JBuilder

Hi.

Just wanted to point all of you to the JBuilder feature matrix. They
actually list these:
New (for 8.0) - line numbering.
New - format tab size (only in Enterprise version...)

It made me laugh so I wanted to share it.

Amnon


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WOW! So they finally figured out how to add line numbers to the left side of the editor! INCREDIBLE! Oh, no, this can't be true. Borland staff is really amazing.

But changing tab sizes... you know, this is an advanced feature. So that's only available in the enterprise edition.

And what a bargain, an IDE with advanced features such as line numbering and tab size configuration for just USD 2.999, uh?

Now, serious... this shows how JBuilder simply can't stand serious competition if there is such. JetBrains folks need to stand up as this competition and show the world the great tool they have produced.

There are few features on JBuilder 8.0 that isn't yet matched by IDEA 3.0 -- those being mainly the UML view and the GUI editor, and we got a plugin for UML view already, and there are tons of features on IDEA 3.0 that JBuilder 8.0 can't match -- how about the extensive support for refactoring, the greatest UI ever seen and the most intelligent code assitance of all?

Good job, people. I hope you keep it this way. I'll do what I can to spread word about IDEA.

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Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

It made me laugh so I wanted to share it.


Thank you. I just got back up on my chair again. I am a student and used
JBuilder 4 for some time but then switched to Netbeans and then to IDEA.
JBuilder is no option as all the interesting features are only included in
the Enterprise version (do they now have CVS in the Personal edition?).
Additionally spending $3500 three times a year for an update every now and
then is not in my budget. I want to spend as little money as possible --
but I never felt that a single dollar for IDEA was a waste. Although I was
not using the official versions (e.g. 2.6) very much, I believe good work
needs to be rewarded.

Thanks to the team for such a wonderful product and especially for the
feeling that you really care about your customers (not only their money).
The only downside of IDEA is that you get us^W addicted to it. If you then
switch to KDevelop for C you feel angry that the keyboard shortcuts you are
used to don't have any effect.

The only thing that is missing on the Intellij-Homepage is some "who are the
people behind this project" information with fotos/names of pets/ favourite
colors/... ;)

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:39:27 +0000, Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

New (for 8.0) - line numbering.
New - format tab size (only in Enterprise version...)


Have they bundled any more open source project with it yet? I remember seeing
JB7 at a Borland seminar here and the new refactoring stuff looked cool, if
limiting, but the menu bar had "JRefactory" in it, and I'm like "escuse me -
is that just the sourceforge project you're bundling" :p




--

-- \m/ --
"...if I seem super human I have been misunderstood." (c) Dream Theater
mark@talios.com - ICQ: 1934853 JID: talios@myjabber.net

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Jbuilder has built in basic refactoring tools.
Besides that there's open source Jrefactory and commercial RefactorIT for
Jbuilder.

"Mark Derricutt" <mark@talios.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.11.19.49.26.925164@talios.com...

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:39:27 +0000, Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

>

New (for 8.0) - line numbering.
New - format tab size (only in Enterprise version...)

>

Have they bundled any more open source project with it yet? I remember

seeing

JB7 at a Borland seminar here and the new refactoring stuff looked cool,

if

limiting, but the menu bar had "JRefactory" in it, and I'm like "escuse

me -

is that just the sourceforge project you're bundling" :p

>
>
>
>

--

>

-- \m/ --
"...if I seem super human I have been misunderstood." (c) Dream Theater
mark@talios.com - ICQ: 1934853 JID: talios@myjabber.net

>


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On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:36:43 +0000, Vagif Hagverdiyev wrote:

Jbuilder has built in basic refactoring tools. Besides that there's open
source Jrefactory and commercial RefactorIT for Jbuilder.


RefactorIT is -very- nice, and has some things I miss in Ideas
refactoring. like extract method that determines a suitable return type
(and fails to extract if non-extracted code needs two or more modified
variables).

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its very rare that i post on this site, as i am usually really bogged down with work, but i thought i should intervene and say a few words.

first of all, i really love using idea, it really is a good software. But i would like for people to stop "bashing" JBuilder, as for people who do freelance development from home don't want to pay for a 3000$ licence, or a 300$ one. I use JBuilder at work, as that is the software they have chosen, and for our needs actually outperforms Idea( i have tried them both and was actually surprised when i found JBuilder to be a faster application )

JBuilder offers a "Personal" edition which, is limited is some features, remains free for everyone. I have taken advantage of all the EAP builds, and of the 2.6 version, as i was given a license to evaluate the product for work. But for someone working at home, i refuse to go out and pay for any license. Therefor i will return to using JBuilder once the EAP program is stopped.

i just had to get that off my chest.

Tim

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I do not think that the UML-View of JBuilder is really a "feature". This static graphic has an awkward appearance and was probably introduced only to compare with the features of Together Control Center, which is catching up to become a full-blown Java IDE.

Unfortunately Borland acquired TogetherSoft, I think a cooperation with IntelliJ, which would match Together's diagraming / UML capabilities with the excellent IDE features of IntelliJ would have been the better choice.

Hope that IntelliJ will not be acquired as well.

Thomas G?lden
Munich, Germany

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And I think the UML plugin is better than JBuilder's UML support anyway.

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Correct me, please, but I believe IDEA's method refacting does this. Depending on the code block selected, the method will return the appropriately typed object and assign it to the appropriate variable in the calling method. And it also detects multiple exit points.

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I use Intellij as I'm addicted to it's code awareness (in this latest release, perhaps "code omniscience"), but I definitely agree that this awareness comes at a cost. For some operations, JBuilder is marginally snappier than IDEA, and consumes less resources.

On a project with 2000-3000 source files, a couple dozen libraries, and a few ten-thousand line xml files, Idea requires much more memory than JBuilder, and pegs the cpu when editing the big xml files.

But hey, that's the cost of doing business :)

Of course, for free editors, I would go with Eclipse, Netbeans, or JEdit before using JBuilder.

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This particular feature did catch my eye however, "...HotSwap debugging..."

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Mark Derricutt wrote:


RefactorIT is -very- nice, and has some things I miss in Ideas
refactoring. like extract method that determines a suitable return type
(and fails to extract if non-extracted code needs two or more modified
variables).


Mark,
that is the way "Extract Method" in IDEA works...
Or am I missing something?

Friendly,
Dmitry

--
Dmitry Lomov
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:07:43 +0300, Dmitry Lomov wrote:

Mark,
that is the way "Extract Method" in IDEA works... Or am I missing something?


Hmmm, when I used it before it seemed to always set the return type as void,
when my license key arrives and I can use Idea again I'll have a better play
and see if i just missed something.

Mark
--

-- \m/ --
"...if I seem super human I have been misunderstood." (c) Dream Theater
mark@talios.com - ICQ: 1934853 JID: talios@myjabber.net

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I agree that the features in IDEA are awesome. and you are right, in the latest release they got better.

But in our environment, with a few hundred libraries, thousands of line of source, JBuilder is more than a little snappier, and alot easier on memory and CPU.

But for home development ( more of an acedemic thing than for profit ) i like idea. But JBuilder does offer a free license. I tried Eclipse, was not impressed, i was not able to open two projects at once ( without starting new instance of Eclipse ) or have to source path directories that were from different locations(A feature that i use alot, and is supported in both IDEA, and JBuilder quite well).

I have not tried NetBeans ( was going to be my next trial) as for JEdit, i like the code insight that the other two IDE's offer. At home i am usually trying something new, and therefor do not always know what the @#@# i am doing, so i like to know what is available.

I am not trying to put down IDEA, as it is the best editor i have used, just saying that it is not practical for someone who wants to use it at home for personal use..Maybe what i am getting at is, offer a LIMITED feature , free, version??

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Tim Voet wrote:
> But for someone working at home, i refuse to go out and pay for
> any license.
> Therefor i will return to using JBuilder once the
> EAP program is stopped.
>
> i just had to get that off my chest.


Have you ever bought a computer book with your own money, or do you only
read what's on your office bookshelf?

- If your business is computer, then buying a personal license is an
investment, like buying a book on new technology, or a java magazine. It
will help you go further in your career, by becoming better, and more
efficient at what you do.
- If your hobby is computer and java, then buying a personal license is,
.. well, .. an investment too. It will help you go further in your
hobby, by becoming better, and more efficient at what you do. You could
even turn your hobby into a career.

I like free stuff, but sometimes, you have to pay for quality.
People work also for money, because they need to eat. I do, you do,
IntelliJ guys do.

Just my opinion.

If they keep their good habits, IntelliJ people should offer a personal
license at a personal price. Be patient.

Alain Ravet


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Hi Alain,

i agree that software is an investment, just as an education and books are. I normally do go out and purchase books, if i see that they cover a particular topic i am interested in, or would like to get better at.

but what i am saying is that for learning purposes JBuilder, or Eclipse, or Netbeans, are just as good as IDEA....Granted that IDEA is a better IDE.

but for 400$ US, i can download a copy of JBuilder, and go out and get myself 8 or 9 JAVA books ( or related ).

I am glad that someone else has showed interested in seeing a personal version ( like you mentioned ).

as for quality, i have tried both JBuilder and IDEA, and must say, that yes IDEA has some great featuers that JBuiler doesn't offer, but then again JBuilder has some nice features about it as well.

i know it sounds like i am ranting, and in a way i probably am......just fed up of compagnies saying to use their software at home because it is the easiest....and having licenses go for hundreds, or even thousands of dollars. ( i.e. Microsoft Visual Studio, Office, Windows, etc )

sorry if this bothered anyone....had to say something.

Tim

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Clarification:

My original post was not a bashing of JBuilder. I will tell you, however,
that the company I worked for was ready to buy JBuilder and is now buying
IntelliJ because it is better for our needs (we are developing a large J2EE
application with many EJBs, JSPs, database connectivity, etc.).

True, it is demanding from the computer, but when memory goes for so little
as it does today, who cares? The time it saves is huge.

Again, this was not a bashing, it was just funny to see how a company
marketing is coming up with feature lists such as that. Another funny one
was the ability to run Ant targets from the IDE...

Anyway, Borland has my respect and this was a joke on their marketing more
than anything.

Amnon


"Tim Voet" <timvoet@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7481615.1037274556780.JavaMail.jrun@is.intellij.net...

its very rare that i post on this site, as i am usually really bogged down

with work, but i thought i should intervene and say a few words.
>

first of all, i really love using idea, it really is a good software. But

i would like for people to stop "bashing" JBuilder, as for people who do
freelance development from home don't want to pay for a 3000$ licence, or a
300$ one. I use JBuilder at work, as that is the software they have chosen,
and for our needs actually outperforms Idea( i have tried them both and was
actually surprised when i found JBuilder to be a faster application )
>

JBuilder offers a "Personal" edition which, is limited is some features,

remains free for everyone. I have taken advantage of all the EAP builds,
and of the 2.6 version, as i was given a license to evaluate the product for
work. But for someone working at home, i refuse to go out and pay for any
license. Therefor i will return to using JBuilder once the EAP program is
stopped.
>

i just had to get that off my chest.

>

Tim



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Tim Voet wrote:

But
i would like for people to stop "bashing" JBuilder, as for people who do


I did not bash JBuilder. Sometimes I just have the feeling that features
announced for a 8.0 release should have been in an earlier version.
Certainly they are doing a good job, otherwise they wouldn't be able to
charge 3000$.

I use JBuilder at work, as that is the software they have
chosen, and for our needs actually outperforms Idea( i have tried them

^^^^^^^^^
it is up to you, what you choose for your needs. I will do so for mine.
Having to spend more money on a Java Development than for my car is not an
option for me. And -- yes, I did look at the feature matrix and know how
much I would have to pay for the features I want.

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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Tim Voet wrote:

I am not trying to put down IDEA, as it is the best editor i have used,
just saying that it is not practical for someone who wants to use it at
home for personal use..Maybe what i am getting at is, offer a LIMITED
feature , free, version??


Maybe not limited in features but limited in what you can do with that. A
possible restriction would be developing commercial products as in the
Academic version.

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:49:21 +0000, Tim Voet wrote:

I have not tried NetBeans ( was going to be my next trial) as for JEdit, i
like the code insight that the other two IDE's offer. At home i am usually
trying something new, and therefor do not always know what the @#@# i am
doing, so i like to know what is available.


"Code insight" of a sort is provided in JEdit by both the CodeAid and
SpeedJava plugins, these are under regular updtes in the JEdit CVS as well.

--

-- \m/ --
"...if I seem super human I have been misunderstood." (c) Dream Theater
mark@talios.com - ICQ: 1934853 JID: talios@myjabber.net

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