Messages out of order

Hi,

I realize that this message is slightly off topic to this forum, but it
affects this forum. Could you guys (from St. Petersburg) look into it,
and forward to the right person/group?

I use Thunderbird as my news reader. All messages posted from St.
Petersburg development center, sorted by time, appear out of order.
Thunderbird displays them using MSD time, not my local time (I'm in San
Francisco area), so they have a time in the future.

I posted the question to
server: news.mozilla.org
group: mozilla.support.thunderbird
subject: Incorrect message time in newsgroup

Someone gave good explanation what's going on.
Below message is slightly wrong (MSD is a valid timezone).
The point is, that the headers coming from St. Petersburg center are
incorrect (at least not according to standard).

Tom

Forwarded message ===>>>
-


After subscribing to that server/group, and then poking around the
forums on their website, I think I've figured out the problem.

Here are the headers from a message posted through the news server:

From: Dmitry Jemerov Newsgroups: jetbrains.intellij.eap Subject: Re: IDEA Hangs Scanning a Particular Directory + Other AnomalousBehaviors Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 11:18:34 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <431b0f664fc2d8c9c10bd2658f1c@news.jetbrains.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.1.147 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 11:18:29 +0000 (UTC) And here are headers from a message posted through the forums: From: NetSurfer Newsgroups: jetbrains.intellij.eap Subject: New Reference Card Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:18:06 MSD Message-ID: <3501678.1189333116649.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.intellij.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 10:18:36 +0000 (UTC) I've snipped out irrelevant headers. Now, lets look at whats happening here. In the first message, looking at the Date header, we see that it is properly formatted: Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 11:18:34 +0000 (UTC) That message displays in TB as 9/9/2007 7:18 AM, which it should, as my timezone is -0400 (EDT). The second message, however, has a problem, as someone else mentioned in this thread: Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:18:06 MSD TB displays that one as 9/9/2007 2:18 PM, exactly as it is in the header. MSD, to my knowledge, is not a valid timezone identifier. Without a valid timezone identifier or offset specified, it appears that TB is ignoring it, and using the date & time, without modification. I'm guessing that the other clients are probably detecting that there is no valid timezone/offset, and falling back to the NNTP-Posting-Date: header for the display of the date/time, which is properly formatted: NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 11:18:29 +0000 (UTC) What I discovered, in poking around their forums, is that they are running a gateway between the forums and the news server. This will copy forum posts to the news server, and vice-versa. This is evident from the headers. If we compare the Message-ID & NNTP-Posting-Host headers from each message, we can see the difference. From the "good" post: Message-ID: <431b0f664fc2d8c9c10bd2658f1c@news.jetbrains.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.1.147 From the "bad" post: Message-ID: <3501678.1189333116649.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>]]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.intellij.net

Notice how the "bad" post Message-ID contains 'JavaMail.itn', and the
NNTP-Posting-Host is 'mail.intellij.net'?

I checked several posts, and any post containing 'JavaMail.itn' in the
Message-ID header showed the same, flawed timezone, MSD. Those posts
also all had the same NNTP-Posting-Host, 'mail.intellij.net'. Another
common feature was that the email address in the From header was
'no_reply@jetbrains.com'.

Messages that were posted directly to the news server, rather than the
forum, showed the correct date formatting, different posting hosts, and
different email addresses, as would be expected.

So, it appears to me, that the problem lies with the JavaMail gateway,
their configuration of it, or whatever kind of script they run on the
forum to facilitate pushing the posts to the news server, as one of
those would be responsible for creating the Date header that is sent to
the news server.

As to TB, is it a bug, or is it simply adhering to the standards, much
like broken HTML will not display properly in FF?

-- Alex K.

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Hello Tom!

Thank you for your investigations, it saves a lot of time for me. :)
It seems to be bug in ThunderBird, because MSD it's standard timezone
"Moscow Summer Time".
http://www.worldtimezone.com/wtz-names/wtz-msd.html
Our servers configured to work in this zone, so Jive Forums posts messages
with this timezone.

--
Sergey Zhukov
Chief System Administrator
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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Sergey Zhukov (JetBrains) wrote:

Hello Tom!

Thank you for your investigations, it saves a lot of time for me. :)
It seems to be bug in ThunderBird, because MSD it's standard timezone
"Moscow Summer Time".
http://www.worldtimezone.com/wtz-names/wtz-msd.html
Our servers configured to work in this zone, so Jive Forums posts messages
with this timezone.


Sergey,

This subject is slightly off topic to this forum, so please e-mail me
directly: tompa dot home at sbglobal dot net
Or, probably better, would be if you can join discussion on
mozilla.support.thunderbird newsgroup.
I've beaten this subject to death on mozilla forum before I posted my
message here.
You are right that MSD is a valid time zone abbreviation.
At the same time it is not a bug in Thunderbird. TB simply follows
standards.
It expects headers like this:
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 11:18:34 +0000 (UTC)
but not:
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:18:06 MSD
The second happens when the message is posted through the forum, and
than you move it to the news server. If messages are posted directly to
the news server, then everything is OK.
Outlook Express also doesn't handle it. Its time is always one hour off
the TB time.
Only Opera is smart enough to understand nonstandard format.

Tom

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