Input in Linux

I'm finding that in Linux, IDEA doesn't obey my XFree input setup. I have XFree configured with deadkeys (so that when I press ', it waits to see what I press next to see if I really want an accented character). The character accents work fine, but normally under x, if I want a single quote I have to press ']]>. This doesn't work, and it's made it really awkward to enter the single and double quote characters.

Is there an easy way round this? I guess this may be a standard Java input locale problem rather than IDEA specific, but I'm clueless and frustrated...

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Colin Fleming wrote:
| I'm finding that in Linux, IDEA doesn't obey my XFree input setup. I have XFree configured with deadkeys (so that when I press ',
it waits to see what I press next to see if I really want an accented character). The character accents work fine, but normally
under x, if I want a single quote I have to press ']]>. This doesn't work, and it's made it really awkward to enter the single
and double quote characters.
|
| Is there an easy way round this? I guess this may be a standard Java input locale problem rather than IDEA specific, but I'm
clueless and frustrated...

Another annoying thing with linux input: I can't input "^". I have to copy and paste it any time i want it.

/Kreiger
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On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 16:26:16 +0300, Colin Fleming wrote:

I'm finding that in Linux, IDEA doesn't obey my XFree input setup. I
have XFree configured with deadkeys (so that when I press ', it waits to
see what I press next to see if I really want an accented character).


Did you have to set that up manually? AIUI, the 'correct' way to enter
accented characters is to use the 'compose' key, a denoting key and then
the target key (which requires one more keystroke than your system needs).
I'd have thought your distribution's default X config would have mapped
the 'compose' key onto one of your keyboard's modifier keys (I don't know
what kind of keyboard you have, but AltGr or (more commonly) the right
Windows logo key are likely candidates).

The character accents work fine,


Suggesting it's not a font or character set problem.

but normally under x, if I want a
single quote I have to press '<space>. This doesn't work, and it's made
it really awkward to enter the single and double quote characters.


I'm not sure I could work with a setup that required ']]> every time I
wanted a single quote! Your mileage clearly varies.

Is there an easy way round this? I guess this may be a standard Java
input locale problem rather than IDEA specific, but I'm clueless and
frustrated...


It does seem strange if it's only IDEA that doesn't honour your config.

I have a slightly oddball keyboard setup (both physically and in terms of
the keymap I use) but I do have 'compose' mapped to the right Alt key.

This means I can type, for example, RAlt ~ n to get ñ (i.e. 'n' with
a ~ above it) and RAlt ' e to get é (i.e. 'e' with an acute accent).
That's three separate press-and-release actions in each case (which may
be what you're trying to avoid?). Perhaps your setup already permits the
same? This works the same way in all X clients I've tried.

You can use 'xev' to interactively find out the keysyms assigned to each
key. Confusingly, IMO, 'compose' is identified by 'Multi_key'.

I also have various more often used symbols mapped to single, modified
keystrokes (if that's not a contradiction).

--
Mark Scott
mark@codebrewer.com

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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 11:52:03 +0100, Christoffer "Kreiger" Hammarström
wrote:

Another annoying thing with linux input: I can't input "^". I have to
copy and paste it any time i want it.


In all apps, or just in IDEA?

--
Mark Scott
mark@codebrewer.com

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Mark Scott wrote:
| On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 11:52:03 +0100, Christoffer "Kreiger" Hammarström
| wrote:
|
|
|>Another annoying thing with linux input: I can't input "^". I have to
|>copy and paste it any time i want it.
|
|
| In all apps, or just in IDEA?
|

In IDEA. I have to put a "^" in another program and copy/paste it into IDEA.

/Kreiger
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Did you have to set that up manually? AIUI, the 'correct' way to enter
accented characters is to use the 'compose' key...


Well, there's two different ways. I have the us_intl keyboard selected, which gives me the right-alt mapping that you describe and also the deadkeys that I described above. It's a standard keyboard mechanism, spanish keyboards also use it for example, but with a US keyboard it's more intrusive because there's only the one quote key (spanish keyboards have a key specifically for the accent deadkey).

So I can use the right-alt mechanism, but I don't like it, and it's maddening that IDEA behaves differently to other Linux apps. This all works perfectly in other apps, BTW. What I suspect is happening is that Java isn't honoring the XFree input setup for some reason.

The character accents work fine,


Suggesting it's not a font or character set problem.


No, it's definitely an input problem.

I'm not sure I could work with a setup that required
'<space> every time I wanted a single quote!


Actually, it's not that bad. I've rolled my own Compose table that means that if I press ]]> then any character that doesn't need an accent, it inserts the quote normally and the other character. Which means I can basically type normally and everything works. I'm going to write a mini-HOWTO about it, I'll post the link when it's done if you're interested. It's pretty straightforward (and totally legal under X, if a little uncommon).

It does seem strange if it's only IDEA that doesn't
honour your config.


I've only had Linux installed at home a week or so (well, installed and working anyway ;)), I'll try with another Java app to see if it's a Java thing or an IDEA thing.

This means I can type, for example, RAlt ~ n to get ñ (i.e. 'n' with
a ~ above it) and RAlt ' e to get é (i.e. 'e' with an acute accent).


See, I think that would drive me nuts :-). YMMV, as you stated. With my setup, I can either do RAlt n for ñ, or RAlt e for é, or I can do ~ n or ' e respectively as well, which is what I normally do.

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Another annoying thing with linux input: I can't
input "^". I have to copy and paste it any time i
want it.


I guess that's because ^ is a deadkey for you. If you type it followed by an a, for example, do you get â? If so, you should be able to get the bare ^ by doing ^ - ]]>, but I bet you can't.

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I can confirm this with a German keyboard. But it is no direct IDEA-problem,
but a Java- or Swing/AWT-problem on Linux. I have no clue, how to work
around it except copy-pasting or using another (wind)OS :(

Tom

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http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do;:WuuT?bug_id=4799499

This is exactly what I didn't want to read. Although at least it looks like they might be working on it. I'll try their example Swing app with Tiger RC1 when I get a moment, and see if it's fixed.

It also looks like there's no way of customising their keyboard layout, which is equally outrageous. I don't understand why they can't just use the X input?

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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 18:02:51 +0300, Colin Fleming wrote:

>> I'm not sure I could work with a setup that required
>> ']]> every time I wanted a single quote!


Actually, it's not that bad. I've rolled my own Compose table that means
that if I press <quote> then any character that doesn't need an
accent, it inserts the quote normally and the other character.


I guess you don't type things into, say, a shell in a terminal under X
then? How would you get 'e (literally ' then e) rather than é? (If I've
understood correctly then 'e would give ' e, so 'e would require ']]>e?)

Which
means I can basically type normally and everything works. I'm going to
write a mini-HOWTO about it, I'll post the link when it's done if you're
interested. It's pretty straightforward (and totally legal under X, if a
little uncommon).


Sure - I'd be interested to read it.

>> This means I can type, for example, RAlt ~ n to get ñ (i.e. 'n' with
>> a ~ above it) and RAlt ' e to get é (i.e. 'e' with an acute accent).

See, I think that would drive me nuts :).


Yeah, well, it would me too - I said that I can, not that I do ;)

I have äÄöÖüÜߤ¢£ set up for Mode_switch + appropriate keys, with
Mode_switch mapped to (what, if my keyboard had the logos, would be)
LWin & RWin.

YMMV, as you stated. With my
setup, I can either do RAlt n for ñ, or RAlt e for é, or I can do ~ n
or ' e respectively as well, which is what I normally do.


Oh, OK. The first method is what I do, the second is a new one on me. I
can see that the second approach is easier if you have to apply more than
one sort of modifier to a letter e.g. é and è (since you'd have to opt
for one or the other with the RAlt alternative).

I thought I'd gone through all of X's input hoops learning how to get my
small footprint US layout keyboard working with a Dvorak keymap, modified
for some accented characters, Euro stuff and £. Clearly not though.

--
Mark Scott
mark@codebrewer.com

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Colin Fleming wrote:
|>Another annoying thing with linux input: I can't
|>input "^". I have to copy and paste it any time i
|>want it.
|
|
| I guess that's because ^ is a deadkey for you. If you type it followed by an a, for example, do you get ?? If so, you should be
able to get the bare ^ by doing ^ - ]]>, but I bet you can't.
|
I can type â and ô (a and o with caret), but ^ is no go.

I should perhaps mention i am using a swedish keyboard.

/Kreiger
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I guess you don't type things into, say, a shell in a terminal under X
then? How would you get 'e (literally ' then e) rather than é? (If I've
understood correctly then '<space>e would give ' e, so 'e would require
'<space><backspace>e?)


No, the two special cases with these characters are if I press , or , it just gives me the quote character. gives me either an accented character if it's required, or a quote followed by the other character if it's not. So the difficult cases are when I require the quote ahead of a character that could take an accent, and when I want a quote at the end of a line, for example. Thus 'e' is pretty much the worst case, and requires 'e']]>.

But that makes it sound much worse than it actually is, in practise 99.9% of the time I just type normally, whether it's text in English, Spanish, Java or shell scripting.

I thought I'd gone through all of X's input hoops learning how to get my
small footprint US layout keyboard working with a Dvorak keymap, modified
for some accented characters, Euro stuff and £. Clearly not though.


Linux - always more ways to waste your time (tm)

:)

Sadly, all this makes for big big wins for Eclipse under Linux. Many of the problems that IDEA has just don't exist. It renders fonts using the native window manager, uses the native input, and I can run it with Java 5. Sure, I like IDEA better, but if I had to work day in day out in Linux, I don't think I'd be using IDEA.

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