JSP 2 support is the third most voted for feature

I am really disappointed in IDEA for not being on the ball about web dev
in java. Its handling of web development was one of the reasons I
chose it over eclipse. But with the lack of attention being given to
this area I am not sure if I will stay with IDEA.
The fact that this bug:

http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=14990

is not higher than a normal priority and still is not committed to a
release is really bad news. There are rumors and innuendos that it might
be addressed in IDEA 5 which is much too long for me to wait.
Whats the point of voting for bugs if IDEA is not going to listen or
even really give feedback on the bug discussion.

just my 2 cents hoping that it adds another grain of sand to intellij
paying attention. Feels like the j2ee developers are being left behind
for the GUI and Aspects. Add new features without neglecting the people
already on board.
Steve

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Actually Steven, JetBrain folks have flat out said they were adding all this in IDEA 5. So it's not a rumor.

I think the fact that BEA Web Works, or what ever the heck it's called, is going open source and Eclipse gaining the web framework, is most likely putting pressure on JB to finally spew out the features that should have been there in 4.x.

Who knows maybe it's us complaining long and hard enough that they've finally come to their sense? :)

R

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The only thing is I'm starting to wonder if it's too late. JB are very close to losing many of their existing J2EE users from what I can see from these forums, some people are sticking with IDEA for J2EE purely because of past relationships with JB and IDEA.

Eclipse 3 is getting very close and has already superseded IDEA for J2EE and it's free, it must be a worry. This combination with BEA will only make Eclipse an even more powerful alternative. I think the biggest problem is that J2EE users feel slighted because other than some nifty interface improvements, modular support and enhanced CVS, we got very little out of IDEA 4.0 to warrant the cost of our upgrade.

Personally I'm keeping the faith and staying on board for IDEA 5.0 but again it will depend on how long before it's due for release as to how long people are willing to wait. Nobody wants to push JB into a release of 5.0 before it's ready despite us all being desperate for the features it promises, however if it takes too long people WILL start moving to Eclipse or other IDEs with more advanced J2EE features.

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Maybe I'm being naive here, but I think in the current IDE market, it's never too late. Given JB's track for outstanding feature support, when they do support it, I think that it will compete. I'm on this IDE because I started using it without having to get a Ph.D. in how it operates, and it allows me to do my work my way. With Eclipse and most other IDEs, I have to bend my brain in certain ways to work with it, and that's annoying. Also Eclipse's original appeal was SWT and the supposedly faster interface it provided. I don't see that as an advantage anymore since I think that Swing effectively beats it when it's handled by the right people, like the folks at JB.

Also note that I don't consider features like Struts layout and framework specific support to be a good feature, or one that will get IDEA in trouble. However if JSP refactoring is introduced (no pun intended) no other IDE does that, and if they can pull it off, people will come back.

The thing is about people leaving is that other people will come, the market changes, you almost never maintain the same user base. With the price point IDEA's always had, it's easy to keep people coming back or switching back.

R

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I hope you are right Robert, I guess my main worry when I say it might be too late is that if major J2EE progression in IDEA is not made it will fall behind so far that it will struggle to catch up.

I use IDEA primarily because of the intuitive interface and the fact that the IDE works with me rather than against me, for those reasons alone I think it is well worth the money and I've not used another IDE that's even come close on to beating IDEA in that way. But features primarily sell products and if IDEA lags behind too much on that front I worry it will not have the same attraction to "on-the-fence" developers as it has in the past.

There are quite a few things JB can do to leave their mark on the J2EE community so it will be interesting to see how things progress over the next few months.

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I think its lost. I am sticking with IDEA for now (just sent in my
renewal to go to 4). But if the eclipse web platform gains even a
modicum of traction I am probably out. Almost 90% of my time is writing
java webapps. The fact that in jsp and html I can't get idea to complete
with this </ is a major major problem.
Any chance jetbrains could actually ask a question here of what features
we would like to see. Seems like they forgot to catch low hanging fruit.
Thanks,
Steve

Robert S. Sfeir wrote:

Actually Steven, JetBrain folks have flat out said they were adding all this in IDEA 5. So it's not a rumor.

I think the fact that BEA Web Works, or what ever the heck it's called, is going open source and Eclipse gaining the web framework, is most likely putting pressure on JB to finally spew out the features that should have been there in 4.x.

Who knows maybe it's us complaining long and hard enough that they've finally come to their sense? :)

R


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Em Fri, 21 May 2004 11:34:40 -0400, Steven Citron-Pousty escreveu:

The fact that in jsp and html I can't get idea to complete with this </ is
a major major problem.


This was fixed in 2018, by the way :)

--
Marcus Brito <pazu@animegaiden.com.br>


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Marcus Brito wrote:

Em Fri, 21 May 2004 11:34:40 -0400, Steven Citron-Pousty escreveu:

>>The fact that in jsp and html I can't get idea to complete with this </ is
>>a major major problem.


This was fixed in 2018, by the way :)

Only in jsp, works better in 2026

--
Best regards,
Maxim Mossienko
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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What a tease. Give us the build! :)

"Maxim Mossienko" <Maxim.Mossienko@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c8lbrf$lua$1@is.intellij.net...

Marcus Brito wrote:

Em Fri, 21 May 2004 11:34:40 -0400, Steven Citron-Pousty escreveu:

>
>
>>The fact that in jsp and html I can't get idea to complete with this </

is

>>a major major problem.
>
>

This was fixed in 2018, by the way :)

>
Only in jsp, works better in 2026

>

--
Best regards,
Maxim Mossienko
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"



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Brad wrote:

What a tease. Give us the build! :)

The build is uploading.


"Maxim Mossienko" <Maxim.Mossienko@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c8lbrf$lua$1@is.intellij.net...

>>Marcus Brito wrote:
>>
>>>Em Fri, 21 May 2004 11:34:40 -0400, Steven Citron-Pousty escreveu:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The fact that in jsp and html I can't get idea to complete with this </


is

>>>>a major major problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>This was fixed in 2018, by the way :)
>>>
>>
>>Only in jsp, works better in 2026
>>
>>--
>>Best regards,
>> Maxim Mossienko
>>IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
>>http://www.intellij.com
>>"Develop with pleasure!"




--
Best regards,
Maxim Mossienko
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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sweet.

"Maxim Mossienko" <Maxim.Mossienko@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c8lcuh$tla$1@is.intellij.net...

Brad wrote:

>

What a tease. Give us the build! :)

The build is uploading.
>

"Maxim Mossienko" <Maxim.Mossienko@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c8lbrf$lua$1@is.intellij.net...

>
>>Marcus Brito wrote:
>>
>>>Em Fri, 21 May 2004 11:34:40 -0400, Steven Citron-Pousty escreveu:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The fact that in jsp and html I can't get idea to complete with this

</

>

is

>
>>>>a major major problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>This was fixed in 2018, by the way :)
>>>
>>
>>Only in jsp, works better in 2026
>>
>>--
>>Best regards,
>> Maxim Mossienko
>>IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
>>http://www.intellij.com
>>"Develop with pleasure!"
>
>
>

>
>

--
Best regards,
Maxim Mossienko
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"



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Maxim I got 2026 (don't ask ;) ) and I still don't see the old configuration with Tomcat. Do I really have to use the executable route for this? That's lame and a huge step back! when can we get that back please?

Thanks
R

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Hi,

Could you be more precise about the problem.

Robert S. Sfeir wrote:

Maxim I got 2026 (don't ask ;) ) and I still don't see the old configuration with Tomcat. Do I really have to use the executable route for this? That's lame and a huge step back! when can we get that back please?

Thanks
R



--
Best regards,
Maxim Mossienko
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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Filed a bug... but...

Open a web project, edit the run configuration, there are 2 tabs now one JSR45 compatible the other Weblogic. It used to be there was a Tomcat screen which made working with the default Tomcat plugin, which is still installed as far as I can tell, easy to do.

That screen and setup is gone. Please bring it back. If this was intentional, you've just made something that was fairly simple to setup, even harder to setup, because now I also have to setup my JAVA_HOME, CATALINA_HOME and lord knows what else.

THings are not getting better.

R

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So you are saying I hjave to use a development build to get a feature
that is basic for web apps editors.
When is the target for a pallada release date. I am not going to use EAP
at this stage in the game.
Steve

Maxim Mossienko wrote:

Marcus Brito wrote:

>> Em Fri, 21 May 2004 11:34:40 -0400, Steven Citron-Pousty escreveu:
>>
>>
>>> The fact that in jsp and html I can't get idea to complete with this
>>> </ is
>>> a major major problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> This was fixed in 2018, by the way :)
>>

Only in jsp, works better in 2026


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I think I agree with you mostly.

JB made a big mistake in the beginning, by building such a huge core, and then thinking of extensibility as an afterthought.

The Eclipse lot had the right idea, build it from modules from the groundup. They can add features and get the stable much faster than JB can; I'm amazed how fast they can rip off features from IDEA and get them working.

What's keeping Eclipse at bay, is IDEA's much superior user interface. Every time there's a major release of Eclipse, I give it a try, and usually delete it from my system about an hour and a half later.

I was hoping that IDEA 5.0 would be a rewrite; break it down into modules and really turn it into a platform folk can build on. I think it's a little too late for that now, so they may as well stay with what they've got.

Sad to say, but Eclipse will take over the market (unless NetBeans comes up with something spectacular), but that doesn't mean that IDEA will vanish; I imagine that a core section of the community will keep upgrading for some time yet, even if the user base doesn't get any bigger.

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