When will IDEA be supported running on a 64 bit VM?

Hi all you Idea fans and Idea developers/product managers,
 
I have a really quite large and growing project that is forcing IDEA with a slowly growing frequency to run out of memory running in a 32 bit VM when performing pretty basic operations. No matter what VM options I use, my 8GB 64 bit Vista workstation cannot give it more than about 500MB using the default 32 bit VM supplied with IDEA . It is clear that very soon IDEA will be unable to manage my project at all. I have tried the manual hacks that let IDEA run in a 64 bit VM, giving it 1G or so of memory (using idea.bat) and it runs dramatically faster and without ever a hiccup. But the fonts are all screwed up (much smaller for some reason) and generally it would be nice not to have to roll my own start up environment and worry that this much more effective scenario is not really supported by intellij and every new EAP release has to be massaged to run in 64  bit mode and if it there are problems, no one is going to fix them.
 
It seems that there is this feeling that 64 bit VMs are not faster or better for IDEA and that generally JETBRAIN has zero interest in supporting them, but I can tell you from direct experience that IDEA when used with production size projects like mine not only runs significantly faster on a 64 bit VM (because it has more memory), but that a 64 bit VM is mandatory just to keep the application from having to shut down regularly and frankly rendering IDEA useless.
 
Anyone out there having the same problem? Anyone at Jetbrains care to let us know when they will embrace the large and growing group of us who have 64 bit machines with large amounts of memory?  I am about to go to 16GB  just to run my basic development code base for instance.  I am not sure what I am going to do if Idea remains stuck in the 32 bit past. This doesn't seem like it would be a hard a thing -- am I missing something?
 
cheers,
 
Erik
]]>

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I run IntelliJ with a 64 bit VM (Apple Java 1.6) with no problems whatsoever (MacBook). I have heap size for IntelliJ set at 512 megs. What do you mean you have to "massage" to run in a 64-bit VM.

How large is your project?

There should be no reason you can't allocate more than 500 megs of heap to IntelliJ. What happens when you try?

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Hi Eric,

When you say VM are you referring to the JVM or are you using a product such as VMWare or VirtualBox?
On both my XP and Vista environments I have IJ starting up with 1 and 1.2 GB of heap space respectively..
The requirement to determine your max heap space statically by editing idea.exe.vmoptions, what you referred to as hacking the startup, is a requirement by the Sun JVM not IntelliJ.
In the past when I couldn't allocate a large contigious memory space for the java heap it was due to device drivers that were allocated in the middle of memory.
Perhaps some one on the list knows of tools that can move/compact the physical memory of XP or Vista to allow the larger JVM allocations of contigious memeory ?.

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AFAIK, JRockit JVM can allocate non-contiguous heap. Otherwise, the only realistic solution today is to restart your OS and run JVM as soon as possible after startup.

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Hi Michael -- After a few tries running on Vista with a 64 bit VM without
joy (unuseable GUI behavior), I was wondering why I was doing this instead
of the good folks at intellij. The massaging was that it turned out to be
better (uninteresting reasons) to set up the JDK in Idea.bat instead of the
external environment variable. The 500MB limit is with the 32 bit VM and it
ends up depending on when you start IDEA -- if you start it soon enough
after a boot cycle you can occasionally get more. The big problem is that
when IDEA gives up and runs out of memory -- it ends up corrupting the meta
data cache and you have to reparse the whole project when it restarts --
which for me is five minutes or more (estimated)

My project is a Semantic Search engine running in JBOSS with extensive use
of JBOSS messagine, EJB3 session and postgres backed entity beans,
distributed caches, databases, crawlers, document text extraction, NLP
engines, memory caches, Query planners, GFS file system interface, and much
much more. It has about 25 proprietary modules, and quite a few open
source packages some in source form. I don't have a class count but its
huge...

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Hi Rob,
Yes -- VM == JVM. I understand that the requirement for contiguous space in
the heap is not a java thing but a Sun VM limitation. I would rather switch
to a 64 bit JVM for idea than a different brand of 32 bit JVM.. Thats my
take on it at least...

-Erik

"Rob" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:15984267.125851241110598031.JavaMail.clearspace@app8.labs.intellij.net...

Hi Eric,

>

When you say VM if you are referring to the JVM ?
On both my XP and Vista environments I have IJ starting up with 1 and 1.2
GB of heap space respectively..
The requirement to determine your max heap space statically by eiting
idea.exe.vmoptions, what you referred to as hacking the startup, is a
requirement by the Sun JVM not IntelliJ.
In the past when I couldn't allocate a large contigious memory space for
the java heap it was due to device drivers that were allocated in the
middle of memory.
Perhaps some one on the list knows of tools that can move/compact the
physical memory of XP or Vista to allow the larger JVM allocations though
?.

>

---
Original message URL:
http://www.jetbrains.net/devnet/message/5237107#5237107


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I forgot to mention - anyone else get impossibly small fonts when running IDEA on a 64bit JVM? Got any idea what to do about that?
 
Erik
"Erik James Freed" <erikjfreed@codecision.com> wrote in message news:gtcim5$ogq$1@is.intellij.net...
Hi all you Idea fans and Idea developers/product managers,
 
I have a really quite large and growing project that is forcing IDEA with a slowly growing frequency to run out of memory running in a 32 bit VM when performing pretty basic operations. No matter what VM options I use, my 8GB 64 bit Vista workstation cannot give it more than about 500MB using the default 32 bit VM supplied with IDEA . It is clear that very soon IDEA will be unable to manage my project at all. I have tried the manual hacks that let IDEA run in a 64 bit VM, giving it 1G or so of memory (using idea.bat) and it runs dramatically faster and without ever a hiccup. But the fonts are all screwed up (much smaller for some reason) and generally it would be nice not to have to roll my own start up environment and worry that this much more effective scenario is not really supported by intellij and every new EAP release has to be massaged to run in 64  bit mode and if it there are problems, no one is going to fix them.
 
It seems that there is this feeling that 64 bit VMs are not faster or better for IDEA and that generally JETBRAIN has zero interest in supporting them, but I can tell you from direct experience that IDEA when used with production size projects like mine not only runs significantly faster on a 64 bit VM (because it has more memory), but that a 64 bit VM is mandatory just to keep the application from having to shut down regularly and frankly rendering IDEA useless.
 
Anyone out there having the same problem? Anyone at Jetbrains care to let us know when they will embrace the large and growing group of us who have 64 bit machines with large amounts of memory?  I am about to go to 16GB  just to run my basic development code base for instance.  I am not sure what I am going to do if Idea remains stuck in the 32 bit past. This doesn't seem like it would be a hard a thing -- am I missing something?
 
cheers,
 
Erik
]]>

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The 500MB limit is with the 32 bit VM and it
ends up depending on when you start IDEA -- if you start it soon enough
after a boot cycle you can occasionally get more.


Sounds like you have a problem outside of IDEA/JVM.   Looks like your OS is running out of memory to allocate to IDEA.

I have regularly run IDEA with 768Mb to 1GB in 32-bit mode.

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If I am careful I can get 768m some of the time but I find that 1.2GB is the
minimum at least for consistent results with the debugger on my project (in
a 64 bit VM). Anything under that fails with the out of memory dialogue when
you breakpoint anywhere where is a very large data structure (and other
places too). And when it does crash I have to reparse the meta-data on my
HUGE project - which means that I regularly have to wait long periods of
time if I don't shutdown and switch to 64 before debugging.

I would stay in 64 bit VM but the IDEA fonts are too small to read easily
and the rest of the GUI is smaller as well so its hard to push buttons, open
folders in the explorer, etc. I have to switch to 64 bit mode to debug or
run code analysis and then back to 32 the rest of the time. Its a pain and
getting worse as my project grows. It happens in all the EAP releases for as
long as I can remember.

Anyway this is the sort of behavior that makes it hard to sell Idea as an
IDE for my clients with large projects. There must be a reason why Intellij
is so silent about plans to enter this brave new world where 768M if you are
lucky just doesn't cut it.

-Erik

"k" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:15162708.126441241128350400.JavaMail.clearspace@app8.labs.intellij.net...

The 500MB limit is with the 32 bit VM and it
> ends up depending on when you start IDEA -- if you start it soon enough
> after a boot cycle you can occasionally get more.
>

>

Sounds like you have a problem outside of IDEA/JVM. Looks like your OS is
running out of memory to allocate to IDEA.

>

I have regularly run IDEA with 768Mb to 1GB in 32-bit mode.

>

---
Original message URL:
http://www.jetbrains.net/devnet/message/5237127#5237127


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"If I am careful I can get 768m some of the time but I find that 1.2GB is the minimum at least for consistent results with the debugger on my project"


I guess I still don't understand your problem.   I can set -Xmx1536m and run IDEA in 32 bit just fine.   It even runs with -Xmx2g. 


The only time I've needed to switch to 64 bit is to go over 2gb, which I've never had to do, other than to see it work.

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Well that is interesting-- what environment are you on? I am on Vista 64
with 8GB and the 32 bit VM is the one included with Idea on windows. if I
set Idea.vmoptions to do anything above 768M I always get a dialogue saying
the VM can't be started, anything between 768m and 500m starts up some of
the time -- and with 500M or below it always starts up. And this a
repeatable phenom on 32bit and 64 bit Vista and XP with many totally
different hardware setups.

are you on a mac or something?

"k" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:12901677.128781241198042466.JavaMail.clearspace@app8.labs.intellij.net...

"If I am careful I can get 768m some of the time but I find that 1.2GB is
the minimum at least for consistent results with the debugger on my
project"

>
>

I guess I still don't understand your problem. I can set -Xmx1536m and run
IDEA in 32 bit just fine. It even runs with -Xmx2g.

>
>

The only time I've needed to switch to 64 bit is to go over 2gb, which
I've never had to do, other than to see it work.

>

---
Original message URL:
http://www.jetbrains.net/devnet/message/5237170#5237170


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I have just tried for the fun of it: On my 64bit Vista, but running the
32 bit Sun VM 1.6.0_13 I can go as high as 1500MB.

Seems it really depends on your setup and especially on what DLLs get loaded
into the JVM address space. You might want to try disabling any helper
applications that are prone to load with every started process
(clipboard helpers, security software, quick dictionary lookups, ...)


Erik James Freed wrote:

Well that is interesting-- what environment are you on? I am on Vista 64
with 8GB and the 32 bit VM is the one included with Idea on windows.
if I set Idea.vmoptions to do anything above 768M I always get a
dialogue saying the VM can't be started, anything between 768m and 500m
starts up some of the time -- and with 500M or below it always starts
up. And this a repeatable phenom on 32bit and 64 bit Vista and XP with
many totally different hardware setups.

are you on a mac or something?

"k" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:12901677.128781241198042466.JavaMail.clearspace@app8.labs.intellij.net...

>> "If I am careful I can get 768m some of the time but I find that 1.2GB
>> is the minimum at least for consistent results with the debugger on my
>> project"
>>
>>
>> I guess I still don't understand your problem. I can set -Xmx1536m and
>> run IDEA in 32 bit just fine. It even runs with -Xmx2g.
>>
>>
>> The only time I've needed to switch to 64 bit is to go over 2gb, which
>> I've never had to do, other than to see it work.
>>
>> ---
>> Original message URL:
>> http://www.jetbrains.net/devnet/message/5237170#5237170

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Thanks - thats fascinating -- I know other people with this problem too. Go
figure. Unfortunately I can't eliminate applications since my hot
workstation is also my hot home computer with all the fixins'. I guess I
have to stick with the teensy IDEA GUI under java 1.6/64. hoping someone
knows how to fix that. Windows is always full of surprise. Wonder what
Windows 7 does.


"Stephen Friedrich" <mail@gremlin.info> wrote in message
news:gtfrhe$b52$1@is.intellij.net...
>I have just tried for the fun of it: On my 64bit Vista, but running the

32 bit Sun VM 1.6.0_13 I can go as high as 1500MB.

>

Seems it really depends on your setup and especially on what DLLs get
loaded
into the JVM address space. You might want to try disabling any helper
applications that are prone to load with every started process
(clipboard helpers, security software, quick dictionary lookups, ...)

>
>

Erik James Freed wrote:

>> Well that is interesting-- what environment are you on? I am on Vista 64
>> with 8GB and the 32 bit VM is the one included with Idea on windows. if
>> I set Idea.vmoptions to do anything above 768M I always get a dialogue
>> saying the VM can't be started, anything between 768m and 500m starts up
>> *some* of the time -- and with 500M or below it always starts up. And
>> this a repeatable phenom on 32bit and 64 bit Vista and XP with many
>> totally different hardware setups.
>>
>> are you on a mac or something?
>>
>> "k" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
>> news:12901677.128781241198042466.JavaMail.clearspace@app8.labs.intellij.net...
>>> "If I am careful I can get 768m some of the time but I find that 1.2GB
>>> is the minimum at least for consistent results with the debugger on my
>>> project"
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I still don't understand your problem. I can set -Xmx1536m and
>>> run IDEA in 32 bit just fine. It even runs with -Xmx2g.
>>>
>>>
>>> The only time I've needed to switch to 64 bit is to go over 2gb, which
>>> I've never had to do, other than to see it work.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Original message URL:
>>> http://www.jetbrains.net/devnet/message/5237170#5237170
>>

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Interestingly I found a fix --

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=89138

This guy discovered a flag in the executable header that can be changed
using a free software package. Now I can allocate at least 1GB -- thats
enough for me so now I can use IDEA on 32 bit vms...

-erik



"Erik James Freed" <erikjfreed@codecision.com> wrote in message
news:gtft7b$h3e$1@is.intellij.net...

Thanks - thats fascinating -- I know other people with this problem too.
Go figure. Unfortunately I can't eliminate applications since my hot
workstation is also my hot home computer with all the fixins'. I guess I
have to stick with the teensy IDEA GUI under java 1.6/64. hoping someone
knows how to fix that. Windows is always full of surprise. Wonder what
Windows 7 does.

>
>

"Stephen Friedrich" <mail@gremlin.info> wrote in message
news:gtfrhe$b52$1@is.intellij.net...

>>I have just tried for the fun of it: On my 64bit Vista, but running the
>> 32 bit Sun VM 1.6.0_13 I can go as high as 1500MB.
>>
>> Seems it really depends on your setup and especially on what DLLs get
>> loaded
>> into the JVM address space. You might want to try disabling any helper
>> applications that are prone to load with every started process
>> (clipboard helpers, security software, quick dictionary lookups, ...)
>>
>>
>> Erik James Freed wrote:
>>> Well that is interesting-- what environment are you on? I am on Vista 64
>>> with 8GB and the 32 bit VM is the one included with Idea on windows.
>>> if I set Idea.vmoptions to do anything above 768M I always get a
>>> dialogue saying the VM can't be started, anything between 768m and 500m
>>> starts up *some* of the time -- and with 500M or below it always starts
>>> up. And this a repeatable phenom on 32bit and 64 bit Vista and XP with
>>> many totally different hardware setups.
>>>
>>> are you on a mac or something?
>>>
>>> "k" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
>>> news:12901677.128781241198042466.JavaMail.clearspace@app8.labs.intellij.net...
>>>> "If I am careful I can get 768m some of the time but I find that 1.2GB
>>>> is the minimum at least for consistent results with the debugger on my
>>>> project"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I guess I still don't understand your problem. I can set -Xmx1536m and
>>>> run IDEA in 32 bit just fine. It even runs with -Xmx2g.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The only time I've needed to switch to 64 bit is to go over 2gb, which
>>>> I've never had to do, other than to see it work.
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Original message URL:
>>>> http://www.jetbrains.net/devnet/message/5237170#5237170
>>>


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I am on 32 bit Vista with a 32 bit JVM and 3.5GB of RAM.
I can set the Xmx in the idea.exe.vmoptions as high as I like, up to the maximum amount of free memory.
A quick test got up to 1400m with no problems.

I have a project with about 10,000 files and IDEA runs perfectly fine with the following settings:

-Xms150m
-Xmx1024m
-XX:NewRatio=1
-XX:SurvivorRatio=35
-XX:PermSize=128m
-XX:MaxPermSize=128m
-ea
-agentlib:yjpagent=disablej2ee,disablecounts,disablealloc,sessionname=IntelliJIDEA

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Thanks for this -- I am totally mystified as to why all of the many Vista 64
machines I (and a few others I know) have tried this on all fail the exact
same way when others seem to have no problem at all. The fact that I can
only get to 1GB if I flip a bit in the idea.exe executable header using
utilities and instructions i found online when I searched for others having
a similar problem with apps makes it even more mysterious. There must be an
explanation but it stumps me. Fortunately I have a work around so I guess I
will just live with the mystery!
Sorry to use up people's time...

-Erik


"opticyclic" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:12460855.133101241430478360.JavaMail.clearspace@app8.labs.intellij.net...
>I am on 32 bit Vista with a 32 bit JVM and 3.5GB of RAM.

I can set the Xmx in the idea.exe.vmoptions as high as I like, up to the
maximum amount of free memory.
A quick test got up to 1400m with no problems.

>

I have a project with about 10,000 files and IDEA runs perfectly fine with
the following settings:

>

  -XX:MaxPermSize=128m -ea -agentlib:yjpagent=disablej2ee,disablecounts,disablealloc,sessionname=IntelliJIDEA]]>

>
>
>

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