assertTrue(intellij.isFeatureSetGreaterThan(eclipse))

The last time I checked out Eclipse was before Aurora EAP started. Yesterday I was coaxed to take another look at Eclipse because of the JDK 1.5 plugin for Eclipse. I am amazed how close IntelliJ and Eclipse have become in the functionalities that I use. I was wondering if people are willing to create/maintain a log of feature comparison as both IDEA 4.x and Eclipse 3.0Mx continue.

IntelliJ:
Multiple output paths in one project
More granular find usages (including import filter)
More granular code reformating
More granular code coloring (field, local, parameter etc.)
Kick-ass diff and merge tool
Implemeted/Over-ridden method indicator
Ability to create as many projects from same content root
Extremely intelligent responsive and active (and occassionally humorous) user community
Easier (in terms of menus and keymaps) navigation

Eclipse:
JDK 1.5 plugin
Supposedly better plugin portfolio

I am not mentioning license cost since at my company's cost structure intellij upgrade is about 4 man hours. I am not JSP savvy. I use EJBs a lot but not the J2EE integration (including WL).

Intellij is a religion for me and I would hate to see it fall behind.

22 comments

The last time I checked out Eclipse was before Aurora
EAP started.

>



Intellij is a religion for me and I would hate to see
it fall behind.


Don't worry, in terms of usability IDEA is so much ahead of Eclipse. I believe I can tell because I'm one of the poor guys whose company is not willing to pay for any IDE that costs more than Eclipse, and now that the EAP is over, I have been wrecking my nerves with Eclipse for three days.
It's not that Eclipse is missing any crucial functionality, but IDEA just has that little extra in every area which makes developing a real pleasure (I guess with Eclipse it's more "Developing with sublimation").

Regards,
Jens

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It sounds like a trivial thing, but the last time I took a look at Eclipse,
it was the lack of "code style knobs" that made stop looking and stick with
IDEA.

Kendall

"Vinay Moharil" <vmohar98@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20832774.1077163562954.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

The last time I checked out Eclipse was before Aurora EAP started.

Yesterday I was coaxed to take another look at Eclipse because of the JDK
1.5 plugin for Eclipse. I am amazed how close IntelliJ and Eclipse have
become in the functionalities that I use. I was wondering if people are
willing to create/maintain a log of feature comparison as both IDEA 4.x and
Eclipse 3.0Mx continue.
>

IntelliJ:

More granular code reformating

>

Eclipse:



0

I am struggling with Eclipse for more than 1.5 days and still no where.

I do think the new version 3.0 has a much better code style and code formatting and code coloring knobs but not as good as IntelliJ. But I must say over the period, they have copied and implemented lot of good ideas from IDEA.

0

In article <20832774.1077163562954.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>,
Vinay Moharil <vmohar98@yahoo.com> wrote:

Eclipse:


The Eclipse metrics plugin has no equivalent in IDEA. InspectionGadgets
gives me the McCabe metric, but there are others I would like, and the
presentation could be improved. Inspection gadgets is perfectly suited
to its purpose - inspections during coding - but less well suited for
building a metric-based view of the code.

I like the new class dialog in Eclipse much better. It does a lot more,
making class creation a one-gesture task, rather than a many gesture
task. I could deal with a plugin to do exactly that, since not everyone
agrees.

For me, the jury is still out on whether Jacques Morel's junit plugin is
better than the Eclipse equivalent - for a time, I liked the Eclipse one
better, but I have gotten quite used Jacques plugin.

ISTR that Eclipse had "change type of field/variable" and "make field
static/instance" refactorings.

Do not get me wrong - I like the feature set of IDEA in general, but
Eclipse is not just a copy.

Scott

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My intent is not to downplay Eclipse. Lots (NOT ALL) of features that they have added over the last year (especially along the lines of refactoring, code style etc.) seem to mirror the IntelliJ features.

I like the healthy competition between these 2 products making the developer the ultimate winner.

0

It sounds like a trivial thing, but the last time I took a look at Eclipse,
it was the lack of "code style knobs" that made stop looking and stick with
IDEA.


Take a look at M7, it is much better now.

Tom

0

But I must say over the period, they have copied and implemented lot of good ideas from IDEA.


Seriously, at IntelliJ's side I would think about patents if appliable.

Tom

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Do not get me wrong - I like the feature set of IDEA in general, but
Eclipse is not just a copy.


You are right, Eclipse contains some good features you do not find in
IDEA. Let us try to find the real good pieces to be implemented in IDEA
as well (not just copy, but rethink the feature).

Tom

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I feel like this competition does not make the developer the winner, I feel like IDEA's developers are moving to develop other projects (like ReSharper and their C# PIM utility) since Eclipse is slowly killing IDEA, only because it's free.

I don't think Eclipse will ever be as good as IDEA, but it is free, and I'm afraid it will take all of IDEA's users for that reason only, and I think this won't be good for anyone. It seems like IntelliJ are the major innovators in the IDE world, and if they can't support themselves anymore because everyone's using Eclipse, the world will be stuck with dumb IDE's for ever. :)

0

I agree, I don't normally support software patents, but I feel like this is an exceptional case where a great product is at risk of being overtaken by a mediocre free product.

0

Now really is the time to be creating more plugins. I hear everyone talk about how great the eclipse plugins are. I have only done some minor work on one plugin but,
is the plugin api stable now? Could we (the community) really start serious work on plugins? I don't want to create a plugin just to find that the api drastically changes next week.

0

On one hand I don't mind asking my manager to pay for the upgrade since as I said it is worth about 4 man hours. On the other hand I like the freeware/open source spirit and desperately hope that it will defeat the MS someday, talk about being a hypocrat!!!!

I am not sure IDEA developers are moving to C# because of competition from Eclipse. I think it is more corporate/strategic direction to not miss the .NET boat.

You exaclty echo my sentiment when you talk about IDEA losing to a not so good but free software.

0

I'm afraid I'll be flamed for this, but oh well.

I'm a fairly devout idea user, for about 2 years now, but I must say the momentum appears to lie with eclipse now. Eclipse still suffers from serious polish issues, but judging from the rate at which eclipse has managed to close the gap, it definitely seems possible it could surpass idea someday soon in features and even polish.

And while I recognize how much eclipse has blatantly copied from idea, that is the perogative of open source software, right? I mean, that's what we hope and pray open source does when the commercial alternative happens to be someone we don't like. And on top of that, there are innovations eclipse can claim are unique, such as it's very flexible workspace, unique VCS integration, and in some ways superior debugger).

Having played devil's advocate, I will say I detest using eclipse, and I love using idea. I can't tell if it's because idea really has some special, undefineable something that's vastly superior, or I'm just used to it, and I can't stand not having my dozens of keyboard shortcuts changed.

0

In article <20832774.1077163562954.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>,
Vinay Moharil <vmohar98@yahoo.com> wrote:

Eclipse:
JDK 1.5 plugin
Supposedly better plugin portfolio


In Eclipse, if you extract a method, it will find that same code in
other methods and extract that too.

It's like IDEA's "replace all occurrences of expression" but with
methods. It's pretty neat.

0

In article <17487455.1077241654447.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>,
Russell Egan <russegan@email.com> wrote:

I'm a fairly devout idea user, for about 2 years now, but I must say the
momentum appears to lie with eclipse now. Eclipse still suffers from serious
polish issues, but judging from the rate at which eclipse has managed to
close the gap, it definitely seems possible it could surpass idea someday
soon in features and even polish.


There is a thing called the "out of the box experience". It's what you
experience between the time you open the box and you get the product
doing what you want.

Eclipse has a horrible out of the box experience. IDEA's isn't so hot
either, but it is better than Eclipse.

Here's an exercise: sit an IDEA-newbie down at a computer, and tell her
to find, install and use IDEA and then tell you what's so great about
it. Just the first part will be a problem: typing "IDEA" into Google
results in nothing useful, even though two of the first 10 results point
to IntelliJ's website. What's an IntelliJ? Why doesn't the word "Java
IDE" show up in the titles of the pages that Google found? Every step
along the way, there are minor problems. They all add up to a bad out of
the box experience that does not accurately reflect just how cool IDEA
really is.

If you don't have an iPod, go get one and you will learn what a good out
of the box experience can be. (On a Mac at least; I don't know what it's
like to hook an iPod to a PC.) Just the packaging blew me away.

Creating a good out of the box experience isn't that hard. Creating an
excellent one might be, but you only need a good one to win the
competition with Eclipse since it's obvious that the Eclipse folks don't
care at all about it.


--
Erik Hanson

0

In article <29903387.1077230326351.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>,
charles decroes <spam@decroes.com> wrote:

Now really is the time to be creating more plugins. I hear everyone talk
about how great the eclipse plugins are. I have only done some minor work on
one plugin but,
is the plugin api stable now? Could we (the community) really start serious
work on plugins? I don't want to create a plugin just to find that the api
drastically changes next week.


If IDEA were to be able to use Eclipse plugins...

0

In article <ehanson-lists-7625AD.09153220022004@host98.intellij.net>,
Erik Hanson <ehanson-lists@eh.cdeh.org> wrote:

In article <20832774.1077163562954.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>,
Vinay Moharil <vmohar98@yahoo.com> wrote:

Eclipse:
JDK 1.5 plugin
Supposedly better plugin portfolio


In Eclipse, if you extract a method, it will find that same code in
other methods and extract that too.


I cannot believe I forgot to mention that. It is one of my most used
features in Eclipse. (I try to wait for re-use before extracting
methods, so one does get duplicates every now and then.)

Scott

0

In article <20832774.1077163562954.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>,
Vinay Moharil <vmohar98@yahoo.com> wrote:

Eclipse:
JDK 1.5 plugin
Supposedly better plugin portfolio


Also, "local rename" is pretty cool. You can rename a variable (or
method name presumably) without using a dialog box. You just start
typing and it gets renamed everywhere in the class, as you type.

It's really neat. Certainly, opening a dialog box to do the same thing
isn't a problem (though for us Mac users who are used to more direct
manipulation of things, it's nice), but it makes for a good demo. (In
fact, I saw it during an Eclipse demo the other night.)

It would be really nice if IDEA would allow that type of direct
manipulation and instant feedback for that feature as well as others.


--
Erik Hanson

0

In article <20832774.1077163562954.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>,
Vinay Moharil <vmohar98@yahoo.com> wrote:

IntelliJ:
Multiple output paths in one project
More granular find usages (including import filter)
More granular code reformating
More granular code coloring (field, local, parameter etc.)
Kick-ass diff and merge tool
Implemeted/Over-ridden method indicator
Ability to create as many projects from same content root
Extremely intelligent responsive and active (and occassionally humorous) user
community
Easier (in terms of menus and keymaps) navigation


Another one: support. You don't get technical support with Eclipse. I
don't know how much WSAD (IBM's commercial Eclipsed-based product that
presumably comes with support) costs, but probably a lot more than IDEA.

IntelliJ could really show off that aspect of their product by having a
chat window built into IDEA that connects to a chat room staffed by
IntelliJ support folks.

0

What is to support? Usually Google is all you need if there is an issue. Support is definitely not a criteria when choosing an IDE, at least for me.

0

In article <3670061.1077652661917.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>,
Vladimir Goncharov <vladimir.goncharov@citigroup.com> wrote:

What is to support? Usually Google is all you need if there is an issue.
Support is definitely not a criteria when choosing an IDE, at least for me.


Some companies won't buy software if it doesn't come with good support.

If your team is costing you $25K per day, spending a little extra money
to ensure that you can pick up the phone and get help might be worth it.

(I've worked on projects that must have cost more than $25K per day...
though I'm sure they could have been done a lot cheaper...)

0

I like and use IntelliJ, but not because of the customer service, support, etc.

Eclipse is free so you don't have to pay for it in a first place, on the other hand IDE is not a mission critical application and if God forbid and you can’t refractor it still not end of the world you can use notepad, textpad etc. and deliver on time. Usually people need support for hardware, application server, DB, JDBC drivers, etc. but not for an IDE. I can't recall ever calling for support on Jbuilder, Intellij or any other IDE except for the licensing issue. I’m not arguing that support is nice to have but I really doubt that this is criteria for choosing an IDE.

0

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