Early comments on Irida features


Well the features list is posted:
http://www.intellij.net/eap/products/idea/irida.jsp. Looking it over, I'm extremely impressed. If you guys can pull it off, you'll have yet again accomplished something amazing (but you knew that already).

Thoughts on specific features

+XML tag completion inserts required subtags
Oh, this will be nice.
+Refactoring In XML Files
Not sure what this means, but I'm sure it will be great. Tag/attribute renaming alone would rule.

+HTML/CSS/JSP/J2ME/J2EE support
Couldn't care less, as I don't use these technologies myself, but the line items look pretty solid (JSP in particular). Hope it helps you sell a lot of licenses.

+'Move Method' refactoring
+'Inline Superclass' refactoring
+'Safe Delete' should be able to remove class from class hierarchy
+'Replace Method Code Duplicates': ability to find duplicate method code fragments in multiple files
+'Introduce Variable' from a portion of a string literal
+'Change Method Signature' to work indeep in call hierarchy
+'Change Variable Type' refactoring

As always, JetBrains shows that they understand what developers actually have to do with their time, and how supple and responsive refactoring automation can not only ease our drudgery, but make us better at our jobs. Can't wait to see these.

+Favourites (shelf) view
In other contexts, shelves have been a godsend. In IDEA, the Ctrl-N family of navigation tools may already be to powerful for me to use a shelf much.

+'Move' refactoring via drag and drop
If this is drag-n-drop in the project/package view, this will be mighty. If so, I would also suggest also supporting rename in the package view, similar to how it works in many file browsers (Click-pause and replace the file name with a tiny editor).

+Customizable toolbar
Like the shelf, this is another feature that IDEA might already be too good to need. I rarely need to use the toolbar as is, other than for Run profiles.

+Close all unmodified files
I was hoping for "Close all but pinned", but this will probably do.

+Project loading can be cancelled
Bliss, simply bliss.

+Intention configuration pane in IDE options
Late, but appreciated.

+IDE Settings - 'Errors': saveable profiles
Yeah!

+Subversion integration
Excellent

+Analyze dependencies to work the opposite way
Very nice.

+I18N inspection: convert all String constants to i18n calls
Good to see this on the plate again. I was sad to see it dropped from Aurora way back when.

+'Structure View' API
+User-defined live template functions
+Ability for one plugin to export API to another
+Ability for inspection tool to inspect non-java files
+Ability for inspection tool to provide reasonable defaults
+More (than error/warning/do not show) report severity adjustments

If you'll excuse me, it looks like I've got a lot of plugin coding to do. These will all be very nice indeed.

+Reorder methods on reformat
Dipping your toes into some tricky waters, here. Good to see.

+Move selected line/block 1 line up/down (structurally)
I would guess I currently use the LineMover plugin about once per minute, and am consistently flummoxed when I have to use applications which don't support it. Good to see this functionality in product.

+Navigate to class/file/symbol: automatically turn search in libs checkbox on when no project items match
This could be either really annoying or really handy, but I'm betting on annoying.

+Navigate to class/file/symbol: ability to display more matches
+Quick view implementation (with navigation ability)
Very cool, although I must say it looks like you're running out of ways to improve navigation. Diminishing returns are setting in.

Setting up a logging breakpoint: select expression then shiftclick on the gutter
Very nice. Death to System.out.println.

+Variable name completion based on unresolved references
I can't tell you how much time this will save.

--Dave Griffith

34 comments

Hello, Dave!
You wrote on Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:57:02 +0400 (MSD):


DG> Well the features list is posted:
DG> http://www.intellij.net/eap/products/idea/irida.jsp. Looking it
DG> over, I'm extremely impressed. If you guys can pull it off, you'll
DG> have yet again accomplished something amazing (but you knew that
DG> already).

I'm agree with Dave, these features is just i great list! :)

Especialy thanks for J2ME support and exporting Eclipse projects - this is
helpful for beginers who crashed ther arms on Eclipse features :))

DG> Setting up a logging breakpoint: select expression then shiftclick
DG> on the gutter
DG> Very nice. Death to System.out.println.

But it death since Debug is available :))

Thanks!
--
Alexey Efimov, Java Developer
Tops-BI
http://www.topsbi.ru


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Dave Griffith wrote:

+Refactoring In XML Files
Not sure what this means, but I'm sure it will be great. Tag/attribute renaming alone would rule.


I hope it means things like Convert Attribute to Text Tag, and Convert
Text Tag to Attribute, like this:
123-4567 Some stuff To: Joe 123-4567 Some stuff To: Joe Some stuff ]]>

I'm sure a more XML-intensive programmer could propose more.

--
Rob Harwood
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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Nice. Other thoughts I had include "Extract Entity", "Inline Entity" and a possible intention to expand/collapse tags that contain neither text nor subtags (i.e. ]]>). For all of these, options to 1) refactor the DTD or schema, if available and 2) create an XSLT file that would automate the refactoring would be very valuable. Add it all up, and you've got software to conjure with.

--Dave Griffith

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Dave Griffith wrote:

+Refactoring In XML Files
Not sure what this means, but I'm sure it will be great. Tag/attribute renaming alone would rule.


o Extract to entity-ref?
o Extract to X-Include ref.

Maybe?

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Yikes! Nothing about Web Services!? I think an intelligent Web Services layer would make IDEA a killer app. Look around the Java WS landscape and it is barren for good support for Web Services. If there is anywhere "_pleasure_" is needed, it is in the WSDL-WSIL-WSDD soup of SOAP.

0

Great features , guys. Hope see them all soon.

0

Agreed Justin. The features list looks great but the one thing I was really looking for in Irida doesn't appear to have made it onto the list. I'm hoping it's just an oversight as I really hate using two IDEs on my web services projects as I do at the moment (JDeveloper for it's "Generate WSDL from Java Source" functionality, which usually saves me hours of work, and IDEA for everything else).

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I think the Visual Fabrique plugin supported web services, but I could
be mistaken. It is supposed to be available with this new release, but
is MIA so far.

Norris Shelton
Sun Certified Java Programmer




Rob Bradley wrote:

>Agreed Justin. The features list looks great but the one thing I was really looking for in Irida doesn't appear to have made it onto the list. I'm hoping it's just an oversight as I really hate using two IDEs on my web services projects as I do at the moment (JDeveloper for it's "Generate WSDL from Java Source" functionality, which usually saves me hours of work, and IDEA for everything else).

>

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Not seeing Aspects on this makes me sad :(

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I don't recall anything in the VF EAP but again I could have been mistaken. I think that solid and smart Web Services support will be crucial to stay off the eclipse tide. I just checked out their Web Platform and it looks pretty intense.

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me too.

"Gregory Pierce" <no_mail@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:7832976.1098894136290.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

Not seeing Aspects on this makes me sad :(



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True!

What's happened to AspectJ integration?!

:(

0

Will there be no support for Web Services in Irida? I, and I think many more, really would like to see support for Web Services.

/Michail

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hi.

WebService support would be cool. I am just getting into it now. But in general web service support seems to be on the rise.

Florian

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Nobody used it. It stopped being shiny.

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hi.

What do you mean no body used it?

Do you mean in IDEA? They have disabled the feature and it was never completed.

Do you mean out there in the real world? I think you are wrong. App servers like JBOSS are bringing AOP to the forfront as we speak. Many tools out there, including IDEA use AOP.

The one thing that is true is that we need tools to allow AOP to be used by large teams of developers and across large projects. Without integrated tools, all developers have to know the AOP code very well to be able to properly browse and debug code.

Florian.

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We're talking about AspectJ, specifically. AOP as a general concept managed to make some great success in the development community -- as long as the language remains as Java, without any additional grammar. Practical AOP, offered by tools like Spring and AspectWerkz really helped this popularization, not AspectJ.

AspectJ, on the other side, lost the shinyz and less people are using it today. Given the larger voices demanding lots of other features (better J2EE integration, WebServices and what-not), it seems reasonable for JetBrains to drop AspectJ support.

... which doesn't means we'll never see it: if I remember correctly, there are plans for pluggable grammars and compilers in IDEA: when this happens anyone will be able to write a plugin to handle AspectJ.

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Marcus Brito

>AspectJ, on the other side, lost the shinyz and less people are using it today.
>

It's a chicken and egg problem:
Unlike the pure-Java AOP solutions/frameworks, AspectJ demands tight
integration with the IDE, hence the request.
As long as it's not integrated we can't use both effectively at the same
time: it's either IDEA, or AspectJ.

You don't miss what you don't know.
If you love IDEA, and don't know AspectJ yet, you'd have to pay a hefty
price to try out the technology. So, people won't learn it, as they
can't use it.

Alain


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It's a chicken and egg problem:
Unlike the pure-Java AOP solutions/frameworks,
AspectJ demands tight
integration with the IDE, hence the request.


Makes sense. It's a situation like this one that really demands a flexible plugin system: JetBrains itself ain't eager to support AspectJ, but aspect developers need the IDE support -- and if they can (and unfortunately they can't do this for IDEA), they will write the plugin themselves.

0

+1

I see more benefit in the market for web services than any type of aspects.

The JBoss argument isn't necessarily valid. Anybody can write it and
submit the code. That doesn't mean that it is prevalent in the market,
only a few people gave the time to write it.

Norris Shelton
Sun Certified Java Programmer




Mic wrote:

>Will there be no support for Web Services in Irida? I, and I think many more, really would like to see support for Web Services.
>
>/Michail

>

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I could be wrong but I don't think Norris is referring to the VF EAP?? Seems like he is referring to a plugin that sits between IDEA and VF... though admittedly it's the first I've heard of one other than simply as a "wish list" item.

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Rob Bradley wrote:

EAP?? Seems like he is referring to a plugin that sits between IDEA
and VF... though admittedly it's the first I've heard of one other
than simply as a "wish list" item.


Rumour has it that VF and IDEA will be integrated. I think I read
something along those lines in the forums a few weeks back.

CU,
Edwin

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So they will effectively become one product?? I hadn't heard about that, it would be very cool provided the the price of IDEA doesn't rise astronomically with it.

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Ahh ok I think I just read what you are referring to over in the VF EAP forum. Sounds good to me and doesn't appear to indicate and rise in costs if it is labelled as a "plugin". Would be very cool if this was the case.

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JetBrains made a statement that VF will integrate into IJ as a plugin.
I think it is the best solution. Their established customers (IntelliJ
users) are the best market for a new product. If it does JSF, I can
guarantee at least 2 of us here will have it. If it does web services,
there are 2 or 3 more that will buy it.

Norris Shelton
Sun Certified Java Programmer




Edwin van Ouwerkerk Moria wrote:

Rob Bradley wrote:

>
>> EAP?? Seems like he is referring to a plugin that sits between IDEA
>> and VF... though admittedly it's the first I've heard of one other
>> than simply as a "wish list" item.
>
>

Rumour has it that VF and IDEA will be integrated. I think I read
something along those lines in the forums a few weeks back.

>

CU,
Edwin

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Rob Bradley wrote:

in costs if it is labelled as a "plugin". Would be very cool if this
was the case.


yeah, it sounds like an excellent plan! A big leap forward re: the
competition. Can't wait...

CU,
Edwin

0

That would be cool, but maybe not necessarily a good business model.
MyEclipse is not free ($35), yet it is offered for a free web server. I
wouldn't mind paying a premium for the plugin if it has full JSF
support. The point would not be arguable if it also supported web
services in typical IJ fashion.

Norris Shelton
Sun Certified Java Programmer




Edwin van Ouwerkerk Moria wrote:

Rob Bradley wrote:

>
>> in costs if it is labelled as a "plugin". Would be very cool if this
>> was the case.
>
>

yeah, it sounds like an excellent plan! A big leap forward re: the
competition. Can't wait...

>

CU,
Edwin

0

Norris Shelton wrote:

That would be cool, but maybe not necessarily a good business model.
MyEclipse is not free ($35), yet it is offered for a free web server. I
wouldn't mind paying a premium for the plugin if it has full JSF
support. The point would not be arguable if it also supported web
services in typical IJ fashion.


I'm not sure I follow - Eclipse+MyEclipse sort of covers the J2EE
functionality IDEA offers, but doesn't have anything in the way of a
VFIDEA combo, or does it? A VFIDEA combo would put IDEA on a par with
something like WSAD which costs an obscene amount of money.
(Just comparing J2EE features, here. In terms of usability there's no
contest. I start bleeding from the eyes just thinking about the last
WSAD project I had to do.)

CU,
Edwin

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For me it would really depend on the cost. I'm not a contractor and don't earn big city wages so my disposable income is fairly low and unfortunately my employers will only plough limited funds into development as the company I work for is not development centric.

With them already paying for IDEA so it would take a lot to convince them it was worth the investment... having said that if it was priced reasonably enough though I would probably find the cash myself. I'm crossing my fingers that it will become part of the standard feature set though, after all nobody had to pay extra for the GUI builder. :)

0

I agree completely. This is a great list of features.

However I am a little disappointed not to see anything about opening up more IDEA core features like
1. Refactorings (extendable rename/move/change signatures... to support custom frameworks with semantic dependencies between configuration files, classes...)
2. Searches (also to support frameworks)
Any framework with config files or other metadata info would benefit greatly.

I would have liked to see more support for custom scope accross views, search, replace...

JBuilder has implemented now a feature dear to my heart: distributed refactoring that really makes a different IMHO in large projects with multiple teams (http://asia.cnet.com/builder/program/java/0,39009364,39189561,00.htm)
http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=4009

I am not going to expose my laundery list here so I will stop at that.

Jacques

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