Support for frameworks

Jetbrains Developers,

Please, this is NOT a rant.  I  know and understand that software development is not as simple and  clearcut as some may imagine.  We should all know better because we all write code.

That being said, after reviewing the roadmap for the future of PHPStorm, it looks like the focus is on specific frameworks such as Zend and Symphony.  As good as these might be, not all of us who are developing are using these.  In my own review research of framework reviews on the web, Zend appears to be mostly for highend commercial use. It has the stiffest learning curve and is huge in scope.  Zend as a company already has a IDE that serves this community. Commercial companies can afford this better than smaller developers.

I am wondering, asking, could there be an approach that would allow us as coders to embrace frameworks of our choosing, for example something simpler like Yii, for easier code completion then just targeting specific frameworks?

I am hoping some way to do this is possible.  Is it?  Once the mechanism for supporting frameworks in general is actualized, could this be then applied to support for a wider range of choices?

Thanks,

-John

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Well, these are in roadmap because the names are well known.

We are focused on providing general PHP language support and ways to supply the metadata that are base for any framework support.

http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/WI-1765

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Yes, well known, and fading in their glory :)  (In my opinion).

I read the link.  Yes a generalized approach to make as many frameworks as easy to support as practical in your development cycle is very deseriable.

Yii may seem like an "upstart" compared to say Zend or Symphony, but growing very fast in popularity.  Joomla's development community is very large also.

If voting on these two were possible (Yii and Joomla Platform), they would get my vote(s).

Thanks for your interest and your time to reply,

-John

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I don't get why they would focus on Zend, when Zend already has 2 IDE's (well really one) that is built for Zend Framework/Server/etc. I mean, why waste the time?

The problem with supporting any PHP framework is there are too many. Too many that are well know and used.  Some group will always be left out. And then there are thoseo of us who use our own home-grown frameworks. And users who don't use any framework at all.

Id prefer the dev's build an API that allows us users to add framework support.

I want Jetbrains to focus on PHP/HTML. Cause right now, the latter is lacking: no fast way to move around (Goto Symbol does not work with HTML in a PHP doc - so I can't move quickly to an ID tag. I have to scroll or use Find), code folding doesn't stick, code completion/sense doesn't work inside strings, etc.

Frankly I think frameworks are fading out anyway. As HTML5 /JS take over - right now I'm using PHP to query the database - and that's about it.

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Stephen,

I really appreciate your time to comment.  Even if I don't agree entirely with your point of view, I DO respect it and welcome dialogue on this topic.

Quote: "I don't get why they would focus  on Zend, when Zend already has 2 IDE's (well really one) that is built  for Zend Framework/Server/etc. I mean, why waste the time?"

I think we agree here in that there are IDEs already covering Zend and Symphony.  To do "another one" to support these, would be not as high a priority as others you mention.

Quote: "The  problem with supporting any PHP framework is there are too many. Too  many that are well know and used.  Some group will always be left out.  And then there are thoseo of us who use our own home-grown frameworks.  And users who don't use any framework at all."

Maybe, but there are a couple "front runners" that aren't covered.  Also, I dissagree in that there are MANY people who use Joomla, Drupal and Yii that don't have the same level of support.  PHPStorm is very popular in these communities and we would really appreciate the support if it were available.

Quote: "Id prefer the dev's build an API that allows us users to add framework support."

I hear you on this.  It seems to me though, and I may be totally wrong here, but please, imput from Jetbrains development and others is welcome, that really just a way to include the framework libnraries and have their classes well represented, documented to some degree, along the lines of Doxygen, functionality which is being discussed in anouther thread, would be useful to all development that has homegrown frameworks / libraries as well as the the other here to fore uncovered frameworks.  Why can't we see classes suggested that are not in the current file?

It seems like other ides pickup these classes better than PHPStorm does presently.  I'm sure they are working on this and as the product moves forward, this generalized coverage will imporve.  I think the use case for this is pretty obvious.

Quote: "I  want Jetbrains to focus on PHP/HTML. Cause right now, the latter is  lacking: no fast way to move around (Goto Symbol does not work with HTML  in a PHP doc - so I can't move quickly to an ID tag. I have to scroll  or use Find), code folding doesn't stick, code completion/sense doesn't  work inside strings, etc."

I would agree that this need to be an (included) focus, which is part of development with PHP/HTML/DB development anyway.


Quote: "Frankly  I think frameworks are fading out anyway."

Although I respect your current frustrations with some of the basics you are mentioning above, and the validity of that  opinion, I don't think research and use of these technologies on the web would support that opinion.  Again, Joomla, Drupal, Wordpress and Yii (and other platforms/frameworks?), are so popular, they drive the marketplace.

Quote:  "As HTML5 /JS take over -  right now I'm using PHP to query the database - and that's about it."

HTML and jQuery are not new, just evolving.  JS is nothing new, but they sure are using a lot of libraries.  Those using these technologies also have a fair claim to IDE support fo rtheir libraries.

Again, really good points Stephen.  I hope Jetbrains development can design solutions that make all these easier for us.  I think they need to look at how complete some other IDEs address these issues and decide how to match or exceed their capabilites.  The marketplace drives the necessity of this.

Regards,

-John

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You know, to sum how I feel about PHP...

I use PHP as a templating system. And frankly I hoped PHPStorm would make my life easier. It has not. It's to focused on the PHP side, that the dev's forgot that PHP is really a templating language. At it's basic, and what attracts (and it's easy learning cruve) is the ability to write PHP with HTML/CSS/JS in the same document. The fact that PHP is everywhere, free and easy to learn is the reason it remains one of the most popular platforms. The dev's really need to focus on the HTML side of the IDE. Like static code folding, code completion inside strings, (MUCH) faster and easier navigation (such as: goto symbol does not find ID's inside a PHP/HTML document), filter the structure panel (right now it's useless on any HTML doc with more then 100 lines) - those are the biggies for me right now (and yes, all these, and more, have already been requested more then a year ago). And I have no doubt they will become more importat to the dev's once more development focues on HTML5/CSS/JS.

And that's why I feel it's a mistake to support any one framework over another. Provide a way for us too add that functionality is the best approach. That way, those of us who don't use "frameworks" (well I sort of do - I use a databse class, and a function library - and that's about it), or those of us who use frameworks, that don't enjoy corporate support, aren't left out..

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