[EVALUATION] - E08 - Creating a Simple Class Hierarchy (Business Objects)

distracted from the huge size of Borlannd JBuilder (I have an very old
machine) I decided to stay initially with IntelliJ, altough I don' think
that the leadership of this company can guide the product into a bright
future.

If everything went's fine, I will shortly post a Summary about real-live
development with JetBrains IntelliJ IDEA.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Don't bother, we know it works. :)

Andrei

distracted from the huge size of Borlannd JBuilder (I have an very old
machine) I decided to stay initially with IntelliJ, altough I don'
think that the leadership of this company can guide the product into a
bright future.

If everything went's fine, I will shortly post a Summary about
real-live development with JetBrains IntelliJ IDEA.

..



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Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

distracted from the huge size of Borlannd JBuilder (I have an very
old machine) I decided to stay initially with IntelliJ, altough I
don' think that the leadership of this company can guide the product
into a bright future.

If everything went's fine, I will shortly post a Summary about
real-live development with JetBrains IntelliJ IDEA.


1705 created log-file

-


@ new project:

#annoying: new Project, Select module type, "Description" box

  • could be bigger to avoid v-scroll-bar.

  • font size too large

#confusing: the compact project descriptions do not help me

-


@ selecting Java Module.

#confusing: several talk about source directory.

  • would expect a simpler treatment

  • show standard path

  • option to change it


i finally keep the default "src" (and not the suggested example "java/src")

  • don't know which is standard


added app/log.txt (this file)

adding a library.

-


@ IDEA.ProjectNavigator.Libraries.PopupMenu
#confusing: Menu entry "New"
#missing : cannot add a library from menu

=> Popup menu is not context-sensitive

-


@ IDEA.ProjectNavigator.myProjectModule.PopupMenu.Module_Settings

I can add a library.

=> inconvenient and non-intuitive way of adding a library.

!Open an existing project within the same window:

fails (project groups seem not possible, instead multiple IDEA windos)

-


@ New Class
class creation and automated get/set creation ok.

#missing:
within editor, option to collapse all classes Getter/Setter methods
into one group (+ Get/Set methods)

#missing:
option to visually distinguish Class Constructor Method

-



@ New Class (a class with some methods)

#missing:
class wizard, which allows a quick visual definition of the class.

-



@ drag & drop

#missing:
cannot drop a .java file from windows-explorer onto IDEA.

#missing:
cannot alter the location of a textfile in my project via drag&drop
(Need to choose "Refactor.Move", a dialoge opens. Very inconvenient)

-



@ Class main method creation

typing "main" - no reaction

typing Alt+F1 - main method is not suggested

trying popup menues, no entries

=> giving up, entering main method manually

-



@ compilation

#surprised:
Tips where shown during compilation - very nice

#annoyed:
Tips panel does not resize whe window is resized

-



SUMMARY:

until now: IntelliJ IDEA seems nothing special (as implied by "IntelliJ").

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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When we can expect post from you
"Test failed I'm going away?"

TIA,
Dmitry

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What Alt+F1 going to do?
If you don't know what it mean why you are using it? It may be destructive action.

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#annoying: ...
#confusing: ...
#missing : ...
#surprised: ...


I remember myself picking on every little detail just like
that about two years ago. I gave up after Project Properties
window ;) I understand him, interesting how long will it
take for him to give up?


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Do you have any tool that builds this log file? If not, I would imagine
much faster progress if you didn't have to log everything you did.

It almost looks like a kids diary -
Dear diary.
Today I woke up and went to pee.
When I washed my hands I noticed I had a wart on my face. It totally
surprised me.
Then I went to eat Breakfast. The microwave number buttons are too
small. I always press on 9 instead of 8 and make my morning coffee boil.
I was hurt by the hot glass and hot coffee that spilled on my bare foot.

Seriously, all the things you wrote are minute at best.

When you know around 50 keyboard shortcuts of IntelliJ and can create
complete classes in 3 seconds or change a whole project in 5 seconds
instead of hard labor then you'll understand why it is called IntelliJ
and why Eclipse is improving itself in very similar ways.

If you have suggestions, you can suggest them. But don't provide this
meaningless long "log" as if it's the next Hamlet.

Take the 5 most things you found annoying and try to focus on improving
them - send a request, discuss them here only as if for a moment the
other newsgroup members are equals to you, or even write a plug-in like
some people here to which I can only bow.

Amnon

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most = worst. If only my computer could read my mind...

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Amnon

Dear diary.
Today I woke up and went to pee.
When I washed my hands I noticed I had a wart on my face. It totally
surprised me.



You mean like this one :
http://www.wibsite.com/wiblog/dull/

At least, this blog is funny.

It almost looks like a kids diary -
Dear diary.
Today I woke up and went to pee.




Many many years laters, it would read:

"Dear diary,
This morning I woke up, I peed, I pooed, and then I left my bed"

:)

Alain

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Man, how about this:

@ Ilias:

#missing
Proper English skills

#missing
Courtesy

#missing
Respect from his own community

#annoying
That he fails to recognize all of this.

SUMMARY:

He is, contrary to his own billing, absolutely nothing special.

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Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

If you have suggestions, you can suggest them.



I have done this.

I'll stop with further evaluation reports now, as IntelliJ IDEA has
ovbiously the same amount of detail-level flaws like other IDE's.

So I can start the real project uninterupted evaluation now.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Ilias has some points here. However, Illias, you'll need to breakdown your feedback into very specific issues, both feature requests and bug fix requests, with clear explanations and done in a way that can be readily reproduced. Each issue needs a separate and independent entry in IntelliJ's issue tracking system. This way your feedback has a chance to help direct improvements in the product...it's the only way for your suggestions to have an impact on IDEA.

Some of the stuff you don't yet have sufficient experience in IDEA to realize is available such as typing 'psvm' and pressing tab to get a main method skeleton. IDEA has a vast set of features that are only going to be experienced and thus appreciated by a developer "with a coding activity-trap" to borrow your phrase from another thread. If in your other post you mean "without a coding activity-trap" in the sense of having the time to really focus on the evaluating the product, I can understand your point. However, using IDEA is fundamentally a coding activity (it involves design too), so that is the audience and we continuously evaluate the product and discover new features and continue to find helpful subtleties even long after (> 1 year) of using IDEA full-time. I don't believe you'll be able to an evaluation of IDEA any justice without using the product full-time over a substantial period of time on a task of non-trivial complexity. Having said that, you might be able to give some first time user impressions of how the product could be improved for that first time audience...a place I believe IDEA could stand real improvement.

Cheers,
Jon

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Jon Steelman wrote:

Ilias has some points here. However, Illias, you'll need to breakdown
your feedback into very specific issues, both feature requests and
bug fix requests, with clear explanations and done in a way that can
be readily reproduced. Each issue needs a separate and independent
entry in IntelliJ's issue tracking system.


I am aware about Issue Tracking Systems.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.softwaretools/msg/ff9ba79be816921d

This way your feedback has
a chance to help direct improvements in the product...it's the only
way for your suggestions to have an impact on IDEA.


I have spent the time to write the suggestions down.

The IDEA support / QA can spent the time to extract what they need.


Some of the stuff you don't yet have sufficient experience in IDEA to
realize is available such as typing 'psvm' and pressing tab to get a
main method skeleton.


This is not intuitive.

IDEA has a vast set of features that are only
going to be experienced and thus appreciated by a developer "with a
coding activity-trap" to borrow your phrase from another thread.


ok

If
in your other post you mean "without a coding activity-trap" in the
sense of having the time to really focus on the evaluating the
product, I can understand your point.


Writing down those eval-logs takes very much time and alters the
development process.

It's much easier if you know you are payed - or at least that the
system/community/company has the ability to detect the value of such
writings.

Newcomer feedback one of the most important feedback, which is often
surpressed by a intolerant and ignoring community.

However, using IDEA is
fundamentally a coding activity (it involves design too), so that is
the audience and we continuously evaluate the product and discover
new features and continue to find helpful subtleties even long after
(> 1 year) of using IDEA full-time. I don't believe you'll be able to
an evaluation of IDEA any justice without using the product full-time
over a substantial period of time on a task of non-trivial
complexity.


I'm evaluating IDEA for long term projects.

The surrounding system (community, company, evolution speed) is more
important that the product itself

Having said that, you might be able to give some first
time user impressions of how the product could be improved for that
first time audience...a place I believe IDEA could stand real
improvement.


First Contact Product Analysis.

I've provided a log of the detected barriers:

context: "java newcomer / IntelliJ IDEA newcomer"

But I cannot write more.

Must close the threads.

Cheers, Jon


Thank you for you friendly message.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Ilias, if you're as good as you claim to be, why don't you just go find a job somewhere?

Exactly what would it take for you to go away and stop posting your gibberish, out of curiousity? I mean, it's rather obvious to pretty much everyone that nobody here would ever hire you or listen to you, and that every single person who has read anything you have to say thinks you're very, very incompetent/stupid/tedious/repetitive/socially dysfunctional/unemployable, yet you persist in spouting your own brand of lunacy.

So I'm asking you, as politely as I can, is there any set of circumstances/words/responses that you can get that would make you think that 'ok, maybe they don't care about all the great things I have to offer, so I will go somewhere else now'?

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>> Some of the stuff you don't yet have sufficient experience in IDEA to
>> realize is available such as typing 'psvm' and pressing tab to get a
>> main method skeleton.


This is not intuitive.


It is. 'psvm' stands for 'Public Static Void Main'.

Tom

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Thomas Singer (MoTJ) wrote:
>>> Some of the stuff you don't yet have sufficient experience in IDEA to
>>> realize is available such as typing 'psvm' and pressing tab to get a
>>> main method skeleton.
>>
>> This is not intuitive.


It is. 'psvm' stands for 'Public Static Void Main'.


'Main' is the only knowledge available to a newcomer.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Hani Suleiman wrote:
- (irrelevant off-topic babbling)

-

I have expected that your next message adressed to me would be an
unconditional apology for your last message:

http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jsp?forum=27&thread=122131&message=3437927&q=4556414c554154494f4e#3439773

-

Can I at least expect that your next one (after this off-topic) is at
least within the right thread?

- E05 - Community / Community Feedback
http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jsp?forum=27&thread=121764&message=3436291

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Well, if you are a novice with Java, I agree with you. But since you are a
professional Java developer, you know, that 'main' needs to be 'public
static void' to be executable.

Tom

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Thomas Singer (MoTJ) wrote:

Well, if you are a novice with Java, I agree with you.


I am a novice.

But since you
are a professional Java developer, you know, that 'main' needs to be
'public static void' to be executable.

Tom


.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Hi Ilias,
I'm affraid not, all your posts in form of your personal blog will be commented this way. Ask concrete questions or fill requests in tracker.

Do you really need help of community or you think that it need your help? Can you answer this question?
Cause if you keep communicate such way count of people that not accept you will keep growing. Why you don't understand this? Personally I'm waste minutes of my time to save hours of your.
Can you decide to stay with IDEA or leave it faster?

TIA,
Dmitry

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I am a novice.


And you wanted to be hired at Jetbrains? I'm confused.

Tom

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Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

If everything went's fine, I will shortly post a Summary about real-live
development with JetBrains IntelliJ IDEA.


As posted within a message in this thread:

"
I have done this.

I'll stop with further evaluation reports now, as IntelliJ IDEA has
ovbiously the same amount of detail-level flaws like other IDE's.

So I can start the real project uninterupted evaluation now.
"

Thank you for your patience and feedback so far.

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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Thomas Singer (MoTJ) wrote:
>> I am a novice.


And you wanted to be hired at Jetbrains? I'm confused.


Of course.

see section "Independent":

http://lazaridis.com/efficiency/definitions.html

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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While there is something to the whole "Zen mind, Beginner mind" motif you've got going here, the idea is to be skilled and experienced in your field while keeping fresh eyes. When people ask how long I've been programming, I tend to answer "Just starting. Every day, just starting". I've only got the balls to do that because I've actually got thirty years experience, tens of shipped products, and a frankly obscene job description. Saying that proudly because you actually don't know shit is very impressive, if not in a particularly good way.

--Dave Griffith

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Dave Griffith wrote:

While there is something to the whole "Zen mind, Beginner mind" motif
you've got going here, the idea is to be skilled and experienced in
your field while keeping fresh eyes.


ok

When people ask how long I've
been programming, I tend to answer "Just starting. Every day, just
starting". I've only got the balls to do that because I've actually
got thirty years experience, tens of shipped products, and a frankly
obscene job description.


ok

Saying that proudly because you actually
don't know shit is very impressive, if not in a particularly
good way.


I'm sorry, I cannot extract the meaning of this sentence.

Can you please express it simpler?

.

--
http://lazaridis.com

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