IntelliJ Web designer?

Was just curious. I've been playing around with Sun's Studio Creator and evaluating its potential for use with my organization. Is there a web designer or similar as a plugin or similar for IDEA? I'm active in the Fabrique beta and while Fabrique is interesting it is a long way off and contains tons of features that wouldn't be used so I was looking for something closer to the relative ease that Creator provides.

While I don't want to detract from IDEA, if there are also other products that I should be taking a look at that provide similar functionality to creator - lemme know.

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As far as I can tell Fabrique is JBs closest competitor to Sun Java Studio Creator. IDEA is more like Sun Java Studio Standard IDE (except IMO a lot better). I'm not sure how Fabrique will compete with Sun Java Studio Creator longterm but it looks pretty good so far.

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Yeah, I've been playing around with it in the beta and it looks like something that will definitely shape up to be a wonderful product. The problem with it is that its a very complex product and introduces a lot of new concepts into the development process. While it certainly gets 'a' job done, it seems to violate the KISS principle - though that's likely just because I'm nutty enough to use it this early out :)

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Fabrique is looking really good but to be honest the main problem it will have when competing with Sun Java Studio Creator is the fact that Fabrique uses a proprietary API to provide much of it's functionality. Studio Creator is completely based on J2EE standards and as such will appeal to a much larger community of cross-platform developers.

Now whilst I do realize that the proprietary code is no different from adding something like Struts API in your projects as it's just another API you can use with or without Fabrique itself, however I do think that this will sway some people toward Studio Creator which concentrates on providing similar functionality without the proprietary code which could scare some people off.

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This is my sentiments exactly. This does not mean that JSF is superior,
but it is the standard.

Rob Bradley wrote:

>Fabrique is looking really good but to be honest the main problem it will have when competing with Sun Java Studio Creator is the fact that Fabrique uses a proprietary API to provide much of it's functionality. Studio Creator is completely based on J2EE standards and as such will appeal to a much larger community of cross-platform developers.
>
>Now whilst I do realize that the proprietary code is no different from adding something like Struts API in your projects as it's just another API you can use with or without Fabrique itself, however I do think that this will sway some people toward Studio Creator which concentrates on providing similar functionality without the proprietary code which could scare some people off.

>

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Norris Shelton wrote:

This is my sentiments exactly. This does not mean that JSF is superior,
but it is the standard.


Why not using JBuilder then? At least 3 years ago that was a standard de facto.

--
Maxim Shafirov
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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I was already hooked on IntelliJ by then. :)

JBuilder was and is still a very common development platform. However,
the choice of that editor does not restrict which libraries are used.
The use of Fabrique will require the use of the non-standard APIs. That
will necessitate a learning curve for new employees, that may not exist
if the standard APIs were used.

Wether we like it or not, JSF is the standard and is gaining momentum.
I do not understand why support for the standard would be neglected.

Think of ATG. They had a great web server with features that JSP 2.0 is
just now making available. Those features were common on ATG servers 5
years ago. Their downfall was that they had their own API. However,
JSP flourished and DSP has basically had all of it's cool features
sucked in to JSP. Where does that leave DSP? Nowhere. :(

Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) wrote:

Norris Shelton wrote:

>
>> This is my sentiments exactly. This does not mean that JSF is
>> superior, but it is the standard.
>
>

Why not using JBuilder then? At least 3 years ago that was a standard
de facto.

>

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If fabrique uses a custom library to do webdev then its a non-starter
for me. Bad idea to try and come up with a custom API.


Norris Shelton wrote:

I was already hooked on IntelliJ by then. :)

JBuilder was and is still a very common development platform. However,
the choice of that editor does not restrict which libraries are used.
The use of Fabrique will require the use of the non-standard APIs. That
will necessitate a learning curve for new employees, that may not exist
if the standard APIs were used.

Wether we like it or not, JSF is the standard and is gaining momentum.
I do not understand why support for the standard would be neglected.

Think of ATG. They had a great web server with features that JSP 2.0 is
just now making available. Those features were common on ATG servers 5
years ago. Their downfall was that they had their own API. However,
JSP flourished and DSP has basically had all of it's cool features
sucked in to JSP. Where does that leave DSP? Nowhere. :(

Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) wrote:

>> Norris Shelton wrote:
>>
>>> This is my sentiments exactly. This does not mean that JSF is
>>> superior, but it is the standard.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why not using JBuilder then? At least 3 years ago that was a standard
>> de facto.
>>

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Why not using JBuilder then? At least 3 years ago
that was a standard de facto.


Because like every other IDE I had ever tried before IDEA I was simply more productive using a text editor.

Also it is hardly the same. IDEA allows you to build whatever you want using the standards, one of the big parts of it's great success is that it is a productivity GUI choice, it does not use proprietary code so with the exception of your project settings you could easily load your project up in any other IDE.

Fabrique forces you to use Fabrique. You could not simply start working with your Fabrique project on Sun Java Studio Creator like you could if it was JSF based. With Fabrique not only are you making a GUI choice, you are making a technology choice, often a choice that developers will not have the power to make themselves, thus limiting the market appeal of the product somewhat.

I like Fabrique, this is not meant to be a post dissing the product as I think you guys have done some fabulous work in the IDE itself. I am, however, of the opinion that not going with JSF is a mistake.

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