MPS (Meta Programming System)

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but I just read a article about MPS and I was wondering if there is more information available about this. Thanks.

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I guess, more information will be available in a few weeks. Stay tuned.

Tom

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For those interested to try quite old version of MPS:

http://www.sergeydmitriev.com/mps/mps100.zip

Franck Rasolo wrote:

For those interested, the article can be read here:

http://www.codegeneration.net/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=60



--
Best regards,
Maxim Mossienko
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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I think it's a very interesting project. Is JetBrains actually planning to make a product from it?

Francesco

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In the article Sergey says yes, but not this year.

Tom

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For a wide acceptance of a "new" programming language they can't
sell it, nobody would buy a programming language.
i understand the article so, that Sergey leaves it open cause he has
at the time of the interview no point of view.
"I'm not sure about the licenses though."


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Sergey writes:

"I will not release it until the end of next year. But I want to open it
up so that people can use it in its current state. I'm not sure about
the licenses though. And I think I will do this in a month or two."

I think, the license issue relates to opening the alpha version.

If I understand it correctly, you should not treat MPS as a new
programming language. Instead treat it as some kind of application,
which helps you to define your language, define editors for this
language, define "code"-generators. With this help you should be able to
write your application.

Sergey, if I'm wrong at this description, please correct me.

--
Best regards,
Thomas Singer
_____________
smartcvs.com

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Hello Francesco,

I think it's a very interesting project. Is JetBrains actually
planning to make a product from it?

Francesco


It's under development now ... ;) It's in our secret lab with our alchemist and necromancers ... ;) General public will get to see it, probably, in a few month ... stay tuned! ;)

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David, thanks for your reply.

When I started using IDEA for my daily job (it was with the 2.5 EAP), I immediately thought that JetBrains was headed toward an IntentionalProgramming-like paradigm, because of the fact that the internal representation of the source needed by the editor to perform its magic was light-years ahead of the competition.
Recent developements, such as the structured search and the duplicate code fragment identification, are further moves in this direction.

I think developers really need some meta-programming facilities that can be used with mainstream programming languages like Java. Personally, I come from the Common Lisp "macro" school (see Paul Graham's "On Lisp" book, freely available online).

I'm curious to see how these ideas can be introduced in the java world, so let me know if/when you can share further details.

Francesco

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Hi All

How does this differs from creating a language using tools like JavaCC, ANTLR, JavaCUP etc... (or the famous lex and yacc) except the MPS system generates Editor also for that particular language.

Ofcourse the representation in these tools is BNF or EBNF or some proprietary.

Just trying to come out of shadows :)

Thanks in advance
Anki.N

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Anki wrote:

Hi All

How does this differs from creating a language using tools like JavaCC, ANTLR, JavaCUP etc... (or the famous lex and yacc) except the MPS system generates Editor also for that particular language.


There are several differences, I'll point out a couple:
Nearly all languages today are text-based and suffer the limitations of
text, most importantly that text-based languages are difficult to extend
with new syntax/semantics. Lex/Yacc-type tools are all text based.
MPS isn't just a tool, but also a new method of programming which uses
languages in every facet of programming to make the programmer more
powerful. E.g. MPS provides special languages to help programmers define
their own languages. Lex/Yacc-type tools are tailored to support the
traditional programming method instead.
Since it's all one system, every feature can be used in every situation.
For example, you can easily support all code-editing features for your
own languages: auto-complete, find usages, browsing, refactoring, etc.
In the same way, languages can work intimately with each other instead
of being isolated islands. Lex/Yacc-type tools create languages that
cannot interoperate without special protocols or syntax.

Sergey Dmitriev will publish an article to give much more detail very
soon. The first draft is done and undergoing revisions. Expect it mid
September.

--
Rob Harwood
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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Hi Rob

Thanks for the reply. I still have many questions.
But
I'll wait for Sergey Dmitriev's article before asking any silly questions :).

Thanks

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I've been waiting with baited breath for Sergeys article on MPS. Do you have an updated ETA?

Thanks
Richie.

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Richard McMahon wrote:

I've been waiting with baited breath for Sergeys article on MPS. Do you have an updated ETA?

Thanks
Richie.


Mid October. We are aiming to publish it before OOPSLA. Unfortunately,
Sergey is extremely busy at this time. We need about 2 to 3 Sergeys, but
there is only one, so he has to work like crazy. :)
All I can say is: It's so close to ready, that if it were any closer, we
would publish it right now, but it needs important examples that only
Sergey can provide at this time.

--
Rob Harwood
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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Mid October. We are aiming to publish it before OOPSLA.

Sunday starts the OOPSLA. Any news ?

All I can say is: It's so close to ready, that if it were any closer,
we
would publish it right now

!

Ahmed.

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Ahmed Mohombe wrote:

>>Mid October. We are aiming to publish it before OOPSLA.


Sunday starts the OOPSLA. Any news ?


OOPSLA didn't work out for us this year unfortunately (for the same
reasons the article was delayed). However, I have good news. The article
has gotten out of the 'delayed' state, and is now in the final stages of
review and will be published very soon.

--
Rob Harwood
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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Is it done yet?

Is it done yet?

Is it done yet?

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Corby wrote:

Is it done yet?

Is it done yet?

Is it done yet?


Our restaurants have high standards, and good food takes time. Your
patience is appreciated.

--
Rob Harwood
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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How's it going? I'd like to try the prototype.

Cheers,
11011011

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I'd like to try the prototype.


+1

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I'd like to try the prototype.


+1


+1

Francesco

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David Beutel wrote:

How's it going? I'd like to try the prototype.

Cheers,
11011011


There have been some delays, and some problems pop up, as is typical of
a research project. The team is working steadily on it, but it's a very
small team right now. I've been told they are working on usability as
well, since they are trying to use MPS to develop itself. I can't say
when a prototype will be ready for release. Maybe Sergey Dmitriev has a
better idea. I'll try to get more info. Releasing a prototype is one of
the top priorities, but there are a lot of factors to resolve before
they can release it.

--
Rob Harwood
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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Thanks for the update! I'm happy to wait for them to get it to the point where they would use it themselves. But, I hope they get more resources, if that would help. (e.g., EAP testers)

Could Fabrique be an MPS application? (I haven't tried it.)

Cheers,
11011011

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