Remarcs to GUI designer implementation

I have tried using GUI designer in order to create one dialog, and after
using it for some time, I'd like to propose some remarcs concerning
current implementation(833).

I start a new thread, because I wasn't able to find thread, devoted to
actual problems with using GUI designer, and not discussions, what kind
of GUI designer we need.

One of the hardest thing in usage of GUI designer was moving around the
composite entities (several components, that are united together). The
reason for this is that there is no space between frame(selectable
border) for union of components and frame of united components. This
leads to the situation, when I want to select a composite component in
order to move it, I finish selecting individual component inside.
I think, that such behaviour should be modified, either buy disallowing
selecting individual components inside (notion of grouped images in
VISIO) or by creating some gap between border of component-container and
contained components (The view in GUI designer will be different for
WISIWYG view, but we mostly need logical view of location of components.
Preview of actual form look can be provided sepatetedly).

Other point is that I haven't found any way to specify the font for the
dialog in GUI designer. And dialog with default font doesn't look very nice.

It seems to me, that for properties like text in label, it is desirable
to have also a multiline text editor, as in HTML is a valid content of
such field, and it is not very convinient always to specify it in
one-line field.

Also, it is desirable to have support of Cut and paste operations in GUI
designer.

When performing delete operation, that in case of deleting composite
component, it will be good to ask, "Are you sure? All contained
components will be also deleted", because otherwise it can lead to quite
a big frustation of user.

Friendly

Sergey Yevtushenko

17 comments
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>Other point is that I haven't found any way to specify the font for the
>dialog in GUI designer. And dialog with default font doesn't look very nice.

This is the reason, why I vote(d) against tweaking properties. One
will tweak a font here and a pixel there and waste a lot of time for
nothing.

Solution: You do not need to tweak the font in the dialog (== GUI
builder), you should tweak it in the LookAndFeel (exact:
UIManager.getLookAndFeelDefaults()) instead.

Tom

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Thomas Singer wrote:
>>Other point is that I haven't found any way to specify the font for the
>>dialog in GUI designer. And dialog with default font doesn't look very nice.


This is the reason, why I vote(d) against tweaking properties. One
will tweak a font here and a pixel there and waste a lot of time for
nothing.

Solution: You do not need to tweak the font in the dialog (== GUI
builder), you should tweak it in the LookAndFeel (exact:
UIManager.getLookAndFeelDefaults()) instead.

Tom


I'm totally agree. IMHO it's very bad practice to change font for some
particular components. But anyway we are going to implement editors for
font and color bean properties.

Best regards,
Vladimir Kondratyev
_____________________
JetBrains

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Sergey Yevtushenko wrote:

One of the hardest thing in usage of GUI designer was moving around the
composite entities (several components, that are united together). The
reason for this is that there is no space between frame(selectable
border) for union of components and frame of united components. This
leads to the situation, when I want to select a composite component in
order to move it, I finish selecting individual component inside.
I think, that such behaviour should be modified, either buy disallowing
selecting individual components inside (notion of grouped images in
VISIO) or by creating some gap between border of component-container and
contained components (The view in GUI designer will be different for
WISIWYG view, but we mostly need logical view of location of components.
Preview of actual form look can be provided sepatetedly).


You are right. Current implementation is not convenient for dragging of
containers. We know it and there is already request in the tracker.
I fond that MS Word allows quite nice way for dragging of tables by
showing small "dragger" at the top left corner. Perhaps we will
implement similar functionality inside IDEA.

Best regards,
Vladimir Kondratyev
_____________________
JetBrains

0
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But anyway we are going to implement editors for
font and color bean properties.


You mean, my idea to use the GUI builder just to define the layout
visually isn't that good?

Tom

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You mean, my idea to use the GUI builder just to define the layout
visually isn't that good?

>

Tom


I think this is a case of "everyone else changes colors/etc in the gui
editor" :)


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Hello Gentlemen

Please file GUI Designer bug
Create new form;
create JTextField;
set text property to Cyrillic word (in my case "?????");
exit Idea; start Idea;
now text appears as five squares.
--
Best regards,
Michael

PS Who knows, what should I do if I've forgotten my ITN login? It's rather
ridiculous: I do remember my long password, but short login...alas, it's
gone ;(


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Michael Kutuzov wrote:

Hello Gentlemen

Please file GUI Designer bug
Create new form;
create JTextField;
set text property to Cyrillic word (in my case "?????");
exit Idea; start Idea;
now text appears as five squares.
--
Best regards,
Michael



This bug is already fixed. Guillaume Laforge was the first who found
this problem :)

Regards,
Vladimir Kondratyev
_____________________
JetBrains


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>I think this is a case of "everyone else changes colors/etc in the gui
>editor" :)

Really? I think, its like MS Word and LaTeX: in Word you can tweak
everything (it's the obvious solution), where in LaTeX you (mostly)
just describe what you want (not that much, how it should look like).
What's better? Take a look at some birthday-party-invitation-cards you
get from a new computer/Word user and a LaTeX generated documentation.
What's more IDEA-like? LaTeX, because it lets you do the work (write
the documentation) instead of wasting time tweaking a color here and a
font there. The point is to not offer too much changable properties
to the user.

Tom

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Thomas Singer wrote:
>>But anyway we are going to implement editors for
>>font and color bean properties.


You mean, my idea to use the GUI builder just to define the layout
visually isn't that good?

Tom


No, I mean that we will implement editing of font and color properties.

With best wishes,
Vladimir Kondratyev
_____________________
JetBrains

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>No, I mean that we will implement editing of font and color properties.

And you mean, that it makes sense? Or do you implement it just,
because other GUI designers also allow to edit these properties?

Tom

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On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:10:29 +0200, Sergey Yevtushenko wrote:

One of the hardest thing in usage of GUI designer was moving around the
composite entities (several components, that are united together). The
reason for this is that there is no space between frame(selectable border)
for union of components and frame of united components. This leads to the
situation, when I want to select a composite component in order to move
it, I finish selecting individual component inside. I think, that such
behaviour should be modified, either buy disallowing selecting individual
components inside (notion of grouped images in VISIO) or by creating some
gap between border of component-container and
contained components (The view in GUI designer will be different for
WISIWYG view, but we mostly need logical view of location of components.
Preview of actual form look can be provided sepatetedly).


One thing I liked in the Glade UI designer, is that the context menu for
any object, repeated for any "parent" object as submenus, ie:

-+-

- Cut

- Copy

- Paste

--

- Cut

- Copy

- Paste

--
|- Cut
|- Copy
|- Paste

This allows a fairly simple way of selecting/manipulated parent objects.





--
...turn to the light - don't be frightened by the shadows it creates,
...turn to the light - turning away could be a terrible mistake
...dream theater - the great debate


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On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:25:05 +0200, Thomas Singer wrote:

Solution: You do not need to tweak the font in the dialog (== GUI
builder), you should tweak it in the LookAndFeel (exact:
UIManager.getLookAndFeelDefaults()) instead.


Mmm, LookAndFeel Designer? That could be novel ;) And adventurous for
IntelliJ to make a difference.


--
...turn to the light - don't be frightened by the shadows it creates,
...turn to the light - turning away could be a terrible mistake
...dream theater - the great debate


0
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On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:41:02 +0200, Thomas Singer wrote:

Really? I think, its like MS Word and LaTeX: in Word you can tweak
everything (it's the obvious solution), where in LaTeX you (mostly) just
describe what you want (not that much, how it should look like). What's
better? Take a look at some birthday-party-invitation-cards you get from a
new computer/Word user and a LaTeX generated documentation. What's more
IDEA-like? LaTeX, because it lets you do the work (write the
documentation) instead of wasting time tweaking a color here and a font
there. The point is to not offer too much changable properties to the
user.


I'd like to see Idea take a big of both, components can be assigned a
named visual "look", which is tweaked in a central place. Could maybe
have default "groups" but "button style", "editor style" ( fixed font, pt
10, antialiased" etc. etc.

--
...turn to the light - don't be frightened by the shadows it creates,
...turn to the light - turning away could be a terrible mistake
...dream theater - the great debate


0
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Thomas Singer wrote:
>>No, I mean that we will implement editing of font and color properties.


And you mean, that it makes sense? Or do you implement it just,
because other GUI designers also allow to edit these properties?

Tom


Personally I think that it has no sense in most cases. But it's not a
reason not implement such properties. I can imagine that it very usefull
for UI prototyping, etc. For example we can implement relative font
changing (+1, -2, for example) that allows to easily create cross
LookAndFeel UIs.

Best regards,
Vladimir
_____________
JetBrains

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Hello Vladimir

"Vladimir Kondratyev" <vova@intellij.com> wrote:

...
Please file GUI Designer bug

This bug is already fixed.


Thanx ;)
Now I see Tracker again (thanks to Tibor Mlynarik for his assistance)
and at last have found the above issue.

Guillaume Laforge was the first who found this problem :)


Yep, "russian hunter is a bad hunter..." etc ;))


...BTW, didn't anybody suggest to drag&drop vidgets from toolbar
to form area (in addition to clicking)?? Couldn't find such a request in
Tracker (tried to search {title&description contains "UI drag" AND
type = "feature"} and {title&description contains "UI drag" AND
type = "cosmetics"})...

--
Best regards,
Michael



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Guillaume Laforge was the first who found this problem :)

Yep, "russian hunter is a bad hunter..." etc ;))


It seems that French hunters are not that bad !!! ;)

...BTW, didn't anybody suggest to drag&drop vidgets from toolbar
to form area (in addition to clicking)?? Couldn't find such a request in
Tracker (tried to search {title&description contains "UI drag" AND
type = "feature"} and {title&description contains "UI drag" AND
type = "cosmetics"})...


AFAIK, that's right, there no such request in the tracker currently, but
it's worth creating one
I don't really like clicking twice, I'd prefer drag'n drop.

Guillaume Laforge


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Bonsoir!

"Guillaume Laforge" <glaforge@reflexe.fr> wrote:

Guillaume Laforge was the first who found this problem :)

Yep, "russian hunter is a bad hunter..." etc ;))

]]>I meant me personally here ;) And BTW it's well-known russian
anecdote</rem>

It seems that French hunters are not that bad !!! ;)

Bon mot, Guillaume ;) But... let's keep on hunting ;))

>

...BTW, didn't anybody suggest to drag&drop vidgets from toolbar
to form area (in addition to clicking)??
...

AFAIK, that's right, there no such request in the tracker currently, but
it's worth creating one


Done.

--
Best regards,
Michael


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