New debugger UI in build 7656

Hello everyone,

Has anyone already tried the new debugger layout UI which has been included
in the latest 7.0.3 EAP build? Any feedback on that?

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Development Lead
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


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Hello Dmitry,

It looks very nice and flexible, it should be able to please everybody now.
:)

Best,
Andrei

DJ> Hello everyone,
DJ>
DJ> Has anyone already tried the new debugger layout UI which has been
DJ> included in the latest 7.0.3 EAP build? Any feedback on that?
DJ>


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Well done!

Tom

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Unless I missed something: Still bad.

Isn't there anybody at JetBrains who uses a big 19:10 monitor? I use a 30' monitor with 2560x1600 resolution and even if there is lots of space, I want to use this space as good as possible.

If I now put the debug window at the bottom of the screen, I want the console-pane left or right the other panes because I have lots of horizontal space and not so much vertical space.

And if I put it at the right side of the screen (much prefered to the above, because the editor area requires mostly vertical space and not so much horizontal space) I have enough space for the console output but the other panes are aligned horizontally - which is also bad, because there isn't so much horizontal space now and I would choose to put the frames-pane over the variables-pane to use this space efficiently.

The main problem is that Idea still uses predefined and inflexible layouts. This is rather disappointing. Eclipse is much more configurable in this sense and I can't imagine why it is so difficult to implement a more flexible layout management. A more powerful layout manager would allow to create custum configurations which match the different users needs and allows better overall conistency.

I think a better layout manager should be a prime objective for Idea 8 to finally clear up the mess and reach the same flexibility as the competition.

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I think new layout is a great improvement over the layout in previous 7 releases and 7.0.3 EAPs. It has some nice flexibility. And the efforts are appreciated.

I especially like that the stepping buttons are not attached to a the frames pane. I still think it would be nice if the stepping buttons could be made floatable (i.e.could be detached). There are times during a debugging session I am working with the mouse more than the keyboard. So the ability to move the stepping buttons close to where the majority of the mouse pointer activity is would eliminate a lot of mouse movement.

I do agree with Karsten's point. It would be very useful to have it so the various panes (watches. variables, console, and frames) could be stacked on top of each other in addition to side by side. This would better allow for the debugger to be used as a side tool. Ideally, it would be nice if this was not a one or the other selection, but if you could mix the panes so some were on top of each other, and others side by side. See the attached screen mock up for an example.



Attachment(s):
debug-alt-layout.png
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Hi,

Is "Run to Cursor" new, or have I just been staring at it without seeing it all along? If it's new, THANK YOU! (If it's not new, please send the thanks back to whenver it was implemented...)

Now, is there a modifier-keysgutter-click that has the same effect as selecting a line and clicking on Run to Cursor (or ALTF9)? That would be very, very nice.


Randall Schulz

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Well, it's almost perfect now. Exact problems will be visible in several weeks of usage but great thanks anyway.

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"The main problem is that Idea still uses predefined and inflexible layouts. This is rather disappointing. Eclipse is much more configurable in this sense"

]]>
eclipse has a very flexible layout because it seriouly needs one ;)
</counterattack>

the new debugger layout is excellent. it's exactly what i suggested somewhere in early idea 6.0 eap stages, but more polished.

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This is much better, but still not as flexible as it should/could? be.

I would really like to be able to drag the attached debug panes into any order, so, for example, I could have the watches at the bottom, the console on the top left, then the variables top middle, and the frames top right, or whatever suits the debug session. Surely this can't be so difficult?

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Hi Dmitry,

I agree with most of the other posters that this is a really great improvement even though I also think that the new solution is still not quite optimal in terms of flexibility.

My main complaint however is concerning keyborad usability. I am often debugging two or more applications at the same time (see attached screenshot), and while it had already been painful in previous IDEA versions to move from the debugging windows of one application to those of the other without the mouse, I believe it is completely impossible now.

So, I would ask the people at JetBrains to please come up with some nice keyboard shortcuts to ease the navigation between all parts of the sometimes quite complex debug toolwindow.

Regards,
Jens



Attachment(s):
DebuggerUI.png
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Please be specific. You claim you want to switch between debug sessions by keyboard. That's it?

--
Kirill Kalishev,
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"

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Please be specific. You claim you want to switch
between debug sessions by keyboard. That's it?


Well, yes, but of course without losing the functionality of moving
(a) between the tabs within one debug session (which is currently done with ALT+LEFT/RIGHT) and
(b) between the "constituents" of the "grid" in one debug session (which is currently done with TAB)

Regards,
Jens

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So you admit you can do it by the keyboard. Where is the point? What's wrong with alt-left/right and tab?

Kirill Kalishev,
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"

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Kirill Kalishev wrote:

So you admit you can do it by the keyboard. Where is the point? What's wrong with alt-left/right and tab?


No, he said he can move between different parts of a single debug
session (between tabs and between parts of the "grid tab"), but he can't
move between two different debug session (the top-level "pseudo-tabs" in
the blue window title) using the keyboard.

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Just a wild stab in the dark here because I'm not using the EAP anymore, but have you tried using Ctrl-Tab and Ctrl-Shift-Tab?

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Any suggestions? To make a dedicated keyboard shortcut for "a tab above
my tab"?
--
Kirill Kalishev
JetBrains, Inc.
http://jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

On 2008-01-21 15:13:51 +0300, Jonas Kvarnstr?m <jonkv@ida.liu.se> said:

Kirill Kalishev wrote:

>> So you admit you can do it by the keyboard. Where is the point? What's
>> wrong with alt-left/right and tab?


No, he said he can move between different parts of a single debug
session (between tabs and between parts of the "grid tab"), but he
can't move between two different debug session (the top-level
"pseudo-tabs" in the blue window title) using the keyboard.



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I'm loving it - it has a sweet spot between the 6 and 7 views. Making
it very easy to switch tabs into detached views, or panes.

+1000

Dmitry Jemerov wrote:

Hello everyone,

>

Has anyone already tried the new debugger layout UI which has been
included in the latest 7.0.3 EAP build? Any feedback on that?

>

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So I suppose you use a different monitor as I do. But thats the point here: People have different configurations and needs etc. And using a fixed layout may be appropriate for simple applications but for a complex application like Idea its simply not appropriate. For example with Netbeans it took me 20sec to create a layout which suits my needs much better.

While I still prefer IDEA because of it's 'inner beauty' (refactoring, code completion etc) IDEAs Gui is looking more and more dated. I also think that all those tiny fixes here and there had cost more developement time than a more flexible solution would have.

To be a bit more productive here: If all split-panes had a menu-option to change the splitter-orientation between horizontal and vertical, the GUI would be much more usable for more 'uncommon' orientations. Not only for the debugger GUI but also for the run-test-pane (which is very ugly if you want to place it left or right instead of top or bottom). I would still consider this an inferior solution to a real cunstomizable GUI but it would be a bug step forward.

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I am often debugging two or more
applications at the same time (see attached
screenshot), and while it had already been painful in
previous IDEA versions to move from the debugging
windows of one application to those of the other
without the mouse, I believe it is completely
impossible now.


Is there any improvement on this? I played around with all kinds of combinations of special keys and TAB and arrow keys in the latest EAP build (7718), but I believe it is still not possible to navigate from one debug session to the other without the mouse.

I would hate it if this will be the final state of the debugger in Selena; please fix it before the 7.0.3 GA (or at least in 7.0.n for some n > 3).

Best regards,
Jens

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