Unfixed bugs in IDEA 7.0

When reading the "IDEA 7.0 released"-thread one could believe, that all
users are happy with the release. Sorry to say, but I'm not happy, because a
lot of reported bugs (which partly are newly introduced in this release,
long standing or unfinished new features) are not fixed yet.

To convince other IDEA users to purchase update licenses it would help me a
lot to see following issues fixed in the near future. Otherwise,
justifying to purchase an update will be a hard job for me. Here are the
issues in random order:

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-21378
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-15361
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-22059
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-13666
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-12942
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-12940
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-15446
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-21693
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-19954
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-17504

Thanks for listening to a long-time IDEA user who, currently, is unsatisfied
with the quality of the release.

Tom

19 comments

Hello Tom,

To convince other IDEA users to purchase update licenses it would help
me a lot to see following issues fixed in the near future.
Otherwise, justifying to purchase an update will be a hard job for me.
Here are the issues in random order:

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-22059
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-21693


Just as an update: These two issues require low-level changes with a high
probability of unwanted side effects, so we don't plan to fix them in the
7.0.x bugfix update series.

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Development Lead
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


0

Thanks for clarification. What about the other reported issues?

Tom

0

These issues still seem to be open in 7.0.1...

0

My co-worker and me will not purchase updates until most of these bugs are
fixed.

Tom

0

Seems to apply to IDEA 7.0.2EAP, too, ...

0

Don't you want our purchase order?

0

On 2007-11-08 15:18:47 +0300, Tom <noname@jetbrains.com> said:

Don't you want our purchase order?


First of all we want your comments on issues listed, where required.
Particulary, for issues resolved negatively it would be great to know
if you accept the resolution.
Second of all, this kind of 'financial pressing' won't work here. If we
limit relations down to money it appears 2 licenses upgrade won't cover
our expenses on implementing functionality you're requesting. This
doesn't mean we won't implement stuff you're asking for. It's just not
about money at all.
Anyway, it's your decision if what we've done in version 7 justifies
upgrade cost. I don't quite get how what we haven't done is included
into the calculation.

Regards,
Maxim Shafirov

0

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-21378


Still open.

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-15361


Resolved, although in the sample screencast I sent to Alexey there was
another problem visible. Don't know whether this one is fixed, too.

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-22059


Seems to be harder to implement. OK, I accept this.

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-13666


No problem anymore for me because the JDK-1.4-project is finished.
Nevertheless, a very strange problem.

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-12942


Resolved.

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-12940


Marked as obsolete, although the sample from October 24th still shows a
small problem with the debugger.

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-15446
http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-21693


Still open.

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-19954


Closed.

http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-17504


Resolved.

Second of all, this kind of 'financial pressing' won't work here. If we limit relations down to money it appears 2 licenses upgrade won't cover our expenses on implementing functionality you're requesting.


That's absolutely correct, but it would be more EAP-user-friendly if you
could try to fix (nearly) all open bugs before doing a release, at least
those which were newly introduced. Finally, a lot of EAP users help you to
reduce the cost of finding bugs although they still have to pay for an
update (this was different in the past).

This doesn't mean we won't implement stuff you're asking for.


IIRC, the above issues are bugs, at least from a users point of view.

Cheers,
Tom

0

What's the progress on the issues?

Tom

0

No one at Jetbrains interested in fixing these bugs?

Tom

0

Tom,

If you look at the 7.0.2 JIRA road map panel (http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project:roadmap-panel) you will see that it contains 472 fixed JIRA reports. Just because yours didn't make it doesn't mean that JetBrains and its staff doesn't care. We all have feature requests that we would love to see make it, and bugs that we feel that should have the highest priority. But, as I am sure you are aware being a developer yourself, a company needs to prioritize the requests and bugs as best they can. It's an unfortunate fact of business. And if I may be frank, you will find, as the expression goes, that you will attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.

0

Tom,

.... And if I may be frank, you will find, as the expression goes,
that you will attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.


And you can never have too many flies!

Or is it "files?"


RRS

0

If you look at the 7.0.2 JIRA road map panel
(http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project:roadmap-panel)
you will see that it contains 472 fixed JIRA reports.


Cool, then one more should not care. BTW, doesn't this large number of fixed
bugs mean - frankly speaking - IDEA 7 was released in beta state?

Just because yours didn't make it doesn't mean that JetBrains and its
staff doesn't care. And if I may be frank, you will find, as the
expression goes, that you will attract more flies with honey than with
vinegar.


Not making noise from the customer/user side usually means to developers
(not limited to IDEA) either the customer/user does not care any more about
this issue or (s)he is already gone (to another product).

Tom

0

Cool, then one more should not care.

But why should that one more necessarily be yours, rather than one of the others? And when does that "one more" become the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back. There is always "one more" thing that can/should be implemented.


>BTW, doesn't this large number of fixed

bugs mean - frankly speaking - IDEA 7 was released in
beta state?

One could argue that. (I am not saying that I completely disagree with you, or that I fully agree with you.) Others could just as easily argue that it is a sign that JetBrains cares enough to fix and improve things in its released products. Sadly, there are many companies today that once a major version has been released stop caring and move on to the next. Others may say it is a sign that JetBrains wants to get the latest and greatest out to its customers as soon as possible.

Again, its an unfortunate reality that business dictates certain things. And in a product as complex, with as many features that IDEA has, at some point the decision has to be made to release the product, knowing that it is not perfect. When making the decision as to when that point is, the question becomes how severe those known problems are, how many people they affect, etc. We could debate the issue of "when to release" for many months. There are many schools of thoughts on the subject. As I am sure you are aware, within the Software Engineering industry, there are entire treatises on the subject. It is not an easy question to answer. If you feel JetBrains is reaching that decision too early, then you should express that to them. However, the effectiveness of that message is strongly tied to how much vinegar versus how much honey you use. (See the next point below for a continuing discussion.)

Not making noise from the customer/user side usually
means to developers
(not limited to IDEA) either the customer/user does
not care any more about
this issue or (s)he is already gone (to another
product).

Agreed. My point was not that some sort of communication shouldn't occur; but rather what the "style" of that communication should be. In my experience, both as a customer and as one that provides customer service, courteous input has much better results than "making noise". And sometimes the line that divides those two styles is very thin and subtle, especially in a written forum like this.

Please understand, my original post was meant to be some friendly input. Ultimately, you need to do what you feel is best. But you should look at things and ask yourself "how is this working for me?"

0

Agreed. My point was not that some sort of communication shouldn't occur;
but rather what the "style" of that communication should be.


A couple of years ago there was the so-called "Team Jetbrains" founded. It
died because of a completely lack of communication - monologues usually are
not treated as "communication".

Please understand, my original post was meant to be some friendly input.


I think, I understood you correctly. I'll try it: Where should I sent the
donuts to - St. Peterburg or Praha?

0

>> Agreed. My point was not that some sort of communication shouldn't occur;
>> but rather what the "style" of that communication should be.


A couple of years ago there was the so-called "Team Jetbrains" founded. It
died because of a completely lack of communication - monologues usually
are not treated as "communication".


You might have guessed it, I'm one of these early enthusiasts. I know a
couple of people who use Eclipse or other Netbeans and usually there occurs
a discussion about advantages/disadvantages of the IDEs. In the last couple
of months it became much harder for me to convince people to try IDEA,
because the others become increasingly better, but also because of my
increasingly problems with IDEA. I know, that in Eclipse also years-old bugs
still are not fixed, but should we match with the mediocre?

I want to use IDEA, I want to have fun with it, I want to wholehearted
recommend it, I want to purchase my update this month!

Tom

0

Hello Tom,

Well, my personal feeling is that we (me, Max and a few others) have wasted
too much time looking over the same list of issues again and again, while
this time should much better be spent looking at other issues submitted by
other users. But it's Sunday today, which means that I'm spending my own
personal time rather than the company time, and I hope that a detailed status
report for each of the issues will help end the nagging. The executive summary
is that in the entire list there's only a single issue which is really worth
fixing in 7.0.x, and it happens to be one for which we have no idea why it
happens or what can be done to avoid the problem.

>> http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-21378
>>

Still open.


This behavior change was made by design, and you can see in the discussion
that some users agree with the change. Asking for a new option doesn't count
as a bugfix.

>> http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEA-15446

That's the only important issue that I was talking about above.

>> http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEADEV-21693

Still open.


As you can see, this issue is marked as "Priority: Minor" and "Planned for:
Diana Final". It's essentially similar to IDEADEV-22059, and the same concerns
apply to it.

Three open issues, only one of which is a bug of some importance. Six posts
nagging for fixes, not counting the related discussion. Is that really worthy
of so much noise?

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Development Lead
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


0

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