Anybody using Eclipse in parallel?

Hi All,
Just tried it myself for a couple of days and it is HORROR. May be I'm so IDEA-holic but it is near to impossible to find relevant Eclipse feature(if so...) and other IDE aware tasks cause application very very user unfriendly.
May be I misusing it? It is impossible that so much people can't see that IDEA in sense of IDE far far ahead of Eclipse, is it greed?. I'm feeling like in boxing gloves in Eclipse and it is in case (at last) when I decide to try use it for some projects with cold mind.

So I'm really confused... May be JB should propose some bonuses to users converting other users to IDEA from E-horror?

I just can't understand what Eclipse doing on professinal market from application quality point of view...

Late noticed that posted it to plugins subforum, so to fix this issue question: what Eclipse plugins missed in IDEA do you think?

Thanks,
Dmitry

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Just tried it myself for a couple of days and it is HORROR.


No, it is not. Try to use Netbeans and you'll learn what HORROR is.

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Hi Dmitry,

It's not really horror. You can use it to develop in Java. It has all the basics you need - editor, compiler, refactorings etc. It doesn't feel right for IDEA fans. There is so much in IDEA that works much more smooth than in Eclipse, but if you never tried IDEA you'll think Eclipse is just right.
One fact that helps Eclilpse is that IBM is backing it. Many companies have IBM servers, IBM WebSphere etc. and it makes sense for them to also take Eclipse.
Another point is that Eclipse is Open Source. And in some communities it's very hyped. Many people don't see a reason to even try a IDE for which they would have to pay if they can get a IDE for nothing.
Another problem is that IDEA had some performance problems with projects consisting of a great number of modules some time back - I think in the 4.0 release. I know of projects which switched to Ecllipse because using IDEA was to great a pain back then.

Currently Eclipse is also the only IDE usable when your projects use OSGI or Eclipse RCP.

Cheers,
Robert

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>Late noticed that posted it to plugins subforum, so to fix this issue question: what Eclipse plugins missed in IDEA do you think?

While I've never used it in anger, every time I look at it the Mylar plugin is advertising more and more drool-worthy functionality. http://www.eclipse.org/mylar

--Dave Griffith

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I don't see the appeal of Mylar. (I guess I need to try it out...) But why do a I want Jira or Bugzilla integrated into Eclipse or IDEA? What's wrong with just switching between IDEA and Firefox browser window with Jira/Bugzilla/whatever? I would rather use the native interface to Jira which is a web browser than a eclipse/IDEA plugin which may have limitations, etc.

There examples show you can create patches for open source projects within Eclipse that you can easily attach to your bugzilla bug; I guess that is useful if you do that, but working on a commercial project I am not submitting patches. I just check the changes into CVS/SVN, and IDEA already provided VCS integration.

Message was edited by:
Alex

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If it was just another way of browsing tasks, I would largely agree (although things like "create issue from stack trace" would be very nice). Mylar isn't about task integration, it's about task context management. With Mylar, when you switch tasks, the editor and project view automatically switch to whatever was available the last time you worked on the task, and the project view is filtered so that only files applicable to that task are shown. Moreover contexts can be shared and saved with issues, so if you need to revisit a bug months later you can immediately pop your IDE back into the context of that bug, even if it was fixed by someone else.

Again, I haven't tried it in anger, so I suppose it's possible that Mylar is either annoying in practice or deeply flaky, but the demos and testimonials I've seen look great. I think the OpenAPI for IDEA has advanced to a point where a port might make sense. In my copious free time...

--Dave Griffith

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I think the OpenAPI for IDEA has advanced to a point where a port might make
sense. In my copious free time...

--Dave Griffith


You must mean your copious coding in your sparse free time. :)

Jon

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I'm an IDEA man but lately I've been stuck using Eclipse (or more correctly - RAD). Compared to IDEA it's very primitive feeling to me and I don't like using it but for now I don't have much choice in the matter. So I know the feeling of horror you're talking about. My only suggestion would be to completely abandon thinking like an IDEA user or you will have lots and lots of problems with Eclipse. Eclipse is nothing like IDEA and feels like it was designed for an entirely different purpose (which is, in fact, the case since it was designed to be an app platform rather than just a Java IDE). "Perspectives" are presented like they are a feature when they are really just a hindrance to getting things done and modal interfaces are pretty much universally regarded as inferior by all GUI designers these days.

Anyway, before I digress to much...just pretend you've never seen IDEA when you're using Eclipse and you'll be much better off. That's hard to do but knowing IDEA is in no way helpful in using Eclipse.

As for its popularity...it's popular primarily because it's free. There are thousands of developers who won't even look at IDEA simply because they can't imagine that it could be better than Eclipse in any significant way.

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heck, I use IntelliJ, Eclipse, and JBuilder.
Each has its strengths and weaknesses.

For example I can't seem to get remote debugging of our Resin servers to work in IntelliJ, so I do that from Eclipse.
And for legacy reasons I still use JBuilder for one project because it's completely set up for debugging another webapp using its integrated Tomcat.

The Eclipse CVS synchronisation screen is also very nice (though the merge screen in IntelliJ is worlds better), and sometimes I can't seem to add a file added to the project from the outside to CVS from within IntelliJ when Eclipse does see it.

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And millions more who'd love to try IntelliJ but their employers won't approve budgets for development tools and they're not willing or able to buy their own (or are willing and able but not allowed to install software on their workstations).

It's an eternal struggle in my experience. While everyone seems to be able to get any hardware and software they want whatever the cost, developers have to make do with the handmedown machines from other departments and whatever tools they can get for free.

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"I just can't understand what Eclipse doing on professinal market from application quality point of view..."

user's point of view:
it's because humans try to avoid changes of any kind. the first ide they use (which is one of the free ones) is going to be the one they will defend against any other because the other ones are different, and different is equal to evil. it's like religion. almost no one looks at every religion and then chooses the best one.

manager's point of view:
eclipse is free, and it's not possible to check how much time would be saved by using idea without spending money and doing the same thing twice to measure the difference.

my point of view:
play around. nature invented the priciple of curiosity to make us do everything different ways when we are children to make us learn. we loose this ability when we grow up, because evolution/god/whatever now wants us to use what we have learned. this worked fine 20.000 years ago, when you finished learning how to grow plants and hunt animals.
today, as a programmer, you should never stop playing around and learning, because the world doesn't stop changing fast either.

"So I'm really confused... May be JB should propose some bonuses to users converting other users to IDEA from E-horror?"

no. actually i like the idea of using a secret ide, unknown to many, which is superior to the one used by the most. it's like working at stargate command as opposed to being a simple scientist. :D

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