JetBrains: what are you plans for the ui designer.


I like the ui designer: it's simple and works fine for simple projects.
I've just finished clarifying cryptic, vague and ambiguous specs by
building a UI prototype in no time alonside the client. A bliss. A
pleasure. A real pleasure.

Problem: the real stuff will need a lot of data binding, and validation.
I looked into JGoodies binding and validation framerwork. My heart
started pounding; my lungs couldn't find enough air... no more pleasure
in that direction.


I'd like JetBrains to show a little more faith in this tool, and push it
further. We couldn't we build UI based apps with pleasure. That may even
help you lock-in clients, even if that sounds politically incorrect.

Alain

15 comments

I agree with you Alain. I like the UI designer's simplicity and effectiveness
but some things, even after having used it for many proejcts, are still
unintuitive or annoying to me, or buggy.

Alain Ravet wrote:


I like the ui designer: it's simple and works fine for simple projects.
I've just finished clarifying cryptic, vague and ambiguous specs by
building a UI prototype in no time alonside the client. A bliss. A
pleasure. A real pleasure.
Problem: the real stuff will need a lot of data binding, and validation.
I looked into JGoodies binding and validation framerwork. My heart
started pounding; my lungs couldn't find enough air... no more pleasure
in that direction.


I'd like JetBrains to show a little more faith in this tool, and push it
further. We couldn't we build UI based apps with pleasure. That may even
help you lock-in clients, even if that sounds politically incorrect.

Alain

0

I hate to admit this, but I use Eclipse VEP for my GUI editing :(

I love IntelliJ, just received my upgrade last week, but the UI editor from Eclipse is really nice. Typically I design the UI in Eclipse and then pop back into IntelliJ to do my "real work" :) And yes, I endure ridicuule from my fellow developers who use Elipse as their only IDE.

I wish IntelliJ had something similar...

John

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I think because you have experience with the eclipse visual editor, you should
file requests at http://jetbrains.net/jira for how to improve it

John Childress wrote:

I hate to admit this, but I use Eclipse VEP for my GUI editing :(

I love IntelliJ, just received my upgrade last week, but the UI editor from Eclipse is really nice. Typically I design the UI in Eclipse and then pop back into IntelliJ to do my "real work" :) And yes, I endure ridicuule from my fellow developers who use Elipse as their only IDE.

I wish IntelliJ had something similar...

John

0

I think because you have experience with the eclipse visual editor, you
should file requests at http://jetbrains.net/jira for how to improve it

There are too many requests that would be required to improve.
Much simpler would be if Jetbrains would look at this:
http://jformdesigner.com/
and integrate it, buy it or make something similar.

JFormDesigner can be called really "Develop UI with pleasure!" and IMHO it is how the Jetbrains GUI
Designer should have been from the beginning.

Ahmed.

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It used SWT/Eclipse Platform. Therefore it make raodmap into IntelliJ IDEA plugin, i gues, it will never 'integrated' into. Becouse of SWT and so on.

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Alexey Efimov wrote:

It used SWT/Eclipse Platform. Therefore it make raodmap into

> IntelliJ IDEA plugin, i gues, it will never 'integrated' into.
Becouse of SWT and so on.

You are talking about Eclipse VEP, right?

JFormDesigner is a pure Swing application and there will be a IntelliJ
IDEA plugin within a few months ;)

Karl
www.jformdesigner.com

0

I look it just week ago. It look like SWT :)
Nevermind, if you show me pure Swing JFormDesigner, i'll be very pleasant to you. Maybe in beta? :)

0

Actualy i talk about JFormDesigner 1.0. But it seems, that UI is just look like SWT and not SWT realy?

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Alexey Efimov wrote:

Actualy i talk about JFormDesigner 1.0. But it seems, that UI is just look like SWT and not SWT realy?


Yes, I've imitated the Eclipse 2.x look for the JFormDesigner 1.0 main
window. In JFormDesigner 2.0 RC, I've changed the look slightly to
differentiate from Eclipse and to make it look cooler ;)

Karl

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It used SWT/Eclipse Platform. Therefore it make raodmap into IntelliJ IDEA plugin,
i gues, it will never 'integrated' into. Becouse of SWT and so on.

Of course not.
I wonder how can you say that without even testing it.
None of the versions uses SWT. If you would download it and try it, you would see
that there are no SWT specific jars nor SWT native files.

AFAIK the look and feel is JGoodies Looks, so maybe this is what it looks to you
to be SWT like :). However if you try it on Linux, you'll see that it looks nice and feels good, not
like Eclipse on other platforms than Windows :).

Besides, from my experience, JFormDesinger is very fast, much faster than the Eclipse VE,
and what Matisse will try to make, JFormDesigner already has the most (and many more).

However, the point with the IntelliJ GUI Designer is that it's NOT "developing UI with pleasure".
It's too unintuitive and in total contradiction to the rest of the IDEA way of working, that I think
a few features and JIRA requests won't won't change the real problem problem - hence the need for a
radical solution for this problem.

The simplest proof for this is that it fails the "10 minutes test", where all the other parts of
IntelliiJ IDEA (except the buggy multi-module functionality) passes even the "5 minutes test" :).

Just my 2 cents,

Ahmed.

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Awesome! I have been waiting the for the plug-in.

Matthew

0

I can only second the opinion about JFormDesigner. We use it for conceptual work (gui prototypes) as well as real stuff. The work with the tool is very effective, so it would be a very good match to IntelliJ. I hope we'll see the plug-in pretty soon.

Kind regards

Thomas Gülden
Munich, Germany

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Anyway, i used it :) I forced to thing about Eclipse cos of the look of JFormDesigner, that imitated Eclipse (sic!).

Only one that i still not agree - the separate XML file, that contains form definition. If it works with XML - we forced to use JFormDesigner anywhere when we want to modify form.

JDeveloper, for example, works with Java source code in two ways - generation and reengineering Swing into UI designer. But JDeveloper generated very ugly code, and this make manual edit of layout is impossible.

Ok, now i see bad points in currently GUI Designer:

  • Generating (instrumenting) forms into java (bytecode) by special compiler.

  • No reversing

  • Separate XML file, forced team to use IDEA, even somebody used Eclipse or other IDE.

  • And finaly, very bad point, no standard Layouts support and no realy container support (if you put on toolbar you own container, then you still can not put components into it).


And bad points in JFormDesigner:

  • Generating (instrumenting) forms into java (bytecode) by special compiler.

  • No reversing

  • Separate XML file, forced team to use IDEA, even somebody used Eclipse or other IDE.



Is it right? ;)

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Oh, that is not good marketing :))
To win with IntelliJ IDEA, you will imitate IDEA UI :))

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Is it right? ;)

:).

I'm convinced that if you'll try JFormDesinger it on some real cases, you'll "design UI with
pleasure" again :).

For me, working on UIs with JFormDesinger(switching from other alternatives), was the same feeling
like in the early days of IntelliJ when switching from JBuilder to it :).

Unfortunately that feeling is missing totally when working with the IntelliJ GUI Builder. This is
also truth for the entire team - I found none who as enthusiastic about the GUI Builder, except here
on this list (very strange - I suppose if there were no IntelliJ, these users would be very
satisfied with JBuilder or other primitive tools like that :) ).

Ahmed.

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