I miss the EAP old days :-(

(sorry for double ppost... did not mean to put this in Tracker: IDEA Features in the first place!)
hi all.

I have been reading and contributing to these forums/mailinglist for a long time now. And I must say that I am rather disapointed with how serious and critical everyone is becomming in these forums.

There was a time when comming to these forums was refreshing. The exchanges were creative, fun, and challenging. Philosophical issues about how should an IDE function; discussions on how our lives could be rendered simpler if IDEA did something no-one else provided; and completely insane ideas, were all quite common.

There used to be a community feeling here, and I fear it's disapearing!

These days all I see is bug-reports, vailed critisism of IDEA's planned features, or feature request offset with threats to Intellij. I am not saying that these do not have their place in these forums. Rather I think they miss the point of these forums.

Instead of worrying about Intellij IDEA becomming just another big corporation IDE we should be worring about us, it's users, what are we becomming? I miss the feature wish-lists, the +1's, the-100's, and funky discussions that used to be so common.

I also think that Intellij would profit more from constructive critisism and off-the-wall imagination than from "I will never use this feature if you implement it like this..." or "It would be nice if IDEA worked exactly the same way we work in my company..." type of discussions.

Maybe I am wrong and the EAP user-base has just gotten to big for that freindly community feeling there used to be!

And finally clearly understand that i do not wish to suggest that anyone be sencored or not allowed to express themselves...

thanks,

Florian Hehlen

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On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 11:44:42 +0000, Florian Hehlen wrote:

I also think that Intellij would profit more from constructive critisism
and off-the-wall imagination than from "I will never use this feature if
you implement it like this..." or "It would be nice if IDEA worked exactly
the same way we work in my company..." type of discussions.


Well said. Lots of bug reports are a good thing, but I do tire of all the
negative comments about weather the Jetbrains guys should, or should not
have released EAP version x with feature y. I'm glad of the regular EAPs,
its like being back with my Open Source buddies, only I don't get to break
the code myself :)

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Speaking of which, wouldn't it be great if IDEA could control the weather? ;)

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Florian Hehlen wrote:

I have been reading and contributing to these forums/mailinglist for a long time now. And I must say that I am rather disapointed with how serious and critical everyone is becomming in these forums.


+10

Jon

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Florian Hehlen wrote:

There was a time when comming to these forums was refreshing. The exchanges were creative, fun, and challenging. Philosophical issues about how should an IDE function; discussions on how our lives could be rendered simpler if IDEA did something no-one else provided; and completely insane ideas, were all quite common.


go ahead, I am always more than willing to join an insane discussion* ;)

For a starter, I would like to know what you are doing with IDEA. How
are you using it, what are the reasons that no other IDE can take its place.

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert


-


*) and no, I don't want to insult you of just writing insane things...

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"Florian Hehlen" <florian.hehlen@ubsw.com> wrote in message
news:30396536.1049370282326.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost...

(sorry for double ppost... did not mean to put this in Tracker: IDEA

Features in the first place!)

hi all.

>

I have been reading and contributing to these forums/mailinglist for a

long time now. And I must say that I am rather disapointed with how serious
and critical everyone is becomming in these forums.
>

There was a time when comming to these forums was refreshing. The

exchanges were creative, fun, and challenging. Philosophical issues about
how should an IDE function; discussions on how our lives could be rendered
simpler if IDEA did something no-one else provided; and completely insane
ideas, were all quite common.
>

There used to be a community feeling here, and I fear it's disapearing!

>

These days all I see is bug-reports, vailed critisism of IDEA's planned

features, or feature request offset with threats to Intellij. I am not
saying that these do not have their place in these forums. Rather I think
they miss the point of these forums.

I would say, that harsh criticism is OK among friends, that is why we make
up later :) I posted couple of intolerant posts by myself, and I wish I did
it better. So, Intellij guys, please forgive me for that.

But crazy and fun discussion would be nice, I am totally onboard. Just put
some /FUN/ or /MISC/ prefix so it could be later deleted :))

Another thing is that it is not an open source community, people pay for the
product and expect it to meet their expectations. Duh, I paid for it myself.
It is the first piece of software that I bought. Oh, no, the first was
crossfading Winamp plugin :)

Michael J.


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Russell Egan wrote:

Speaking of which, wouldn't it be great if IDEA could control the weather? ;)


Yeah. Then I could get rid of all this snow, -8 wind chills and other
assorted cruft and hurry on to Spring and Summer 8)

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://java.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: 416-643-4846 | Fax: 416-594-1919

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Russell Egan wrote:

Speaking of which, wouldn't it be great if IDEA could control the weather? ;)


Maybe we could write a plugin... ;)

Vil.
--
Vilya Harvey, Consultant
vilya.harvey@digitalsteps.com / digital steps /
(W) +44 (0)1483 469 480
(M) +44 (0)7816 678 457 http://www.digitalsteps.com/

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Maybe one of the reasons for this was the big push by the IntelliJ folks
to get all the feature requests and discussion that used to be on
eap-features into the tracker. Now instead of +1 or -1 we have votes
(although we don't have negative votes... hrmmm). One other possibility
is that a lot of the discussion in earlier EAPs (2.0!) was that IDEA
hadn't yet completed a lot of major functionality. Most of the
discussion back then was on agreeing how particular functionality should
or should not work.

I think that now, a lot of the new functionality is fairly
straightforward, and there aren't a lot of questions on how it should or
shouldn't work -- OR those questions and comments have been confined to
"bugs" in the tracker.

I also agree that with all the fame that IDEA has generated, there are a
lot of new people that see EAP = free software, instead of being the
community process that it had been.

Those of us who have been around through all the EAPs can and should let
people know when posts are or are not inappropriate (as was done in the
recent thread on malfunctioning CVS integration) and sure, post comments
about new features -- questions or +/- votes.

Obviously we can't kick non-productive members out of EAP, but again,
for those who have been here a while (IntelliJ folks included), you know
which people on the list are contributors and who are not (EAP Rewards
guys -- are you out there?).

Just my 2c.
Peter

Florian Hehlen wrote:

(sorry for double ppost... did not mean to put this in Tracker: IDEA Features in the first place!)
hi all.

I have been reading and contributing to these forums/mailinglist for a long time now. And I must say that I am rather disapointed with how serious and critical everyone is becomming in these forums.

There was a time when comming to these forums was refreshing. The exchanges were creative, fun, and challenging. Philosophical issues about how should an IDE function; discussions on how our lives could be rendered simpler if IDEA did something no-one else provided; and completely insane ideas, were all quite common.

There used to be a community feeling here, and I fear it's disapearing!

These days all I see is bug-reports, vailed critisism of IDEA's planned features, or feature request offset with threats to Intellij. I am not saying that these do not have their place in these forums. Rather I think they miss the point of these forums.

Instead of worrying about Intellij IDEA becomming just another big corporation IDE we should be worring about us, it's users, what are we becomming? I miss the feature wish-lists, the +1's, the-100's, and funky discussions that used to be so common.

I also think that Intellij would profit more from constructive critisism and off-the-wall imagination than from "I will never use this feature if you implement it like this..." or "It would be nice if IDEA worked exactly the same way we work in my company..." type of discussions.

Maybe I am wrong and the EAP user-base has just gotten to big for that freindly community feeling there used to be!

And finally clearly understand that i do not wish to suggest that anyone be sencored or not allowed to express themselves...

thanks,

Florian Hehlen


0
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Peter Mularien wrote:

Maybe one of the reasons for this was the big push by the IntelliJ folks
to get all the feature requests and discussion that used to be on
eap-features into the tracker.


But this is something where I am not completely sure if it is a good
thing. On the one hand it allows them to keep track of all the requests
without forgetting something that was mentioned between the lines in
some posting in the newsgroup. On the other hand, especially early EAP
builds, generate a lot of bug reports (see the reports for build #807
and #809 for example). For me it is difficult to decide whether to
report something or nor. Of course, I saw the new CVS integration but
didn't report bugs about that. For the simple reason that it obviously
is work in progress.

Now that I hear first requests to release the GUI builder to EAP I
have my doubts if this really will help Intellij to speed up
development. There must be somebody who reads all the bug posts and
evalutates which are important and need to be fixed right away.
Especially, if people (erm, like me for example) submit a lot of bugs
that are not reproducible). Maybe someone from Jetbrains feels like
commenting on that.

I think that now, a lot of the new functionality is fairly
straightforward, and there aren't a lot of questions


A lot of it is straight forward for you and for me. But I think,
documentation needs to be improved. And the learning curve for beginners
is still a problem. EJB, Webservices, AspectJ, Ant, CVS, JUnit, all
these things are powerfull tools but I believe it is very difficult for
somebody not familiar with Java to get into all that stuff. The
questions is, where IDEA is positioned in this market. I don't really
appreciate the Assistant-for-everything-approach and who reads tutorials
anyway. So I think this is a difficult thing. If there weren't the free
Eclipse, I would say that IDEA is perfect for a university setting.
Refactorings, the good support for documentation and CVS are the things
I need most ;)

I also agree that with all the fame that IDEA has generated, there are a
lot of new people that see EAP = free software, instead of being the
community process that it had been.


I don't agree with that. I remember my first EAP very well. At the end
of it, I decided to finally buy the product. I don't think that I would
have done that after a 15 day evaluation period. The community feeling
was a very important factor (i.e. the developers really care about the
things we don't like). But I better don't mention what the first project
for the IDE was...

Obviously we can't kick non-productive members out of EAP, but again,
for those who have been here a while (IntelliJ folks included), you know
which people on the list are contributors and who are not (EAP Rewards
guys -- are you out there?).


I haven't really seen that there are people in the community that cause
trouble. And if there were, I am sure that the Intellij folks would take
care of that.

By the way: is it Intellij or Jetbrains or ...

Enough for today...

Dirk Dittert














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On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 08:34:49 -0800, Michael Jouravlev wrote:

Another thing is that it is not an open source community, people pay for
the product and expect it to meet their expectations. Duh, I paid for it
myself. It is the first piece of software that I bought. Oh, no, the first
was crossfading Winamp plugin :)


I even switched from hacking on JEdit to using/buying Idea :p That must
say something.

I like that the EAP gives it a slight OSS feel, when I started using Idea
last year it was mid way in the EAP, and it was good to see that any bugs
or problems I reported, were fixed in a new EAP 2-3 days later... Made
the switch from JEdit quite pleasent :)

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On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:33:50 -0500, Dirk Dittert wrote:

Now that I hear first requests to release the GUI builder to EAP I
have my doubts if this really will help Intellij to speed up development.
There must be somebody who reads all the bug posts and evalutates which
are important and need to be fixed right away. Especially, if people (erm,
like me for example) submit a lot of bugs that are not reproducible).
Maybe someone from Jetbrains feels like commenting on that.


I think the best reason to put out the GUI Designer into EAP early, is
so that we, the developers who will ultimately end up using the thing, can
see what and how Jetbrains are handling it, and if we feel its wrong, or
dont like something, we -the customer- can make suggestions -before- the
product is finally shipped.

If its not totally stable for awhile, who cares - you're not using it at
present, so its not a "critical for me to continue using Idea" type thing.

I look forward to it...

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For me it is difficult to decide whether to
report something or nor. Of course, I saw the new CVS integration but
didn't report bugs about that. For the simple reason that it obviously
is work in progress.


IMHO, bug reporting is just a side effect of early releases. It's most
important with late pre-production-releases.

I have my doubts if this really will help Intellij to speed up

development.

Speed of development also has little to do with early releases.


What the early releases are really useful for, is that they allow the
comunity a voice in the way the new features are implemented. It's all very
well having good ideas, but the difference between a good and a great
product is in the details, and it's mostly through user feedback that
usability goes from being good to being excelent.

It's easy making changes and correcting mistakes when a feature is in it's
early stages, difficult when it's nearly done.

I think that now, a lot of the new functionality is fairly
straightforward, and there aren't a lot of questions


There's no such thing. The devil is in the details :)

By the way: is it Intellij or Jetbrains or ...


Intellij for the oldtimers. I'm always having to force myself to write
Jetbrains.

Jetbrains has always seemed to me like a comics moniker than a serious
endeavor ;)


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"Carlos Costa e Silva" <carlos@keysoft.pt> wrote in message
news:b6ijeb$b7p$1@is.intellij.net...

By the way: is it Intellij or Jetbrains or ...

>

Intellij for the oldtimers. I'm always having to force myself to write
Jetbrains.


A lot of people call the product "IntelliJ". I'm not sure why.

My mom says she uses a word processor called "Microsoft". She calls her
spreadsheet "Excel" though. Maybe it's because "Word" is so generic a
product name (though "Excel" is somewhat generic as well). I guess "IDEA" is
pretty generic too, though I think it's a great play on words.


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good to see i am not alone on this one!

What do I do with IDEA. Well I mainly do J2SE server side development with a fair amount of gui work. The Ant integration is a marvel and probably the best example of how IDEA works like no other: Ant editing funcion when editing a build.xml, weaving in of targets into Intellij Run/DEbugg setups. Yet your ant scripts still work outside of IDEA!

One thing I am still waiting for is for the Commander to become a real developers file browser! It has usefull features but I still have to use window's explorer. If somehow it could be a full-featured file explorer but that knows all there is to know about my project that would be cool.

Florian

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One thing I am still waiting for is for the Commander to become a real

developers file browser! It has usefull features but I still have to use
window's explorer. If somehow it could be a full-featured file explorer but
that knows all there is to know about my project that would be cool.

Did you try FAR or Windows Commander?

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Florian Hehlen" <florian.hehlen@ubsw.com> wrote in message
news:22667458.1049441454275.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost...

good to see i am not alone on this one!

>

What do I do with IDEA. Well I mainly do J2SE server side development with

a fair amount of gui work. The Ant integration is a marvel and probably the
best example of how IDEA works like no other: Ant editing funcion when
editing a build.xml, weaving in of targets into Intellij Run/DEbugg setups.
Yet your ant scripts still work outside of IDEA!
>

One thing I am still waiting for is for the Commander to become a real

developers file browser! It has usefull features but I still have to use
window's explorer. If somehow it could be a full-featured file explorer but
that knows all there is to know about my project that would be cool.
>

Florian

>
>


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>> Maybe one of the reasons for this was the big push by the IntelliJ folks
>> to get all the feature requests and discussion that used to be on
>> eap-features into the tracker.


But this is something where I am not completely sure if it is a good
thing. On the one hand it allows them to keep track of all the requests
without forgetting something that was mentioned between the lines in
some posting in the newsgroup. On the other hand, especially early EAP
builds, generate a lot of bug reports (see the reports for build #807
and #809 for example). For me it is difficult to decide whether to
report something or nor. Of course, I saw the new CVS integration but
didn't report bugs about that. For the simple reason that it obviously
is work in progress.


I completely agree, maybe I didn't state my point clearly enough. I
don't necessarily think that it's a good thing that new feature requests
go first in the tracker. I think that some discussion on the list
about what a new feature should do is warranted, and expected, by EAP
participants. I think that the tracker should be used to ... well...
track the request after the generaly functionality has been hashed out
be the list.

What would be nice is if the release notes for a build said something
like "work in progress, please do not report bugs" for particular bugs
or features that they've introduced. That might reduce the traffic on
these types of requests substantially.

>> I think that now, a lot of the new functionality is fairly
>> straightforward, and there aren't a lot of questions


A lot of it is straight forward for you and for me. But I think,
documentation needs to be improved. And the learning curve for beginners
is still a problem. EJB, Webservices, AspectJ, Ant, CVS, JUnit, all
these things are powerfull tools but I believe it is very difficult for
somebody not familiar with Java to get into all that stuff. The
questions is, where IDEA is positioned in this market. I don't really
appreciate the Assistant-for-everything-approach and who reads tutorials
anyway. So I think this is a difficult thing. If there weren't the free
Eclipse, I would say that IDEA is perfect for a university setting.
Refactorings, the good support for documentation and CVS are the things
I need most ;)


Yeah, documentation has always been a problem with IDEA. I agree that
this is not the type of tool like JBuilder that has wizards for
everything. At the same time, I think it's the responsiblity of EAP
members to contribute when a feature does or does not make a lot of
sense. In the past, IntelliJ guys have done a good job of listening to
such requests.

By the way: is it Intellij or Jetbrains or ...


IntelliJ. I never liked the Jetbrains moniker either. (:

Peter

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+10 on that. What I miss also is the real fast releases, but perhaps they're still in such early stages of development that we're not seeing as many, I remember getting 2-3 releases a DAY sometimes... but some were cuz they screwed up something so bad that they had to give us a new one. I'd like to see faster releases and not weekly ones. Sometimes you see the bugs fixed and you just drule waiting to see if you can get them.

R

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Agree, I miss the fast releases from the first days...

Tom

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"Valentin Kipiatkov" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:b6jphu$nn4$1@is.intellij.net...

One thing I am still waiting for is for the Commander to become a real

developers file browser! It has usefull features but I still have to use
window's explorer. If somehow it could be a full-featured file explorer

but

that knows all there is to know about my project that would be cool.

>

Did you try FAR


Text based ;)

or Windows Commander?


Not free. BTW, it is Total Commander now :)

I'd say, if you yourself recommend other file managers (and I use Wincmd
anyway, I do not use built-in commander), why you just not rip your small
commander out? That is what I wanted long ago: highly-modularized structure,
or as some say -- plugins :) If I do not want to use commander, I do not
want it to be loaded and to eat memory.

Thanks,
Michael Jouravlev


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I agree completely with this. I for one definitly miss ranting and raving against certain new features and going to great lengths to explain why I thought they were a bad idea!

The current setup, while a lot more efficient, feels a bit more sterile to me. Less of a 'we're all in this together' kind of thing. The voting/tracker mechanism also has made things more of a game of numbers, so any individual input I think is less visible/important. This in turn leads to people thinking 'why bother, I'm in a minority so my voice won't count', and so on.

I dunno, it's just a theory but I agree that things feel quieter and more formal/businesslike.

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Yeah Hani, I think part of it stems that in the old days we used to get emails and just reply to the emails, now it's just either a news group or THIS (the online for for those of us who are news-group readerless)... which makes it hard to jump in on conversations whenever we felt like it.

Is there a reason why IntelliJ/JetBrains/... could not add some kind of mailing list services to the current setup? Getting notifications just doesn't cut it unless you go to every post on the site and subscribe to it. Kind of time consuming.

Mailing lists are much more free flowing information sharing, idea sharing/bashing, kind of approach.

R

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Florian Hehlen wrote:

What do I do with IDEA. Well I mainly do J2SE server side development with a fair amount of gui work. The Ant integration is a marvel and probably the best example of how IDEA works like no other: Ant editing funcion when editing a build.xml, weaving in of targets into Intellij Run/DEbugg setups. Yet your ant scripts still work outside of IDEA!


Maybe I should have answered my own question first...

I am a computer science student. Currently I am on a mission far away
from home. Therefore I do mainly assignments with the IDE (like just
recently DES encryption). I finally want to update my website so that I
might get into JSP/Servlets in the near future. Ant is quite usefull to
create .jar files (basically that is all I use it for). My favourite
part is CVS (looking forward to CVS2). I have never used the Commander
and have been wondering why anybody wants this to part of an Java IDE. I
probably spent the most time in the Debugger, especially in the night
before the deadline.

One thing I am still waiting for is the possibility to check in a
freshly created project into CVS (because I always mess up with the
paths when doing that from the command line).

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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Carlos Costa e Silva wrote:

IMHO, bug reporting is just a side effect of early releases. It's most
important with late pre-production-releases.


I absolutely agree with that.

What the early releases are really useful for, is that they allow the
comunity a voice in the way the new features are implemented. It's all very
well having good ideas, but the difference between a good and a great
product is in the details, and it's mostly through user feedback that
usability goes from being good to being excelent.


But they already said that they will implement a GUI builder and also
told us about what we can expect from that. I do not see any sense in
releasing functionality that only disappoints the beta-testers.

It's easy making changes and correcting mistakes when a feature is in it's
early stages, difficult when it's nearly done.


I also agree with that. I wanted to stress that right now there are lots
of new bug reports in the tracker. Searching gets more and more tricky
and keeping track of what is a duplicate, what needs to investigated and
what is important for the next version must take a substantial amount of
time. I do not want to say that they should get rid of the tracker. But
maybe the should give us more guidance on which things not to submit bug
reports because of the early stage.


>>>I think that now, a lot of the new functionality is fairly
>>>straightforward, and there aren't a lot of questions


There's no such thing. The devil is in the details :)


I didn't say that things are simple. That is a quotation in my reply. I
merely said the opposite:

> but I believe it is very difficult for somebody not familiar with
> Java to get into all that stuff.

and maybe I should add that there are only a few people that really use
every aspect of the IDE.

Intellij for the oldtimers. I'm always having to force myself to write
Jetbrains.


same with me.

Jetbrains has always seemed to me like a comics moniker than a serious
endeavor ;)


Sometimes I feel really tempted to ask where that name comes from. But
then I have the feeling that I probably wouldn't get an answer ;) Maybe
they came up with it at one of the parties that they were having from
all the money that they saved on the corporate headquaters SCNR?

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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Peter Mularien wrote:

Yeah, documentation has always been a problem with IDEA. I agree that
this is not the type of tool like JBuilder that has wizards for
everything. At the same time, I think it's the responsiblity of EAP
members to contribute when a feature does or does not make a lot of
sense.


But this seems to be a problem with most of the software made only by
programmers. On the other hand, I prefer a not-really-complete help over
a works-only-on-mondays application. But I guess, the AspectJ
integration and the new GUI builder will not reduce the effort required
to understand how things work in IDEA.

> In the past, IntelliJ guys have done a good job of listening to
> such requests.

I have the feeling that this is the how I wanted Open Source software to
be except that I don't have to write the features on my own. Of course I
have to pay for that, but $99 for the student edition is more than worth
the money.

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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Robert S. Sfeir wrote:

Is there a reason why IntelliJ/JetBrains/... could not add some kind of mailing list services to the current setup? Getting notifications just doesn't cut it unless you go to every post on the site and subscribe to it. Kind of time consuming.


I read somewhere in the tracker that the new version of the Forum will
allow you to subscribe to a complete forum. That would give you the
e-mail notification that you want to have. Personally, I prefer
newsgroup. With that I don't have millions of e-mails in my e-mail
client and everything is nicely threaded. Now I only need to find a good
newsreader for my Mac and then I am back in the game.

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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Robert S. Sfeir wrote:

I'd like to see faster releases and not weekly ones. Sometimes you see the bugs fixed and you just drule waiting to see if you can get them.


A Friday-Monday cycle would be cool. The Monday release would then fix
the worst bugs of the Friday release so that we can test the rest of the
week. But hey, they come when they come. That's the way EAP is.

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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But they already said that they will implement a GUI builder and also
told us about what we can expect from that.


Talk, talk, talk... While talking, everyone has made his own image of what
the final thing will be - and many/most times some psychos are 180 degrees
off whats implemented :)
The release is to let everyone see the real thing, and to rant about how
the implemented thing is completely nonsensical and is not at all what they
wished :)

I do not see any sense in
releasing functionality that only disappoints the beta-testers.


I'm not much disappointed about the cvs release for example. It mostly
works as they posted some time later: only pserver and some more
limitations.

What I'm most angry about (and I think most everyone else) is the release
not saying abything about the cvs limitations.

After wasting a lot of time trying to make the server protocol work, I read
the post about the cvs limitations and it took me 5 minutes to checkout the
project as pserver and test the cvs implementation :(


Being pre-warned makes people less frustrated and more tolerant when things
don't work. Instead of:

#$%&!#. Another thing that doesn't work. Can't people do anything right
these days.


The response will be:

Ha. This doesn't work, just as they said. Let's wait for the next release.

Or,

I really need XXX and the release notes say it doesn't work. Lets skip this
version.


Searching gets more and more tricky


The tracker really needs a complete refactoring/new implementation of the
search facility. The present one really is very below the standards that
Intellij has made us used to.

FWIW, I always use the forum search page
http://www.intellij.net/forums/search.jsp instead of the tracker search.
It's a little better, but it still has many limitations.

Just now I searched for and got 0 entries.
Next I searched for i.java and got several entries, the first of which
contained a "findFile" text.

I didn't say that things are simple. That is a quotation in my reply.


Sorry, my mistake :(
Got carried away on my thinking thread :)



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Carlos Costa e Silva wrote:

The release is to let everyone see the real thing, and to rant about how
the implemented thing is completely nonsensical and is not at all what they
wished :)


ok.

I'm not much disappointed about the cvs release for example. It mostly
works as they posted some time later: only pserver and some more
limitations.


Same with me. I simply went back to 3.0.3

What I'm most angry about (and I think most everyone else) is the release
not saying abything about the cvs limitations.


Correct.

FWIW, I always use the forum search page
http://www.intellij.net/forums/search.jsp instead of the tracker search.
It's a little better, but it still has many limitations.


Thank you for that hint.

Sorry, my mistake :(
Got carried away on my thinking thread :)


No problem. It's Friday night. Everybody is thinking about something
else than work on a Friday night...

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 02:45:02 +0100, Carlos Costa e Silva wrote:

After wasting a lot of time trying to make the server protocol work, I
read the post about the cvs limitations and it took me 5 minutes to
checkout the project as pserver and test the cvs implementation :(


I was lucky I already used pserver, however, I'm looking forward to when
ext/ssh is supported - will make working on my sourceoforge project
easier. But no biggy....

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and have been wondering why anybody wants this to
part of an Java IDE. I
probably spent the most time in the Debugger,
especially in the night
before the deadline.


There is two reasons why i want the commander. The first is that my work environment is huge with multiple mapped network drives. Some for developmenta and some deployment. It would be nice to be able to package with a projects things like often used paths that I use for diff'ing, for checking in, for deploying, for runnig scripts, etc.

The other reason is that I find that I am most productive as a developer if I can stay within one environment to do as many tasks as possible. I avoid distractions and avoid breaking my work-flow and sometimes complexe dev/debugging screen layout.

Florian

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