[EVALUATION] - E07 - JetBrains, CEO, Team

I've detected the major problems of the IntelliJ IDEA.

The company seems to be a small one, CEO centered - and I doubt that
they can keep up with development, especially as they do not use in any
way open-source contribution mechanics (e.g. for lower-grade subsystems).

The reaction on a job application (cooperation as an independent) which
i've placed over 2 weeks ago (I'm aware about holidays) remained
unprocessed - which is a very ungentle behaviour.

[job application and some examples mailed to job@jetbrains, CEO, and
Rob.Harwood, thus my suggestions get "employee-level visibility"]

The CEO of jetBraims seems to be a core-developer. This cannot work, as
the CEO needs to have a clear brain (without any coding activity traps)
to plan, overview and direct the company.

At this point, the CEO should have already reacted to my messages and to
the content of this thread, possibly with a suggestion like "free my
mind thus I can focus on development".

-

The response within JetBrains on feedback is minimal or zero, which
indicates a low evolution speed.

-
-
-

I'm not sure if I'll start development with IDEA or if I move on to the
last remaining IDE:

the borland one (don't even know the name).

I'm preconceived, due to worse experiences with C++ Builder. OOAD was
not engouraged by this tool.

-

Will see.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

66 comments
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Hello Ilias,

Please, stop spam here... And please go back to your Abstract Solutions that
you are spent your last 20 years. Do not force as to ask NNTP admins block
you as it was for Eclipse news server.

Thank you
--
Alexey Efimov, Java Developer
Tops BI
http://www.topsbi.ru

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Alexey Efimov wrote:

Hello Ilias,
Please, stop spam here... And pl



Where is Hani when you need him?

A.

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Hi Ilias,
Can you evaluate MS Visual Studio .NET for us, check your rules on it and discuss MS team, CEO, support and team quality and community too.
You can make it right in this forum, comparision very interestin for us.

Thanks,
Dmitry

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Hello Alain,

AR> Where is Hani when you need him?

I'm afraid it is 'heavy artillery' :))

Thanks!
--
Alexey Efimov, Java Developer
Tops BI
http://www.topsbi.ru

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Dmitry Kashin wrote:

Hi Ilias, Can you evaluate MS Visual Studio .NET for us, check your
rules on it and discuss MS team, CEO, support and team quality and
community too.


I'm not sure if they fulfill the basic requirements (implementation):

http://lazaridis.com/case/stack/index.html#requirements

You can make it right in this forum, comparision very
interestin for us.


[I estimate this would take me one month. I cannot do this at this
moment, at least not without a sponsor.]

I currently have to decide:

  • evaluation of Borland JDeveloper

  • starting with IntelliJ IDEA, although

  • JetBrains low "gentleness"

  • JetBrains low "evolution speed".


If I fail with both, jetBrains and Borland, then I will most possibly
move to .NET.

I've read something about an open source implementation from Novell.

-

but for now, I'm still here.

Thanks, Dmitry


.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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IDEA doesn't fit following requirements.
It not "Based on Open Source (OSI compliant licensing)" and "Language neutral".
And other stack requirements too.

Go forward and skip IDEA cause it won't pass your test anyway, don't waste your time.

Thanks,
Dmitry

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Dmitry Kashin wrote:

IDEA doesn't fit following requirements.
It not "Based on Open Source (OSI compliant licensing)" and "Language neutral".
And other stack requirements too.


Those requirements are for the runtime (e.g. J2EE execution environment,
like Tomcat + mySQL + ORM + ...).

"Language neutral" subjects mostly the open standards (e.g. ODMG OODBMS
access instead of language specific JDO).

Go forward and skip IDEA cause it won't pass your test anyway, don't waste your time.


No, IDEA can be closed source.

Everything that IDEA produces (and the needed runtime-library) should
fulfill the requirements (see thread E03, where I
await an official answer).

Thanks,
Dmitry


.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Nice try Dmitry

Dmitry Kashin wrote:

IDEA doesn't fit following requirements.
It not "Based on Open Source (OSI compliant licensing)" and "Language neutral".
And other stack requirements too.

Go forward and skip IDEA cause it won't pass your test anyway, don't waste your time.

Thanks,
Dmitry


--
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary.
Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of
punishment and hope of reward after death."
[Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science", New York Times Magazine, 9
November 1930]

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Did Ilias do an evaluation of Eclipse?

Alexey Efimov wrote:

Hello Ilias,

Please, stop spam here... And please go back to your Abstract Solutions
that you are spent your last 20 years. Do not force as to ask NNTP
admins block you as it was for Eclipse news server.

Thank you
--
Alexey Efimov, Java Developer
Tops BI
http://www.topsbi.ru

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Amnon I. Govrin wrote:
> Did Ilias do an evaluation of Eclipse?

yes, you find pointers to the eclipse and netbeans evaluations within
the E02 thread:

- E02 - Open Source Technology Stack
http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jsp?forum=27&thread=121535&message=3435613&q=453032#3435613

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Are you surprised that replying to you is not JBs highest concern?

You have already made it clear that you consider courtesy to be inefficient, and thus by reflection, any lack of courtesy on their part should be viewed as JB seeking maximal efficiency themselves.

Courtesy and social lubricants exist to maximize the chance of successful communication, like punctuation, and ignoring that is going to drive away a certain fraction of the readers. For example, following the Eclipse link, it is pretty clear that you felt they should adjust their issue tracker to match your usage patterns, rather than you adjusting your usage patterns to match the tracker. It is certainly your right to not participate under those conditions, but it hardly seems to be censorship when they defend their tracker from what they see as misuse. I suspect the same here - you have not given them an intangible reason to address your concerns, and I am not convinced of the tangible benefits.

Scott

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The CEO of jetBraims seems to be a core-developer.
This cannot work, as the CEO needs to have a clear
brain (without any coding activity traps) to plan,
overview and direct the company.


Tell that to Bill Gates.

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Scott Ellsworth wrote:

Are you surprised that replying to you is not JBs highest concern?


yes and no.

You have already made it clear that you consider courtesy to be
inefficient, and thus by reflection, any lack of courtesy on their
part should be viewed as JB seeking maximal efficiency themselves.


please decouple [personal evaluation context, job application response
of a company]

Courtesy and social lubricants exist to maximize the chance of
successful communication, like punctuation, and ignoring that is
going to drive away a certain fraction of the readers. For example,
following the Eclipse link, it is pretty clear that you felt they
should adjust their issue tracker to match your usage patterns,
rather than you adjusting your usage patterns to match the tracker.


You summary is false.

I've entered Issues for some non-implemented JSR's (affecting J2SE 5.0
Support).

No one has the
right to obfuscate those issues to reflect non-reality.

- Critical Issues Need Independent Supervision
http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.foundation/msg00251.html

It is certainly your right to not participate under those conditions,
but it hardly seems to be censorship when they defend their tracker
from what they see as misuse.


tracker & discussion forums as two seperate things.

"
But: as an professional, you should have the ability to decouple.

Even if you decide to reverse my access from Bugzilla
- this has nothing to do with this forum here [btw: i do not write
within the team forums (mailinglists)].
"

- Mike Milinkovich (Eclipse Foundation Director)
Censors Forums
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.softwaretools/msg/ff9ba79be816921d

I suspect the same here - you have not
given them an intangible reason to address your concerns, and I am
not convinced of the tangible benefits.


I've given them enouth reasons, the benefits are clearly visible.

Possibilities they do not react:

  • They are not able/willing to see.

  • They are totally captured by activity traps.

  • They take everything they need silently.

  • They have no courage (to go against mainstream)


Anyway, I continue preliminary) most possibly with IDEA.

Scott


.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

I've detected the major problems of the IntelliJ IDEA.

The company seems to be a small one, CEO centered - and I doubt that
they can keep up with development, especially as they do not use in any
way open-source contribution mechanics (e.g. for lower-grade subsystems).

The response within JetBrains on feedback is minimal or zero, which
indicates a low evolution speed.


OT: Technology (Was: How many IDEA registered users ?)
http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jsp?forum=27&thread=122430&tstart=0&trange=15#3439128

-

Believe me: you need some deep viewing 2nd opinions.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

>> I've detected the major problems of the IntelliJ IDEA.
>>
>> The company seems to be a small one, CEO centered - and I doubt that
>> they can keep up with development, especially as they do not use in
>> any way open-source contribution mechanics (e.g. for lower-grade
>> subsystems).



>> The response within JetBrains on feedback is minimal or zero, which
>> indicates a low evolution speed.



OT: Technology (Was: How many IDEA registered users ?)
http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jsp?forum=27&thread=122430&tstart=0&trange=15#3439128


-

Believe me: you need some deep viewing 2nd opinions.

.


Ilias, I have a suggestion, and I'm serious about it.

There are 2 sides for everything.

The 2 sides of your interaction with this and other forums in my opinion
can be summerized in 2 sentences:

1. If 5 people say you're drunk, you probably are.
2. "If you don't have a consensus that it's nonsense, you don't have a
breakthrough." (Said by the inventor of SpaceShipOne, Burt Rutan, cited
in Time Magazine of December 6, 2004, page 43 at the end).

What I'm saying is that since you are so sure that you know how to
research, develop, market and manage better than anyone else, go ahead
and prove everyone wrong by creating something of your own that will be
better, faster, leaner and greater.

Your other option is to accept that you're drunk.

Amnon

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He is not drunk. Unless you can get drunk from hitting the pipe.

Norris Shelton
Sun Certified Java Programmer




Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

>
>> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>>
>>> I've detected the major problems of the IntelliJ IDEA.
>>>
>>> The company seems to be a small one, CEO centered - and I doubt that
>>> they can keep up with development, especially as they do not use in
>>> any way open-source contribution mechanics (e.g. for lower-grade
>>> subsystems).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> The response within JetBrains on feedback is minimal or zero, which
>>> indicates a low evolution speed.
>>
>>
>> OT: Technology (Was: How many IDEA registered users ?)
>> http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jsp?forum=27&thread=122430&tstart=0&trange=15#3439128
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> Believe me: you need some deep viewing 2nd opinions.
>>
>> .
>>
>

Ilias, I have a suggestion, and I'm serious about it.

>

There are 2 sides for everything.

>

The 2 sides of your interaction with this and other forums in my
opinion can be summerized in 2 sentences:

>

1. If 5 people say you're drunk, you probably are.
2. "If you don't have a consensus that it's nonsense, you don't have a
breakthrough." (Said by the inventor of SpaceShipOne, Burt Rutan,
cited in Time Magazine of December 6, 2004, page 43 at the end).

>

What I'm saying is that since you are so sure that you know how to
research, develop, market and manage better than anyone else, go ahead
and prove everyone wrong by creating something of your own that will
be better, faster, leaner and greater.

>

Your other option is to accept that you're drunk.

>

Amnon

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Norris Shelton wrote:

He is not drunk. Unless you can get drunk from hitting the pipe.

Norris Shelton
Sun Certified Java Programmer


Merely a metaphore :)

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Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:


>> OT: Technology (Was: How many IDEA registered users ?)
>> http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jsp?forum=27&thread=122430&tstart=0&trange=15#3439128

>> Believe me: you need some deep viewing 2nd opinions.

Ilias, I have a suggestion, and I'm serious about it.


ok

There are 2 sides for everything.

What I'm saying is that since you are so sure that you know how to
research, develop, market and manage better than anyone else,


This information is false.


go ahead
and prove everyone wrong by creating something of your own that will be
better, faster, leaner and greater.


This would take me to much time.

First I try to make existent systems (eclipse, NetBeans, JetBrains) etc.
more effective.

Your other option is to accept that you're drunk.


There is another option, too:

Wait and get the confirmation:

How the complex systems like e.g. eclipse/netBeans will fail, due to
stubborness and inefficiency.

How JetBrains will fail with its LOP efforts, as they oversee small but
critical details.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

How JetBrains will fail with its LOP efforts, as they oversee small but
critical details.


So you are waiting for others to work like you suggest and make
JetBrains and Eclipse fail, while you do nothing but complaining?

Sounds like a plan that would yield great things.

I feel kind of sad for you, as I gave you the benefit of the doubt that
you might be right and everyone else (including people who swept whole
industries with their inventions, not by waiting and whining that
JBuilder didn't do this or that) and here you go and prove me wrong by
setting your amazing W&W "plan" (Wait and Whine).

You want to change something? Change it. Create something. Until you do,
you will not have the credibility to assume better.

As the saying goes, "Build it and they will come". I will add - don't
build it and end up a bitter, loser, unaccomplished bum.

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Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

>> How JetBrains will fail with its LOP efforts, as they oversee small
>> but critical details.

As the saying goes, "Build it and they will come". I will add - don't
build it and end up a bitter, loser, unaccomplished bum.


I've already build it.

But companies were not willing/capable to see.

Including JetBrains.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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If you have built it, you don't need them.

Norris Shelton
Sun Certified Java Programmer




Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

>
>> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>>
>>> How JetBrains will fail with its LOP efforts, as they oversee small
>>> but critical details.
>>

>
>> As the saying goes, "Build it and they will come". I will add - don't
>> build it and end up a bitter, loser, unaccomplished bum.
>
>

I've already build it.

>

But companies were not willing/capable to see.

>

Including JetBrains.

>

.

>

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Norris Shelton wrote:

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

>> Amnon I. Govrin wrote:
>>> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>>>
>>>> How JetBrains will fail with its LOP efforts, as they oversee small
>>>> but critical details.
>>>
>>> As the saying goes, "Build it and they will come". I will add - don't
>>> build it and end up a bitter, loser, unaccomplished bum.
>>
>> I've already build it.
>>
>> But companies were not willing/capable to see.
>>
>> Including JetBrains.
>
> If you have built it, you don't need them.

I've built theoretical constructs.

First I try to apply them on existing systems.

If I fail, the I have to build new real systems.

I like to avoid this, to save time.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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By building I meant building, not contemplating.

Use your theories on a small product, system, company to prove your
concepts.

Then people will take you seriously.

I got my current job because I built real technology in my last job, not
because I came and said why all of the people around me were wrong.

Good luck,
Amnon

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

Norris Shelton wrote:

>> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>>
>>> Amnon I. Govrin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How JetBrains will fail with its LOP efforts, as they oversee small
>>>>> but critical details.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As the saying goes, "Build it and they will come". I will add -
>>>> don't build it and end up a bitter, loser, unaccomplished bum.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've already build it.
>>>
>>> But companies were not willing/capable to see.
>>>
>>> Including JetBrains.


>
> If you have built it, you don't need them.

I've built theoretical constructs.

First I try to apply them on existing systems.

If I fail, the I have to build new real systems.

I like to avoid this, to save time.

.

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It sound like he wants to be a professional bullshitter.

Norris Shelton
Sun Certified Java Programmer




Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

By building I meant building, not contemplating.

>

Use your theories on a small product, system, company to prove your
concepts.

>

Then people will take you seriously.

>

I got my current job because I built real technology in my last job,
not because I came and said why all of the people around me were wrong.

>

Good luck,
Amnon

>

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

>
>> Norris Shelton wrote:
>>
>>> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amnon I. Govrin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How JetBrains will fail with its LOP efforts, as they oversee
>>>>>> small but critical details.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As the saying goes, "Build it and they will come". I will add -
>>>>> don't build it and end up a bitter, loser, unaccomplished bum.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've already build it.
>>>>
>>>> But companies were not willing/capable to see.
>>>>
>>>> Including JetBrains.
>>>
>>
>> >
>> > If you have built it, you don't need them.
>>
>> I've built theoretical constructs.
>>
>> First I try to apply them on existing systems.
>>
>> If I fail, the I have to build new real systems.
>>
>> I like to avoid this, to save time.
>>
>> .
>>

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I've built theoretical constructs.

Then you've actually done nothing. Which is why no-one is going to listen to you when you tell them that they're doing it all wrong.




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Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

By building I meant building, not contemplating.


I've understood this.

Use your theories on a small product, system, company to prove your
concepts.


I do this already.

Then people will take you seriously.


This is not a priority of mine.

I got my current job because I built real technology in my last job, not
because I came and said why all of the people around me were wrong.


ok


>> I've built theoretical constructs.
>>
>> First I try to apply them on existing systems.
>>
>> If I fail, the I have to build new real systems.
>>
>> I like to avoid this, to save time.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Norris Shelton wrote:

It sound like he wants to be a professional bullshitter.

Norris Shelton
Sun Certified Java Programmer


Has Sun a certification programm for "professional bullshitters"?

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Rayz wrote:

I've built theoretical constructs.

Then you've actually done nothing. Which is why no-one is going to
listen to you when you tell them that they're doing it all wrong.


Your presented facts and assumtions were wrong.

If you like to discuss this further, please use the E05 thread.

http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jsp?forum=27&thread=121764&tstart=15&trange=15

Thank you.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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To all good things there comes an end.

End-of-topic. (please)

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Maas van den Berg wrote:

To all good things there comes an end.

End-of-topic. (please)


please filter this thread (or any other you dislike).

-

If you like to discuss this further, please use the E05 thread.

http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jsp?forum=27&thread=121764&tstart=15&trange=15

Thank you.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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