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Hi Dmitry,

I understand that you can't fix a bug without specifics. I wasn't asking for
any specific bug to be fixed. This may be an isolated experience but what I
am seeing with recent builds may indicate that you need to do more or better
testing before release to the EAP community. I think you guys do a great job
(other than the inexplicably poor design/implementation of the debug console
UI) and I have filed more than one bug carefully before. But when I see my
coding efforts completely derailed by six or seven immediate and completely
different showstoppers, I sort of lose interest in investing my time in
helping you get to the bottom of them.

really trying to be helpful in the limited time i have...

erik

"Dmitry Jemerov" <yole@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:63d8c2ccbfc7a8cb0cd35dfa3c80@news.jetbrains.com...

Hello Erik,

>

Please file a JIRA request and attach the contents of your system\log
directory (particularly the thread dumps). This will let us see where the
hangs come from. Without specifics, it's hard for us to tell you anything
useful.

>
>> Build 8995 is the first EAP build in a long time that has so many
>> problems
>> that i have to
>> backout to a previous version. After using it half a day I have had
>> about 7
>> pretty different
>> problems that involved hangs that lost work, having to delete caches
>> and
>> start over, and
>> generally having to kill the idea process because it simple goes away
>> maxxing out one core out of four. Its unuseable
>> and not just because of one bug or so.
>> Also it seems that Diana over the last months has an increasingly
>> harder
>> time doing refactoring -- especially when it comes to
>> handling any subversion changes. I pretty consistently now have to go
>> back
>> and add or delete files that it missed and it seems to leave the
>> working directories garbled enough that I have had to check out the
>> tree
>> again and hand update any new, changed,
>> or deleted files from the broken tree into the new tree. Needless to
>> say
>> this is an error prone process and I have lost work
>> and time.
>> I wish I had time to stop what I am doing and document all these
>> problems
>> but I just don't. I need to get back to something
>> that allows me to code effectively.
>> Has something so fundamental changed within Idea 8 that I have to
>> worry whether its ready for prime time even in these release
>> candidates? I have always been impressed at how every EAP seems pretty
>> useable even if it has a few small problems that were easy to avoid.
>> This is some sort of sea change.
>>
>> erik
>>

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Development Lead
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"

>


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Hello Erik,

You do not need to reproduce the problems again or to describe the exact
steps you performed. Please let us see the thread dump files, and we'll investigate
if we can extract something useful out of them. :)

Also please understand that EAP builds undergo very limited testing before
they are released, and this has always been and will be the case. We make
the decision to release an EAP at a given day depending on whether something
is known to be broken or unstable. But since we want to deliver the latest
fixes to the community as quickly as possible, there's very little chance
of performing exhaustive testing on any given build.

I understand that you can't fix a bug without specifics. I wasn't
asking for any specific bug to be fixed. This may be an isolated
experience but what I am seeing with recent builds may indicate that
you need to do more or better testing before release to the EAP
community. I think you guys do a great job (other than the
inexplicably poor design/implementation of the debug console UI) and I
have filed more than one bug carefully before. But when I see my
coding efforts completely derailed by six or seven immediate and
completely different showstoppers, I sort of lose interest in
investing my time in helping you get to the bottom of them.

really trying to be helpful in the limited time i have...

erik

"Dmitry Jemerov" <yole@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:63d8c2ccbfc7a8cb0cd35dfa3c80@news.jetbrains.com...

>> Hello Erik,
>>
>> Please file a JIRA request and attach the contents of your system\log
>> directory (particularly the thread dumps). This will let us see where
>> the hangs come from. Without specifics, it's hard for us to tell you
>> anything useful.
>>
>>> Build 8995 is the first EAP build in a long time that has so many
>>> problems
>>> that i have to
>>> backout to a previous version. After using it half a day I have had
>>> about 7
>>> pretty different
>>> problems that involved hangs that lost work, having to delete caches
>>> and
>>> start over, and
>>> generally having to kill the idea process because it simple goes
>>> away
>>> maxxing out one core out of four. Its unuseable
>>> and not just because of one bug or so.
>>> Also it seems that Diana over the last months has an increasingly
>>> harder
>>> time doing refactoring -- especially when it comes to
>>> handling any subversion changes. I pretty consistently now have to
>>> go
>>> back
>>> and add or delete files that it missed and it seems to leave the
>>> working directories garbled enough that I have had to check out the
>>> tree
>>> again and hand update any new, changed,
>>> or deleted files from the broken tree into the new tree. Needless to
>>> say
>>> this is an error prone process and I have lost work
>>> and time.
>>> I wish I had time to stop what I am doing and document all these
>>> problems
>>> but I just don't. I need to get back to something
>>> that allows me to code effectively.
>>> Has something so fundamental changed within Idea 8 that I have to
>>> worry whether its ready for prime time even in these release
>>> candidates? I have always been impressed at how every EAP seems
>>> pretty
>>> useable even if it has a few small problems that were easy to avoid.
>>> This is some sort of sea change.
>>> erik
>>>
>> --
>> Dmitry Jemerov
>> Development Lead
>> JetBrains, Inc.
>> http://www.jetbrains.com/
>> "Develop with Pleasure!"
--
Dmitry Jemerov
Development Lead
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


0
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fair enough... just wanted to give you some feedback about my impression of
increased instability especially when its a 'release candidate'.

best,

erik


"Dmitry Jemerov" <yole@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:63d8c2ccc00238cb0d9dff73eaa0@news.jetbrains.com...

Hello Erik,

>

You do not need to reproduce the problems again or to describe the exact
steps you performed. Please let us see the thread dump files, and we'll
investigate if we can extract something useful out of them. :)

>

Also please understand that EAP builds undergo very limited testing before
they are released, and this has always been and will be the case. We make
the decision to release an EAP at a given day depending on whether
something is known to be broken or unstable. But since we want to deliver
the latest fixes to the community as quickly as possible, there's very
little chance of performing exhaustive testing on any given build.

>
>> I understand that you can't fix a bug without specifics. I wasn't
>> asking for any specific bug to be fixed. This may be an isolated
>> experience but what I am seeing with recent builds may indicate that
>> you need to do more or better testing before release to the EAP
>> community. I think you guys do a great job (other than the
>> inexplicably poor design/implementation of the debug console UI) and I
>> have filed more than one bug carefully before. But when I see my
>> coding efforts completely derailed by six or seven immediate and
>> completely different showstoppers, I sort of lose interest in
>> investing my time in helping you get to the bottom of them.
>>
>> really trying to be helpful in the limited time i have...
>>
>> erik
>>
>> "Dmitry Jemerov" <yole@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
>> news:63d8c2ccbfc7a8cb0cd35dfa3c80@news.jetbrains.com...
>>
>>> Hello Erik,
>>>
>>> Please file a JIRA request and attach the contents of your system\log
>>> directory (particularly the thread dumps). This will let us see where
>>> the hangs come from. Without specifics, it's hard for us to tell you
>>> anything useful.
>>>
>>>> Build 8995 is the first EAP build in a long time that has so many
>>>> problems
>>>> that i have to
>>>> backout to a previous version. After using it half a day I have had
>>>> about 7
>>>> pretty different
>>>> problems that involved hangs that lost work, having to delete caches
>>>> and
>>>> start over, and
>>>> generally having to kill the idea process because it simple goes
>>>> away
>>>> maxxing out one core out of four. Its unuseable
>>>> and not just because of one bug or so.
>>>> Also it seems that Diana over the last months has an increasingly
>>>> harder
>>>> time doing refactoring -- especially when it comes to
>>>> handling any subversion changes. I pretty consistently now have to
>>>> go
>>>> back
>>>> and add or delete files that it missed and it seems to leave the
>>>> working directories garbled enough that I have had to check out the
>>>> tree
>>>> again and hand update any new, changed,
>>>> or deleted files from the broken tree into the new tree. Needless to
>>>> say
>>>> this is an error prone process and I have lost work
>>>> and time.
>>>> I wish I had time to stop what I am doing and document all these
>>>> problems
>>>> but I just don't. I need to get back to something
>>>> that allows me to code effectively.
>>>> Has something so fundamental changed within Idea 8 that I have to
>>>> worry whether its ready for prime time even in these release
>>>> candidates? I have always been impressed at how every EAP seems
>>>> pretty
>>>> useable even if it has a few small problems that were easy to avoid.
>>>> This is some sort of sea change.
>>>> erik
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Dmitry Jemerov
>>> Development Lead
>>> JetBrains, Inc.
>>> http://www.jetbrains.com/
>>> "Develop with Pleasure!"

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Development Lead
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"

>


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