EAP process and interaction with the community

The new 3281 has a new feature inspired by a request of mine. The "sort by type" option in the project view was born here:

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-768

This is a nice feeling. That being said, I'm somewhat disappointed by the lack of communication between the IDEA developers and the community, even when they're doing something that was originally suggested by a community member. There wasn't a single comment by a JetBrains developer before the issue was marked as resolved.

The end result is, the feature was implemented (good thing) but in a not so great way (bad thing). While I'm sure that future builds will probably include enhancements to this feature, it would be way easier and more enjoyable, for us EAP members and for JetBrains developers, if there was a little more communication before the feature was actually implemented.

I would expect at least one post from a developer asking and/or stating opinions on minor facets of the feature being implemented, like the preferred sort order and the icons used for the different types. This used to happen before, and I really miss this kind of participation :(

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Hello Marcus,

MB> I would expect at least one post from a developer asking and/or
MB> stating opinions on minor facets of the feature being implemented,
MB> like the preferred sort order and the icons used for the different
MB> types. This used to happen before, and I really miss this kind of
MB> participation :(

Unfortunaly is it true :(
I think so, at least...

--
Alexey Efimov, Java Developer
Tops BI
http://www.topsbi.ru


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I put ordering feedback in on the original request, but didn't see any reply nor was there any incorporation of the feedback. I've also posted on the EAP forum...trying all known ways to communicate on this issue!

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Am I missing something Marcus?
The link to IDEADEV-768 you provided shows quite a lengthy discussion where
Alexey Kudravtsev seem to be involved.
As to abstract classes aren't get sorted this is quite plain bug. We mechanically
assumed abstract to be a class modifier (like final or static), not the class
type when sorting. Will be fixed for sure.
Then icons are quite different stuff. It's much better to see them in action
to get the feeling if they do serve their purpose well. Plain images won't
say much until you see them applied to your particular project and conditions.

Finally, what's wrong with being interactive? You've got the feature implemented
and you're not satisfied. Well, we have real (not hypotetical) usecases
showing something must be reimplemented. Just tell is what they are!

-


Maxim Shafirov
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

The new 3281 has a new feature inspired by a request of mine. The
"sort by type" option in the project view was born here:

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-768

This is a nice feeling. That being said, I'm somewhat disappointed by
the lack of communication between the IDEA developers and the
community, even when they're doing something that was originally
suggested by a community member. There wasn't a single comment by a
JetBrains developer before the issue was marked as resolved.

The end result is, the feature was implemented (good thing) but in a
not so great way (bad thing). While I'm sure that future builds will
probably include enhancements to this feature, it would be way easier
and more enjoyable, for us EAP members and for JetBrains developers,
if there was a little more communication before the feature was
actually implemented.

I would expect at least one post from a developer asking and/or
stating opinions on minor facets of the feature being implemented,
like the preferred sort order and the icons used for the different
types. This used to happen before, and I really miss this kind of
participation :(



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Actually I think it has been way worse and has improved during the last weeks.
Don't forget there's always room for misunderstandings and plain bugs. Since this
is a request that's also heavily dependent on personal preferences I would have
never expected that the first version that's put into the EAP will be the final state.

Patience young Jedi, ... ;)

Sascha

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Actually Maxim, I believe that you are mistaken. Alexey Kudravtsev did not get involved in the conversation until after the issue was marked as resolved.

I don't see this as a slam against Alexey, or anyone else in particular, but rather an issue with the interaction process in general.

Jira Issues are routinely closed without so much as a comment on how the request was implemented, or what the bug might have been. There may be some exceptions to this, but for most of the issues that I have looked at, very little information is provided until after the build containing the implementation is made available and EAPers start checking it out.

In the end, the results are excellent, it just takes a little longer getting there than it has to.

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Am I missing something Marcus?
The link to IDEADEV-768 you provided shows quite a
lengthy discussion where
Alexey Kudravtsev seem to be involved.


Not really. The first post by Kudravtsev was done right after he implemented the issue. Not trying to bash him for an otherwise well-done job, but I wouldn't call that involvement.

Oh, please keep in mind that while I used IDEADEV-768 as a scapegoat, this post isn't really about this issue in particular, but about the general lack of communication I'm felling lately. I used to take part in discussions about new features whenever a request was posted on the old issue tracker. I'm sure there are other people here who can remember these old days. Alain, Amnon, Dave and Max (yup, you!) come to my mind right now.

Finally, what's wrong with being interactive? You've
got the feature implemented
and you're not satisfied. Well, we have real (not
hypotetical) usecases
showing something must be reimplemented. Just tell is
what they are!


There's nothing wrong with being interactive, exactly the opposite! No other company (or big open source project!) offers this kind of involvement we have already, but man, we are all a bunch of spoiled developers! No matter how great IDEA and it's development process is, we always want it better :)

As some closing words, I'd like to address some props to you, Max. In the last few weeks the overall response in the forums and in JIRA issues has greatly improved, compared to the situation we had in Pallada, and you seem to be the key element to that improvement. Congratulations on a job well done!... but we want more :P

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MB> As some closing words, I'd like to address some props to you, Max.
MB> In the last few weeks the overall response in the forums and in JIRA
MB> issues has greatly improved, compared to the situation we had in
MB> Pallada, and you seem to be the key element to that improvement.
MB> Congratulations on a job well done!


Well said. Maxim is really making a QoS difference.


MB> ... but we want more :P


Who doesn't :) But that costs. Many a time I've seen Max working well after
hours...


MB> Not really. The first post by Kudravtsev was done right after he
MB> implemented the issue.

You can always open another jira issue with an rfe. The end result is almost
the same.

Of course, I think it can be more productive the developer first showing
a proposal and asking for opinions, so that he doesn't have to do the same
work several times - that's preety much what I do when I remember to do it
:)

But the reverse is also true: the proposal gives rise to endless discussion
on ideological matters, while a prototype implementation and a request for
comments would be a straightforward matter. And when the developer after
listening to all the useless talk takes the dictatorial approach doing exactly
what he wanted anyway, the users complain that their pet ideology hasn't
been listened to :)


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You can always open another jira issue with an rfe.
The end result is almost
the same.


Oh, I've done that even before starting this thread ;)

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-1326
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-823
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-828

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MB> ... but we want more :P
Who doesn't :) But that costs. Many a time I've seen Max working well
after hours...


I would say it's around 12-14 hours 6 days a week...

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Marcus Brito wrote:

in discussions about new features whenever a request was posted on
the old issue tracker. I'm sure there are other people here who can
remember these old days. Alain, Amnon, Dave and Max (yup, you!) come
to my mind right now.


You do know that the functionality of the old tracker is now available
again with Jira right?

Check out the jetbranis.intellij.idea.jira newsgroup...

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You do know that the functionality of the old tracker
is now available
again with Jira right?


I do, but my draconian employee blocked NNTP access. Anyway my comment was not a jab at JIRA, but just a comment about how discussions used to be more frequent and active than it is today.

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