I miss the EAP old days :-(

(sorry for double ppost... did not mean to put this in Tracker: IDEA Features in the first place!)
hi all.

I have been reading and contributing to these forums/mailinglist for a long time now. And I must say that I am rather disapointed with how serious and critical everyone is becomming in these forums.

There was a time when comming to these forums was refreshing. The exchanges were creative, fun, and challenging. Philosophical issues about how should an IDE function; discussions on how our lives could be rendered simpler if IDEA did something no-one else provided; and completely insane ideas, were all quite common.

There used to be a community feeling here, and I fear it's disapearing!

These days all I see is bug-reports, vailed critisism of IDEA's planned features, or feature request offset with threats to Intellij. I am not saying that these do not have their place in these forums. Rather I think they miss the point of these forums.

Instead of worrying about Intellij IDEA becomming just another big corporation IDE we should be worring about us, it's users, what are we becomming? I miss the feature wish-lists, the +1's, the-100's, and funky discussions that used to be so common.

I also think that Intellij would profit more from constructive critisism and off-the-wall imagination than from "I will never use this feature if you implement it like this..." or "It would be nice if IDEA worked exactly the same way we work in my company..." type of discussions.

Maybe I am wrong and the EAP user-base has just gotten to big for that freindly community feeling there used to be!

And finally clearly understand that i do not wish to suggest that anyone be sencored or not allowed to express themselves...

thanks,

Florian Hehlen

41 comments

Florian Hehlen wrote:

The other reason is that I find that I am most productive as a developer if I can stay within one environment to do as many tasks as possible. I avoid distractions and avoid breaking my work-flow and sometimes complexe dev/debugging screen layout.


I kind of see your point. Once the web browser is open, I just need to
go to this site. And maybe also to that site. And that one, too. ;)

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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There is two reasons why i want the commander.

>



The other reason is that I find that I am most
productive as a developer if I can stay within one
environment to do as many tasks as possible. I avoid
distractions and avoid breaking my work-flow and
sometimes complexe dev/debugging screen layout.


My experience, on the contrary, is that the more an application gets crowded with functionality, the less easy it becomes to navigate between these functionalities within the application (even though the navigation possibilities in IDEA are among the best I have met so far). I find it a lot more efficient to have a handful of "specialized" applications open (IDE, console, Windows Explorer, Web browser, mp3 player) between which I can easily switch using Alt-Tab and in which I can easily perform their respective "core" tasks.

Regards,
Jens

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I

avoid

distractions and avoid breaking my work-flow and
sometimes complexe dev/debugging screen layout.

I find it a lot more
efficient to have a handful of "specialized"
applications open (IDE, console, Windows Explorer,
Web browser, mp3 player) between which I can easily
switch using Alt-Tab and in which I can easily
perform their respective "core" tasks.



I agree with you that IDEA should not do everything... but for me file management is a "core" feature of development. Wether we are talking about source control, editing config/property/data files, wether we are talking about backing up files, moving them to shared directory for a collegue to look at, deploying manually cause not everything warrants an ant script be made for it, or just simply deleteing all the compiled code in the classes directory because i need to be 101% sure that the latest comiled version is the LATEST.

And what I think IDEA can do is make that file management project aware. So I don't have to search through a huge tree for the location where shared files are hiding: Documents, idl's, deployment directories, etc.

Florian

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Which amuses me, because for a company selling a top-notch XP/Agile/whatever you want that's hot IDE, they don't seam to be much in:

  • jUnit testing

  • usage of clover to check the coverage

  • continous integration (every week isn't much of continous integration)


the first two points are just my personal POV based on various bugs that come and go with each new release.

unless i'm mistaken ?

Cedric

ps 'tis true that it ain't easy :o)

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  • jUnit testing

  • usage of clover to check the coverage

  • continous integration (every week isn't much of continous integration)


You forgot Jemmy-testing, because it's a GUI application.

Tom

0

Well I have to disagree...

releasing functional builds every week is continuous integration...

... when you consider that it takes years in some it companies i know to change from one minor jvm version to an other!

... when most big software corps release 3-4 beta's every 18 month...

... it's all relative... But I think that once a week is plenty, and really more than enough.

Otherwise the next next step will be to make Intellij's individual developers compile directories available on the web so that we can get the latest build every hour! :)

florian

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Hourly build seams excessive, but a daily/nightly build would be cool.

that way those who are on the other side of the planet can test the new release will intellij developpers sleep :o)

the aim of eap is to have the most recent version, it doesn't have to be mile stone. Once a week seams like a milestone to me.

furthermore it might give some punch to the developpers: i have to release this for tonight, which is adding slightly more pressure than, oh i'll do this for friday nite :o)

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well yes hourly is excessive! I was just joking...

Daily builds seem like to much to me. I like to use EAP builds for my none-critical but real development efforts. That way I put it through real life tests... it's not exaustive but that's the most i can afford to do. And I am not sure that the purpose of EAP is for users to do exaustive testing anyways. It's much more for us to push it to those exotic limits that the standard/unit tests that they have not put the app through.... Anyone running IDEA on an Amiga out there :)

Plus... I like the wait for a new EAP build. It's like a "gift" every one to two weeks with new features. If i got it everyday it would be over-kill... for me that is.

Finally... i suspect that if Intellij delivers EAPs every week or so then they probably build internally every 1-2 days... so maybe they could just provide access to the bleeding edge builds for the truely masocists in the bunch!

:)

Florian

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Florian,

I mostly agree with you. I think, new features within two weeks are
enough. But intermediate, faster released builds, that concentrate on
fixing major bugs make sense.
For me, no current EAP version was usable for serious development,
because each one contained one or another major bug. More worse, even
the latest release versions contain a major debug-bug (not fully
reproducible with a test project), so I need to use Eclipse at the
moment.

I remember the good old EAP days 1 1/2 or 2 years ago, where after a
few days new versions appear with mostly all major bugs of the
previous version fixed and with new cool features.

Tom

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Lots of nostalgic depressing "old" IDEA users here !!
Come on !
IDEA has evolved, more users equals more feadback, more feature requests, more enhancements, so it can never be like it was before, when everything was calm and quiet
Also, Java has taken a much more important place in the market, in particular thanks to J2EE, and the needs are different than they were before. More stress for the developers, and a strong need for a stable IDE. The forum might not be as funny as before, IDEA might not be as light as it used to be, but hell, this is the price you pay for success !
Cheer up, and enjoy IDEA !! ;)

dAn/

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Hi.

Not sad... no. I started this thread and I am not sad about the situation that Intellij is in. I am just eager to see this forum stay humanised.

For me the users are as important as the company in keeping a product good. And I have rarely seen such a good IDE/development tool as IDEA.

So if I have a wish is for people to enjoy what we have and contribute positively to making IDEA even better. This might all sound sappy and cliched. But I have spent enough time in my IT career on support/user relations to know that htere is nothing worse for a developer if all that comes through from users is negative. I am not saying that all is negative... just encouraging the folks to remember that IDEA actually has no obligation to listen to us... and will have even less as they get bigger and more popular.

So if we want to keep communication open between Intellij and us we have to take care of this privilage we have.

ok.... enough clich?s for now....

Florian

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