What happened to intellij?

Hi,

What's going on with the intellij development? For us it seems nothing is
happening. A simple example is that we expect the application to support
JSP 2.0 which was released in Nov 2003 ! Purely from a functionallity point
of view intellij is falling way behind now. We purchased a lot of licences
in the past but now a decision has been taken to evaluate eclipse simply
because the development of intellij appears to have stalled. Please tell me
I am wrong, are we likely to see an update in the next 6 months? We don't
really want to use eclipse but to be honest we now seems to be given very
little choice.

Thanks,
Steve.


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On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:22:03 +0100, Cookie Monster wrote:

What's going on with the intellij development? For us it seems nothing is
happening. A simple example is that we expect the application to support
JSP 2.0 which was released in Nov 2003 ! Purely from a functionallity


Are you not watching any of the goings on in the EAP releases?


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"Mark Derricutt" <talios@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.03.02.09.40.13.344607@gmail.com...

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:22:03 +0100, Cookie Monster wrote:

>

What's going on with the intellij development? For us it seems nothing

is

happening. A simple example is that we expect the application to

support

JSP 2.0 which was released in Nov 2003 ! Purely from a functionallity

>

Are you not watching any of the goings on in the EAP releases?

>

What goings on? It seems to us that the going ons take forever.... when
will it be finished?


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Why is Idea 5 taking so long?

"Mark Derricutt" <talios@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.03.02.09.40.13.344607@gmail.com...

>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:22:03 +0100, Cookie Monster wrote:
>>
>>> What's going on with the intellij development? For us it seems
>>> nothing
>>>

is

>>> happening. A simple example is that we expect the application to
>>>

support

>>> JSP 2.0 which was released in Nov 2003 ! Purely from a
>>> functionallity
>>>
>> Are you not watching any of the goings on in the EAP releases?
>>

What goings on? It seems to us that the going ons take forever....
when will it be finished?




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Rodrigo Gomez wrote:

Why is Idea 5 taking so long?


Given that IDEA 4 isn't that long out of the water, I wouldn't say its
"taking so long". But I gues the real answer can only be answered by JB.

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Seems to me they are putting lots of developer resources in to another
product that no-one wants and no-one needs (no need to menion which one)
while neglecting their best (or was?) best product. Best look out before IJ
becomes a second rate product like so many IDE's have become in the past.


"Rodrigo Gomez" <rodrigo@lim.com> wrote in message
news:54117632458950525156250@news.intellij.net...

Why is Idea 5 taking so long?

>

"Mark Derricutt" <talios@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.03.02.09.40.13.344607@gmail.com...

>
>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:22:03 +0100, Cookie Monster wrote:
>>
>>> What's going on with the intellij development? For us it seems
>>> nothing
>>>

is

>
>>> happening. A simple example is that we expect the application to
>>>

support

>
>>> JSP 2.0 which was released in Nov 2003 ! Purely from a
>>> functionallity
>>>
>> Are you not watching any of the goings on in the EAP releases?
>>

What goings on? It seems to us that the going ons take forever....
when will it be finished?

>

>
>
>


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Seems to me they are putting lots of developer
resources in to another
product that no-one wants and no-one needs (no need
to menion which one)
while neglecting their best (or was?) best product.
Best look out before IJ
becomes a second rate product like so many IDE's have
become in the past.


You might not want it but there are sure to be many people that do. I'm not sure which particular "product" you are referring to, but all the JB products seem to be extremely valuable tools for people.

For example, I use IDEA as my IDE since I normally work with Java, however if I had a .NET project I would have no option but to use the bloated VS.NET. However if JB make their .NET tool as good as IDEA then I would use that without question.

IDEA development has not stalled at all, I'm not sure what gives you that impression. They have hired additional staff to work on the other projects and the company is clearly ambitious which can ONLY be good news for IDEA.

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You know, I've been wondering about this myself - maybe some of you can give me some insight. I don't really want to get into the whole Eclipse vs. IDEA thing here. I use IDEA because it works better for me. That being said, I rarely see anything in the press regarding IDEA - Eclipse releases 3.0 and every industry rag out there covers it. The last thing I saw in print regarding IDEA was an article in the Programmer's Paradise catalog - which is a shame but is the state of things. So, obviously I wonder about the long term health of JetBrains. If it gets acquired, long term experience suggests the product will die - as have so many others over time. So I try to see the revenue stream that will keep the company going, assuming that's the goal. JBuilder and Eclipse are industry standard as far as I can tell - the technologies are pretty irrelevent (MacOS vs. Windows, eg). Everyone I meet knows Eclipse - not many know IDEA - again, a shame, but the way it is in my experience. So, I look at the C# thing - but for the life of me I can't understand how a VS studio plug-in was the correct choice. Given the similarities to Java and the existing IDEA product, wouldn't a VS alternative have been a better fit for the market? How many people who need or want to be able to do .NET work as well as Java would have been thrilled to pick-up a product with the quality of IDEA for C#, rather than spend 2 grand on VS - I would have thought many - assuming they knew of it's existence. How many VS users are really purchasing or even know about a C# plug-in from JB? The .NET profiler - well, makes sense - don't know how many others there are - plenty for Java, so OK - again, assuming it's a known product. The personal info manager????? That one really confuses me - is JB in the developer tools market or personal productivity market - maybe I'm way off here but it sure seems that's a step away from core competence - but then again, maybe it's a shift of focus. Yes - Java's moving fast and will probably continue to - if a Java tool doesn't keep up it does begin to get in my way - which to me (and per much of JBs own message), is the hallmark. People stop by and look at my IDEA all the time - then sit down and work with
Eclipse. The issue, it seems to me, is not which one is better. The question is, how much revenue does JB derive in the presence of Eclipse and how much can it continue to. If it has to move into .NET and other application spaces with it's resources, then that sort of implies that IDEA is already being back-burnered - not keeping up with Java and not being released in a timely enough way to keep up - which also kind of implies that it's only a matter of time before Eclipse does surpass it. I hate the thought - I love the elegant simplicity of IDEA over the bloated (IMHO) approach of Eclipse. But, 25 years later I can still say that 80+% of my time is still in edit/compile/debug/source control - and both products do this just fine. It's the 20% or less that gets looked at when distinguishing the products and I can't see how you can make a sustainable business out of that. All I can see is the potential Borland acquisition with the awesome technology rolled into JBuilder (much like my all-time favorite editor CodeWright - which I'm still mourning). Honestly, I'm not trying to slam - I love this product (though I'm also about to start a thread on memory usage because Yikes!). I just can't see longevity in the business model - superior technology has proven over and over not to be enough to sustain an organization. Anyone got insight? Anyone else concerned?

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Scott,

I'm not sure how much I should go into strategy in this kind of forum,
but I'll say a few things that may be interesting.

The company is run by the three founders, and of the three, I know
Sergey Dmitriev the best. Sergey has started (or at least motivated)
several projects: IDEA, Fabrique, Omea, MPS, and some others in
development. He is a programmer, who programs because he wants to
achieve some long term goals (which I'll let him go into if he chooses).
He's in business for the same reason. This is not a guy who's in
business to get rich (although money is necessary of course, yada yada).
He starts projects because he sees a need for them, usually a personal
need. E.g. He started IDEA because he disliked all the crap you have to
do to program in Java. He started Fabrique because it takes weeks to do
a simple webapp in J2EE. He motivated/started Omea because of all the
emails/feeds/files/crap he accumulates and has to organize, etc.

Of course, he thinks about business strategy too, but he's not obsessed
with it like a typical CEO would be in a typical company. For me, it was
hard to understand the motivation until I got used to it. It's not the
typical profit-profit-profit thing you get in US or Canada (where I'm
from), or wherever. It was a bit of a culture shock, even. But hey, it
works, and that's pretty cool. Because we're not completely obsessed
with profit, we focus on the product, which ironically allows us to do
pretty well with profit.

So, I won't get into strategy much, but maybe a bit about our niche.
Jetbrains is an innovation-driven company. We make cool and useful
things. As long as there are people who buy cool and useful things,
we'll be in business. Whether or not we'll take that to the next level
-- not enough data. I'd like to see it happen, especially with ReSharper
and MPS, but who knows? :)

--
Rob Harwood
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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Thanks for that reply - I appreciate the feedback. I knew about the 3 founders and the basic story of the company. The "not profit obsessed" culture is also not a bad thing but any means. I guess the general concern I have stems from the initial question in the thread - can IDEA continue to be released in a timely fashion - driven by changes in the technologies it supports - ie. java, jsp, j2ee, etc. I see there is, eg., a development office in Boston (my home) - if it's physical, it's not cheap - that's all I was implying. There must be a certain amount of revenue to continue. As the engineers move on to other products, the concern is that the resources won't be there to maintain IDEA, so it remains current and does not begin to "get in the way". My comments on the other products reflect my own background and opinions and obviously aren't universal.
I worked for a company caller PowerSoft (ultimately acquired by Sybase) in the early days of client-server. Our product, PowerBuilder, was a RAD IDE for 2-tier client server business applications - it was developed within a company that originally produced manufacturing software. When the tool took off, it became clear - especially to the VCs, that we had to make a choice as to what business we were going to be in - tools or apps - we simply couldn't support both. At first it appeared that we could but, ultimately, we sold off the application business - the market was ripe for the tools we were creating and the resources had to be spent there. Anyway, thanks for the input - hope my post wasn't taken as criticism - it was not intended to be - as a developer, you know how attached we can get to tools that really make a difference in our lives - for me, anyway, IDEA is in that category - hope it stays that way. Oh, yeah, and I'll be very grateful if you really do deliver an IDEA for C#/.NET - that is, standalone - VS alternative - that will go a long way toward my being able to retire my MSDN Universal.
Thanks,
Scott

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