New Settings Layout


Very nice. Compact, clear, elegant, keyboard-friendly, and expressive. Much more sensible to combine applications and project settings on one panel than to combine project settings and configuration. My only question is why the "Options" menu still exists at all. Surely "Path Macros" belongs on the Settings panel, and "Settings" only under the "File" menu.

--Dave

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Two problems though,

1) dialog is not modal
2) project properties cannot be accessed using keyboard
because of duplicate shortcuts

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On 12/15/03 8:46 PM, in article
916220.1071510387004.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost, "Dave Griffith"
<dave.griffith@cnn.com> wrote:


Very nice. Compact, clear, elegant, keyboard-friendly, and expressive. Much
more sensible to combine applications and project settings on one panel than
to combine project settings and configuration. My only question is why the
"Options" menu still exists at all. Surely "Path Macros" belongs on the
Settings panel, and "Settings" only under the "File" menu.

--Dave


Just because "Path Macros" yet to be refactored the way it could be inserted
to Settings dialog. The same concerns Configure Project action from the File
menu. Options menu is going to disappear.

--
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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Problem 1 seems to be intended behaviour, useful for people with 2 displays, I guess.

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On 12/15/03 9:00 PM, in article
10981117.1071511221373.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost, "Frank Bruch"
<no_mail@jetbrains.com> wrote:

Problem 1 seems to be intended behaviour, useful for people with 2 displays, I
guess.

You're quite right.

And the second problem is solved by pressing Shift+]]>. Agreed, this
is not obvious. But tooltip that appears when hovering over buttons should
help new users to find the clue.

--
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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3) GUI blooper: Settings is duplicated in the File and the Options menu.

Tom

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On 12/15/03 9:07 PM, in article brkssd$io3$1@is.intellij.net, "Thomas
Singer" <idea@NOregnisSpam.de> wrote:

duplicated in

See my reply to Dave's message. Options menu is going to disappear.

--
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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Yeah, I like it too.

Nitpicking: I just think some of the dialogs are a little too tall and might look better if they were reworked to be wider instead.

e.g. 3: Editor, 0: File Types, A: TODO

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For 2) Try Shift+Number.

HTH,
Andrei

"Frank Bruch" <no_mail@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:14493605.1071510860423.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost...

Two problems though,

>

1) dialog is not modal
2) project properties cannot be accessed using keyboard
because of duplicate shortcuts



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Dave Griffith wrote:

Very nice. Compact, clear, elegant, keyboard-friendly, and expressive. Much more sensible to combine applications and project settings on one panel than to combine project settings and configuration. My only question is why the "Options" menu still exists at all. Surely "Path Macros" belongs on the Settings panel, and "Settings" only under the "File" menu.

--Dave

+10000000

This is nice stuff. Modules are much better too

R

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On 12/15/03 9:04 PM, in article
5306915.1071511443092.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost, "Mark Lee"
<no_mail@jetbrains.com> wrote:

Yeah, I like it too.

Nitpicking: I just think some of the dialogs are a little too tall and might
look better if they were reworked to be wider instead.

e.g. 3: Editor, 0: File Types, A: TODO

Agreed
--
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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Not being modal strikes me as a feature, not a bug.

--Dave

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Ah, I see. That's good.
I like the new concept.

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Cool. Next release of InspectionGadgets will move the "InspectionGadgets Error Highlighting" checkbox under the "Tools" menu, then, ideally right after "View Offline Inspection Results..."

--Dave

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Dave Griffith <dave.griffith@cnn.com> wrote:

Compact, clear, elegant, keyboard-friendly, and expressive.


Well, I don't agree. Yes it is compact but it there's too many icons to
easily find the one you are looking for. If they do it the Mac way, why
not do it completely that way and add some separators to group the
icons?

Dirk Dittert

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On 12/15/03 10:00 PM, in article
1g60wmd.luy7361ye13sxN%dittert@despammed.com, "Dirk Dittert"
<dittert@despammed.com> wrote:

Dave Griffith <dave.griffith@cnn.com> wrote:

>> Compact, clear, elegant, keyboard-friendly, and expressive.


Well, I don't agree. Yes it is compact but it there's too many icons to
easily find the one you are looking for. If they do it the Mac way, why
not do it completely that way and add some separators to group the
icons?

Dirk Dittert


What groups would you suggest? (except existing IDE/Project groups)

--
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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Dave Griffith wrote:

>Very nice. Compact, clear, elegant, keyboard-friendly, and expressive.
>

I couldn't disagree more : I HATE IT.

All those icons in one panel, it's a pain in the eyes. I HATE IT.

Whenever a new build was published, I used to browse through all the
settings in a minute.
It was easy : click on the top icon, the $

to change panel.

Now, it's mouse, keyboard, each panel has a different size, etc .. I
HATE IT.
I'd agree to pay more for my license, if they remore this sore.

Alain

PS: I HATE IT.

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I think it should be resizable, and also there is a small problem with the Project Settings->Compiler dialog.

If you are in the dialog and hit ESC, nothing happens. It should cancel the dialog.

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Andre Mermegas wrote:

>I think it should be resizable, and also there is a small problem with the Project Settings->Compiler dialog.
>If you are in the dialog and hit ESC, nothing happens. It should cancel the dialog.

>


It's not the size of the dialogs I hate the much, it's the new design.
It's much much less effective than the old one :

- harder to read (locate icon x : ? on what line ?? on what column ??)
it used to be : start on row 1, and go down, till you find it.

- harder to use : try visit all the panels, to locate an option for
which you are not sure of the location.
it used to be :
-click on the 1st icon, and read the panel on the right.
- press to change panels
repeat till you're done.

Now, you click on a icon, it opens a dialog of a different size, you
read it,
you must close it,
find the next icon, click it,
etc...

It's highly inefficient.


Alain

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Alain Ravet wrote:

Dave Griffith wrote:

>> Very nice. Compact, clear, elegant, keyboard-friendly, and expressive.

I couldn't disagree more : I HATE IT.


Absolutely agree! At first I liked it's look. To my taste it looks rather better
than the old one. But it's much less convenient to use than the old layout and
in fact quite annoying!

--
Dmitry Skavish
JetBrains, Inc. / "Develop with pleasure!"

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Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) <max@intellij.com> wrote:

What groups would you suggest? (except existing IDE/Project groups)


(just a first draft, without particular ordering)

General
- General
- Appearance
- Todo
- Debugger
- Local history

Code editing
- Editor
- Completion
- Errors
- Colors&Fonts
- Code style
- Keymap
- Live Templates

Files
- File types
- File Templates

External Resources
- Resources
- External Tools
- Weblogic

But I guess the group can come up with a better grouping. It may make
sense to make a group Files & External Resources to avoid those two
small groups. The overall design could be similar to the Mac OS System
preferences dialog.

Additionally, I'd suggest a keyboard icon for keymap. I don't associate
star with keymap. I haven't decided about the live templates and file
templates icon yet.

I really like this build. Did you do performance optimizations in the
editor?

Dirk Dittert

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I HATE it too.
Just try to locate particulad group of settings - it takes plenty of time. You need to look closely at every icon. Earlier you could just quickly click and see if the content on right pane is what you need.

ONE MORE ISSUE - previously it remembered the last chosen tab what was incredibly convenient. Now this feature is gone...

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+1 I don't like it either. Bring back the old settings dialog with the icons on the left scroll panel. Use a tabbed panel or just a separator to divide the system settings and the project settings.

I hope you are still planning on integrating the 'Configure Project' into the project settings..

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-1000 in usability here to.

In windows, the first thing I customize is view folder contents as list
intead of as icons.

Also, as Alain wrote, opening a panel for each group is a step down in
usability.

Very pretty though :)

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I think they r trying to resolve the problem that the setting dialog is getting bigger and bigger. but i still like the old still, i can just click the icon to browse through the setting instead click an icon the click ok or cancel then another icon....

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I like the idea, I think I understand the negative reaction because we've all been monkeytrained on the right location for things like error reporting, so haven't had to read the labels for years. I do think though that there are some usability issues:

The default project template dialog also feels a bit awkward and duplicated. Maybe that should be in the control panel, with the top level being general settings, then defaults, then project specific?

The configure project panel should also be launchable via project properties, with a 'modules' button perhaps on the control panel.

The UI feels like a poor man's OSX preferences page, without the user interaction behaviour. For example, with OSX prefs and the old approach, you could apply/dismiss a panel by hitting OK. Now you have to dismiss, then close the control panel. I dunno how easy it'd be, but something like the OSX one would be quite pleasant, with 'show all' at the top and some common shortcuts, and the main body pane would be the contents of a particular panel if selected, or the current control panel if not.

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Same with Color BTW

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> Well, I don't agree. Yes it is compact but it there's too many icons
> to easily find the one you are looking for.

Dirk, I'm with you. I see two problems:
1) It's harder to find the right option.
2) When you closed a dialog, you do not know, where you already were.

I much more prefer the way OpenOffice arranges it's options.

Tom

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Alain, I completely agree with you.

I have the hope, this was just a small experiment and the developers
will give us a much better solution in the next build. This settings UI
is incredible unusable.

Tom

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Hani Suleiman <hani@formicary.net> wrote:

The UI feels like a poor man's OSX preferences page, without the user
interaction behaviour. For example, with OSX prefs and the old approach,
you could apply/dismiss a panel by hitting OK. Now you have to dismiss,
then close the control panel. I dunno how easy it'd be, but something
like the OSX one would be quite pleasant, with 'show all' at the top and
some common shortcuts, and the main body pane would be the contents of a
particular panel if selected, or the current control panel if not.


You're right. But OS X control panel goes even further: you can drag
preferences to the top to keep it as a shortcut. I am not sure if
resizing the dialog is such a good idea. It is common in OS X but it's
something you usually don't see on Windows. I guess there'll be a lot of
complaints if IntelliJ implements that behaviour. Especially as there
are a lot of different sized dialogs which causes a lot of resizing.

Dirk Dittert

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Just to give the non-OS X users an idea how that dialog looks like.



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