Selena new debug layout

Obviously it subjective but ...
1. Would like to be able to close only one tab (using click and not drug)
2. There is a huge screen estate waste especially on Console bar (above and bellow)
3. Would like to have option to see Frames, Var and Watches as tab row or something like this, (don't know exactly how, but whatever it is now doesn't look good to me). Maybe Restore layout button should bring ">> popup" and give some more layout options to choose from.

Thanks

Message was edited by:
Vladimir Goncharov

25 comments

I agree -- I'm not happy with the new layout.

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On 2007-04-10 02:00:42 +0400, Vladimir Goncharov <vladgo@hotmail.com> said:

Obviously it subjective but ...
1. Would like to be able to close only one tab (using click and not drug)
2. There is a huge screen estate waste especially on Console bar (above
and bellow)
3. Would like to have option to see Frames, Var and Watches as tab row
or something like this, (don't exactly how but whatever it now doesn't
look good to me). Maybe Restore layout button should bring ">> popup"
and give some more layout options to choose from.

Thanks


1. - Middle button click

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ehmm... mouse?

I was hoping IntelliJ would become somewhat more keyboard friendly. I really dislike using my mouse, and I'm a big fan of all the shortcuts IntelliJ provides. Unfortunately, I still have to use the mouse to close some overlapping windows (usually, shiftescape works, but not always. It's the same in the project browser: the collapse the whole tree, you have to press altshift+` or something, but for getting that to work, you first have to focus on the project browser with the mouse... not really handy, is it?

Erik

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Keyboard support is provided. Check the popup menu right on debugger tabs.

On 2007-04-10 03:32:24 +0400, Erik Pragt <no_reply@jetbrains.com> said:

ehmm... mouse?

I was hoping IntelliJ would become somewhat more keyboard friendly. I
really dislike using my mouse, and I'm a big fan of all the shortcuts
IntelliJ provides. Unfortunately, I still have to use the mouse to
close some overlapping windows (usually, shift+escape works, but not
always. It's the same in the project browser: the collapse the whole
tree, you have to press altshift` or something, but for getting that
to work, you first have to focus on the project browser with the
mouse... not really handy, is it?

Erik



--
Kirill Kalishev
JetBrains, Inc.
http://jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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Maxim, hows does 'middle button click' translate to a MacBook with just one button? Control-click is already taken, so how do I get a middle click?

S.

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What in particular you don't like about it?

--
Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Anders Wallgren" <anders_wallgren@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message news:20708256.1176144967516.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
>I agree -- I'm not happy with the new layout.


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To make dimiss all other windows in the debug just double-click on the one you want.

I would actually like the opposite feature: remove selective windows from the view (i.e. watch and console together).

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What in particular you don't like about it?


By far the biggest problem: the Debug view takes up too much vertical space. I beg you to rethink this aspect of the design.

I find myself moving the divider between the Console and Frame/Variables section up and down all the time to see more log output or more variables.

To compensate for this fiddling, I end up using so much vertical space for the debug view that I then can't see enough of the source code for my liking, so I end up dragging the slider between the source view and debug view up and down all the time. So I've got two dividers that I'm continually adjusting to get what I want on the screen, and I haven't found a single position that I'm happy with.

It reminds me of trying to draw a circle with an Etch-a-Sketch: it's a difficult UI for the task and I'm never happy with the results.

I never use the "Watches" feature, so that's wasted space for me, but probably not for everyone. I find myself continually sliding that divider all the way over to the right to get rid of it. But really, that's a minor nit compared to the vertical space problems.

The threads popup in the Frames view is a pain to use when there are dozens of threads -- the threads aren't sorted by name, even.. I think a layout with the threads in a list is a better approach for applications with many threads. Again, that's a minor issue compared to the vertical space problems.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I think it's late enough in the game that it's time to say it: the vertical layout of the debug redesign is a big step back for usability and you should go back to the drawing board and figure out how to fix it.

As always: love the product, it makes my job easier and my work better, but nobody gets it right 100% of the time...

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May it is just better to put button on the left bar that can be pressed/depressed because closing pane creates another button bar that takes even more from the screen estate. There is very good UI option >> introduced in Selena to expand button list if it doesn't feet (may use Restore layout button to expand the options)

And another one - don't allow to close all the tabs it looks silly.

Message was edited by:
Vladimir Goncharov

0

>

By far the biggest problem: the Debug view takes up too much vertical space. I beg you to rethink this aspect of the design.

>

Although we won't change the design dramatically, we'll certainly try to do something to reduce the vertical space usage even more.

I find myself moving the divider between the Console and Frame/Variables section up and down all the time to see more log output
or more variables.

>

Let's consider alternatives...If you find previous (tabbed) layout to be better, then you must live with the fact that console and
frames-variables cannot be shown to you simultaneously. The new UI is more flexible in that it allows you to "emulate" the previous
one: just hide the console pane (and watches as well) with the middle button click. This is what I do when debug (I also don't use
watches) and I have no "vertical space" problem, provided the console is hidden. When I want to look at the program output, I
restore console, check its contents and close it back: similar actions I had to do in the previous layout. Yet the new layout offers
2 additional benefits: it allows to view frames/watches/console panes simultaneously, or make them float (useful in dual monitor
configuration). Of course, each layout has its advantages and disadvantages, but there is an opportunity for developer to choose the
one that fits best at the moment.

The threads popup in the Frames view is a pain to use when there are dozens of threads


While the threads combobox is, of course, not as convenient as the list, everything depends on what actions you want to do on
threads. In most cases the view showing a thread dump is enough. For this we've got "Export threads" action. Not a good name,
though, most likely we'll rename it into the "Show Thread Dump" action.

>-- the threads aren't sorted by name, even..

But they are :), please check.


--
Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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Although we won't change the design dramatically, we'll certainly try to
do something to reduce the vertical space usage even more.


Good to hear. I suggest following first step: instead of showing
JTabbedAreas with a single tab, don't wrap the component in a JTabbedArea
unless there are more than one child components.

Tom

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I must admit that I do like the ability to float the console on another monitor.

It does currently have the drawback that the floating window gets focus when you start a new debug session, so you have to click on the main frame again to actually start stepping through code - is this something which can be fixed?

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In general I think the new layout is an improvement.

I'd like to have the ability to expand a given tab to the entire debug frame or perhaps the entire window the way clicking on a source file tab works.

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Let's consider alternatives...If you find previous
(tabbed) layout to be better, then you must live with
the fact that console and
frames-variables cannot be shown to you
simultaneously. The new UI is more flexible in that
it allows you to "emulate" the previous
one: just hide the console pane (and watches as well)
with the middle button click. This is what I do when
debug (I also don't use
watches) and I have no "vertical space" problem,
provided the console is hidden. When I want to look
at the program output, I
restore console, check its contents and close it
back: similar actions I had to do in the previous
layout. Yet the new layout offers
2 additional benefits: it allows to view
frames/watches/console panes simultaneously, or make
them float (useful in dual monitor
configuration). Of course, each layout has its
advantages and disadvantages, but there is an
opportunity for developer to choose the
one that fits best at the moment.


That doesn't sound so bad. Two problems, though: I don't have a middle mouse button, and it's not as easy as it was when there were keyboard shortcuts. Are there shortcuts for hiding/restoring the various panes?

While the threads combobox is, of course, not as
convenient as the list, everything depends on what
actions you want to do on
threads. In most cases the view showing a thread dump
is enough. For this we've got "Export threads"
action. Not a good name,
though, most likely we'll rename it into the "Show
Thread Dump" action.


Consider this: I'm debugging a server with 32 threads in a thread pool (plus numerous other threads from other components, so there are dozens of threads). I need to find the one that's running a particular method. This is much easier with a list with nested stack traces, or even just a list with the thread state listed (assuming many of the threads are parked on a lock).

With the combobox it's: (1) click the combobox (2) move the mouse a bit so it's over the combobox content and I can scroll using the mouse wheel. Don't move the mouse too far, because if you stray outside the combobox contents and hit the scroll wheel, the comboxbox goes away. (3) Now with the mouse over the combobox, the selection changes to whatever list entry the mouse is hovering on, so I have to make sure the Frame section is wide enough to show the currently selected thread, so I know which one to select next. (4) after selecting the new thread, be sure to click somewhere else afterwards, since the combobox retains the focus instead of giving it back to the stack frame, and any navigation keys will change the selected thread to the next/previous one instead of navigating up and down the stack.

I hope you get the picture...

>-- the threads aren't sorted by name, even..

But they are :), please check.


But they're not: threads with capitalized names are sorted above threads with non-capitalized names.

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You can expand a tab by double-clicking on it.

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Hmm, I tried double clicking the tab didn't seem to work. Will try again... Thanks.

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Also, if I maximize a tab, then the layout returns to the default the next time I hit debug. I think that the layout ought to stay the same.

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>

But they're not: threads with capitalized names are sorted above threads with non-capitalized names.


Right, will fix this.

--
Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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I know the debugger has shortcuts (F7, F8, F9, etc), but I wasn't refering to that.

What I mean is quite easy to reproduce: click on '3: Find', than on '4: Run' and than on '5: Debug'. Now click in the text typing part of the editor, and press Shift+Escape. This closes 1 of the previously opened windows, but leave the other ones open, so you have to focus on it by using the mouse, and than close them.

I'm have a big preference for working with keyboard only, so I'm usually a bit bothered by stuff like this. The same with overlapping shortcuts: Ctrl + '-' folds the current code block, as well as doing a 'collapse all' in the project window.

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What popup menu? See this one:
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-12354

Kirill Kalishev wrote:

Keyboard support is provided. Check the popup menu right on debugger tabs.


--
Martin Fuhrer
Fuhrer Engineering AG
http://www.fuhrer.com

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Kirill,

I love the new approach in the latest build, it's a great improvement. I would even reduce the border around the tabs to one pixel top and bottom, looks good and saves even more vertical space. Oh and by the way: your changes to ActionManager.xml have been overridden later on yesterday, you'd better reapply them once again.

- Martin

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On 2007-04-14 08:20:12 +0400, Martin Fuhrer <mf@fuhrer.com> said:

What popup menu? See this one: http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-12354

Kirill Kalishev wrote:

>> Keyboard support is provided. Check the popup menu right on debugger tabs.

Thanks, that was fixed.

--
Kirill Kalishev
JetBrains, Inc.
http://jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

0

On 2007-04-12 02:34:26 +0400, Simon Knott <no_reply@jetbrains.com> said:

I must admit that I do like the ability to float the console on another
monitor.
It does currently have the drawback that the floating window gets focus
when you start a new debug session, so you have to click on the main
frame again to actually start stepping through code - is this something
which can be fixed?


Sure. Please file a request.

--
Kirill Kalishev
JetBrains, Inc.
http://jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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And why did you change only the keymap for MacOSX? Don't you think that we poor Windows users do like keyboard shortcuts too? :)

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If you would like the option to use the debug window layout as it was in IDEA 6,
please vote on this jira issue : http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-23089

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