a single click.

I'm not sure I get you here - if you have the debug pane shown, and suddenly
another pane shows - if you click the red X - wouldn't you want to go back
to the pane shown before it?? But I guess this is more of a personal taste
question - so maybe a user preference is in order here.

>

  • Some usage scenarious are too heavyweight: I already reported the jdk

selection. Here's another one: Editing of path variables. The separate
edit dialog is superfluous. Have "Name" and "Value" be inline-editable,
have a "..." icon to open a file browser directly in each table row.

First, I agree. But regarding the path variables - another thing that bugs
me is that I can't see where they are used. For instance, when I define such
a var, and then select a dir in my module Path settings - I don't see that
its being used - I see the resulting path. What I would like to see is
"$MY_VAR/src/..." and not "C:\MyProject\src\..." - or even see them both
somehow...

>

It misses the wow factors. Well, this has been discussed before, just my
two cents on the subject:
- The IDETalk plugin is an incredible useful and innovative idea. How come
that innovation is happening elsewhere?
- No profiler. NetBeans already includes one. Still idea could stand out
from the competition by adding a profiler. I for one could even live with
a higher price tag.

Well, the WOW factor will disappear from anything you use long enough I
recon. But with regards to IDETalk - perhaps it's time it is incorporated
into IDEA. As for the profiler - I for one would prefer NOT to have one
built in, but invest my own money into buying to top-notch profiler and use
a plugin to integrate it. JetBrain's role here is to ensure such a plugin
exists for every major player in the profiling space, imo.

>

Ok, to be fair here's a single feature that stands out, making Idea shine:
Inspections. Thanks, Dave!

well, enough said on that area - definitly shining here... :)

Cheers,
Arik Kfir.


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  • When somebody in our team adds a new module to our project and forgets to

shout and tell about it, everybody in the team has a lot of fun fixing their
local copy of the project after doing a cvs update and reopening the project.
I have to quit idea, get a clean copy of the project file from CVS, check out
the new module on a command line, and restart idea to reload the project.
===> If a module that is referenced in a project file is locally missing,
offer to check it out from VCS before continuing the project load.


Oh man yeah. Amen to that one! Very very annoying and perhaps the one
thing that took me the longest to get my team of new 4.x users to get
used to.

  • After I create a new project I stare at a blank screen, causing a "what am

I supposed to do now?"-feeling.
===> Idea should instead open the project tree view by default.


Yup. Even when it's a project you just opened and you had no files open
before closing out for the day, it opens up and you get a big grey
screen and you're wondering if idea is done or if there's more popup
stuff to come.

  • I cannot collapse the project tree with a single click. Always takes me

much too long to find the node for a specific module.
===> Have a collapse toolbar button.


Yeah not only that I hate that I have to scroll the dang tree left to
right all the time when I expand it to see more classes or files. Very
inconvenient. I don't want to make the project pane bigger because I
like to keep it open while I work (either that one or the new Favorites
window) in either case it's a pain.

  • When hot swapping the message "x classes reloaded" causes the current

debugger view to get hidden, interupting my workflow.


Yes, boy did we complain about this for a while. If there is no error,
make the window go away! I don't have it pinned down, and yet it stays
up and then I can't see and have to minimize before I go back to my app
to debug.

- No profiler. NetBeans already includes one. Still idea could stand out from
the competition by adding a profiler. I for one could even live with a higher
price tag.


YouKit would be the perfect addition to IDEA. I've been using it
heavily for the last week, and it's proven to be worth its price tag.

R

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I think you overstate the case here quite a bit. While it is true that IDEA has UI quirks (what large project doesn't), I don't see any really serious usability issues on your list. That said, some work making sure every dialog has resizing and is correctly memorizing it's size would be welcome, as would a bit of work on naming standardization. I also agree than everything that takes a file/class/package name should be able to take a fully qualified name as well as an unqualified name, whether that be file search or "New Class".

+

  • After I create a new project I stare at a blank screen, causing a "what am I supposed to do now?"-feeling.

===> Idea should instead open the project tree view by default.+

You can do this by selecting "Window/Store current layout as default", but I agree that the "New user" default should be to show the project window (if it's not already).

+

  • No close buttons on the tabs. Come on even NetBeans has it nowadays.+


Documentation/training issue. IDEA has shift-click to close, which is better and doesn't cause clutter. Unfortunately, there's no good way for a new user to know this.

+
It misses the wow factors. Well, this has been discussed before, just my two cents on the subject:
- The IDETalk plugin is an incredible useful and innovative idea. How come that innovation is happening elsewhere?
- No profiler. NetBeans already includes one. Still idea could stand out from the competition by adding a profiler. I for one could even live with a higher price tag.+

I agree that something like IDEATalk would be an excellent "wow!" addition to the core product. I'd take built-in code coverage before built-in profiling, but otherwise agree there. The "wow!" factors for the Irida release look to be in supporting a bunch of web languages, which would be a lot cooler if I actually used any of them beyond XML.

Ok, to be fair here's a single feature that stands out, making Idea shine: Inspections. Thanks, Dave!

Aw, shucks. Just trying to help out.

--Dave Griffith

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"Dave Griffith" <dave.griffith@cnn.com> wrote in message
news:30954429.1116002380742.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
>

+

  • No close buttons on the tabs. Come on even NetBeans has it nowadays.+

>

Documentation/training issue. IDEA has shift-click to close, which is
better and doesn't cause clutter. Unfortunately, there's no good way for
a new user to know this.


I disagree - no tool should "dictate" what is better. Many people prefer the
small "X" button on the tabs - others, prefer to shift-click. There's no
reason to alienate those that prefer to work with the mouse (although I, for
one, do prefer the shift-click ;))


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Hello Dave,

DG> Aw, shucks. Just trying to help out.

Feel the difference :) Implementing PSI and using it...
If i understand Kelvin's words, first is not shine, but second is good one.

Both are hard, significant and shine as well as IDEA!

Thanks!
--
Alexey Efimov, Java Developer
Tops BI
http://www.topsbi.ru


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Hello Arik,

I disagree - no tool should "dictate" what is better. Many people
prefer the small "X" button on the tabs - others, prefer to
shift-click. There's no reason to alienate those that prefer to work
with the mouse (although I, for one, do prefer the shift-click ;))


BTW, there is also Middle Click to close tabs. "X" button will just waste
valuable space.

--
Serge Baranov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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Hi Serge,

Perhaps a tip on the subject on the Startup Tips would be in place here -
since I'm sure many are not aware of this functionality...what do you think?

"Serge Baranov" <serge@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:837a3291d1a6a48c7263bfa6bb360@netserver...

Hello Arik,

>
>> I disagree - no tool should "dictate" what is better. Many people
>> prefer the small "X" button on the tabs - others, prefer to
>> shift-click. There's no reason to alienate those that prefer to work
>> with the mouse (although I, for one, do prefer the shift-click ;))
>

BTW, there is also Middle Click to close tabs. "X" button will just waste
valuable space.

>

--
Serge Baranov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>



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  • Javadoc popup cannot be resized. How hard can that be? The

issue was in the old tracker for ages.

+1

>* There are a number of places where I cannot type in or paste

from clipboard a file system path, but are forced to click my
way through a tree (e.g. check out location or editing a path
variable). ===> The file system tree should always be
accompanied with an editable text field.


+1
The support for selecting files is really poor in IntelliJ.
Besides being able to type in a filename, I would like IntelliJ
to remember let me set a list of favorite directories. (Look at
FileBox eXtender for an example of what I'm talking about).

  • I often want to get rid of the bottom tabbed pane, but each

time I click on the red cross of a tab the previous tab pops up
and gets in my way. It's simply not possible with a single click.


+10

This happens to me all the time. I'll have some panels in the
find tab, messsage tab, run tab, and sometimes other stuff like
inspection tab. If I want to hide them all, I have to click the
hide button repeatedly for each one to make them all go away.

What I would really want is for tab panels to "auto-collapse" if
they are not visible any longer.

For example, if I do an ant build, the output is in the
messages tab. Then, if I do a Find Usages, which displays in
the find tab, the messages tab will not be visible any longer.
But, if you hide the Find tab, then the Messages tab pops up
again.

Since 99.9% I don't want to see it again, so it would be great
if the currently open tab was "auto-collapsed" when another
tab is clicked. That way, you don't have a whole stack of tabs
underneath which will pop out again. Note that I am saying
"auto-collapse" rather than "close", i.e. the content is still
there and if you click back on the tab it will popup again.

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Hello Arik,

Hi Serge,

Perhaps a tip on the subject on the Startup Tips would be in place
here - since I'm sure many are not aware of this functionality...what
do you think?


I completely agree. Could you please file JIRA issue?

--
Serge Baranov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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My setup actually works like this - I have all my windows floating (I put them where I want them) and unpinned. So they pop up when they have content (build) or when I open them (project), and then all go away when I click on the code to start editing again. When they open they don't shuffle my code around, I hate that. If I have a stack of them I can close the current one with Esc, and the one below is revealed. They keep their content, so I can re-open them with Alt-]]> or by clicking on the icon for each window.

Is that not what you want?

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The SimplePowerPack plugin gives you the "Hide all bottom windows"
action that, well, hides all bottom windows at once. This could help you
out some it seems like.

Vince.



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I do agree wholeheartedly. Nearly all the issues you mentioned are something that from time to time make me think "how can it be possible that they focus on such esotheric features when they have as basic issues as this one that aren't fixed?": not resizable popups bother me at least 5 times a day, and the lack of field for pasting a path in file selection windows is something that bothers me everytime I add a library (and one that hits every new idea user). The lack of a profiler in the current state of the market is such a huge evidence that I'm really amazed they're not addressing it in some way. More than that: other ides (codeguide) have done innovations in the debugging area that seem to me really useful, and idea is ignoring them. These days every time a new build comes out I hope that the features added make me "wow" in some way, but when I find lines such as "Support for Properties. If you have the 'Properties' plugin from previous build installed, remove it." the only thing I feel is anger (and desire to find something better).

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Posted - http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-1999

Thanks.

"Serge Baranov" <serge@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:837a3291d1c9a18c726489bf31d20@netserver...

Hello Arik,

>
>> Hi Serge,
>>
>> Perhaps a tip on the subject on the Startup Tips would be in place
>> here - since I'm sure many are not aware of this functionality...what
>> do you think?
>

I completely agree. Could you please file JIRA issue?

>

--
Serge Baranov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>



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perhaps the idea teams needs a couple of weeks at the Bahammas ;)

But seriously - every major version (of any product, btw) has a specific
focus to it - in this EAP, it's J2EE+other languages. One shouldn't "desire
to find something better", as you put it, simply because the current version
has a focus that's not in your line of work (only guessing). I'm sure
previous versions did give you the "wow" effect, and for others it didn't (I
know some guys here didn't understand my enthusiasm about IDEA 4 because it
had lacking J2EE support, which wasn't all that important to me, but very
important to them - as they were coming from JDeveloper).

So all I'm saying is - be open minded and let IDEA "wow" other sectors and
markets as well :)

"Davide Baroncelli" <baroncelli@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:31967337.1116066577022.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
I do agree wholeheartedly. Nearly all the issues you mentioned are something
that from time to time make me think "how can it be possible that they focus
on such esotheric features when they have as basic issues as this one that
aren't fixed?": not resizable popups bother me at least 5 times a day, and
the lack of field for pasting a path in file selection windows is something
that bothers me everytime I add a library (and one that hits every new idea
user). The lack of a profiler in the current state of the market is such a
huge evidence that I'm really amazed they're not addressing it in some way.
More than that: other ides (codeguide) have done innovations in the
debugging area that seem to me really useful, and idea is ignoring them.
These days every time a new build comes out I hope that the features added
make me "wow" in some way, but when I find lines such as "Support for
Properties. If you have the 'Properties' plugin from previous build
installed, remove it." the only thing I feel is anger (and desire to find
something better).


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In article <740894.1115975367145.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>,
mail@gremlin.info says...

All good points that I've encountered. Let me add a few more

- Idea slows to a crawl when encountering large classes say 2500+ lines
or more. This is very perceptible.

- The installation default memory should be greater than the what 16, 64
megs that it starts with.

- The garbage collection of Idea freezes Idea for several minutes at a
time, several times a day.

- How about continous background compiling, like Omnicore?

- How about prompting me to add jars to the classpath when I add
classes?

- How about the choice to make operations like Ant tasks background by
default?




--
-


David H. McCoy


-


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Hello Arik,

>> I disagree - no tool should "dictate" what is better. Many people
>> prefer the small "X" button on the tabs - others, prefer to
>> shift-click. There's no reason to alienate those that prefer to work
>> with the mouse (although I, for one, do prefer the shift-click ;))
>>

BTW, there is also Middle Click to close tabs. "X" button will just
waste valuable space.


How about having a single "X" button somewhere over on the RHS instead (maybe
above the vertical scrollbar) that will close the currently open window?
Similar to the way Firefox does it. I know that won't let you close arbitrary
windows like an "X" on each tab would, but it's a reasonable compromise IMHO.
Most of the time when I want to close a window it's the current one anyway.


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  • I have my middle mouse button mapped to double click in the mouse driver.

  • Shift-Click is better? I disagree: I forces me to use both hands.

  • Regarding waste of space: I propose to have the button visible only for the active tab and make it visible on mouse over for the other tabs.

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Since I'm not a mouse-lover user, I use Ctrl+F4 to close current window
and I assigned Shift+F4 to close all windows but the current and
CtrlAltF4 to close all windows.

When I'm lazy to press 2 or 3 keys at once, mouse middle button helps a lot.

Franklin.

Chris Miller wrote:
>> Hello Arik,
>>
>>> I disagree - no tool should "dictate" what is better. Many people
>>> prefer the small "X" button on the tabs - others, prefer to
>>> shift-click. There's no reason to alienate those that prefer to work
>>> with the mouse (although I, for one, do prefer the shift-click ;))
>>>
>> BTW, there is also Middle Click to close tabs. "X" button will just
>> waste valuable space.


How about having a single "X" button somewhere over on the RHS instead
(maybe above the vertical scrollbar) that will close the currently open
window? Similar to the way Firefox does it. I know that won't let you
close arbitrary windows like an "X" on each tab would, but it's a
reasonable compromise IMHO. Most of the time when I want to close a
window it's the current one anyway.

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Serge Baranov wrote:

BTW, there is also Middle Click to close tabs. "X" button will just
waste valuable space.


And there's also the factor that a badly aimed mouse-click is has a
higher "destructive" potential when tabs have close buttons.

Ciao,
Gordon

P.S. Yes, English is my first language. No, I couldn't think of a better
way to phrase that. I tried a few times. ;)

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://www.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: (416) 933-5046 | Fax: (416) 933-5001

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One down (debugger reloaded message).
14 to go.

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I agree wholeheartedly!

I don't necessarily consider all of your points so big issues for me personally, but on the other hand there is a huge list of other issues that have been annoying me for a very long time. Most of them can be found in the JIRA's backlog (and Tracker before that), where they have remained ignored and forgotten for months or even years.

I think IntelliJ people have been using their own IDE for too long. Don't get me wrong, I think a major factor in IDEA's success is that the developers are using the tool they develop, but on the other hand I think it has made them blind to the many small problems in the IDE.

I mean after using IDEA for years now, I have come to accept - and pretty much expect - all the bigger and smaller quirks that IDEA has. Like halting for a few seconds every now and then when the garbage collection kicks in, or stealing focus from other applications some task completes, or many other things you already mentioned. As I said, after awhile you become blind to them - "This issue has been there forever. Sure it annoyed me first, but now I'm used to it. I don't think it's such a big deal".

After staring to use the combination of IDEA and OS X for Java development, the issues have literally exploded. I'm not sure wether it is Apple or IntelliJ I should blame about all the usability, focus, graphical and performance issues that I keep encountering every day, but let me just say it has been a long time since I have really "developed with pleasure".

- Markus

PS. Yes, I have tried other IDEs, but have not been able to find anything that would give me the same "Wow!" feeling that IDEA did years back. I guess what they say about democracy is true for IDEA too: "I know it sucks, but it's still better than the alternatives" ;)

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- Idea slows to a crawl when encountering large
classes say 2500+ lines
or more. This is very perceptible.


+1
This is a big problem for me.

Francesco

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