Long awaited Demetra roadmap
can be found at http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Demetra+Roadmap
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Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"
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Hmm, well, I guess you'd need to re-implement the editor sooner or
later... maybe not for Demetra, but its only a question of time until
other IDEs will offer "rich text" editing within their editors...
Finally, I've (also) always wished for such a "rich text" editor - which
would also mean implementing a WYSIWYG HTML/JavaDoc editor for
completeness - my main need was, however, having complex/long JavaDoc
comments available formatted (e.g. lists, tables etc.) b/c "deciphering"
e.g. an HTML table can often be bothering (no problem with or or alike if the comment is formatted properly); currently, I use the "Quick JavaDoc" as a workaround (though not sure "how much" HTML (or which tags exactly) it formats, sometimes having to resort to the external JavaDoc). BTW: I always missed one sort of JavaDoc alignment in IDEA, like: ]]>
/**
@param someArgument Does this or that\n
but JavaDoc won't align
*
@return someValue This formatting is also\n
often used where I work.
*/
</javadoc>
i.e. "align JavaDoc" but IDEA currently aligns params etc., not the
description itself like above.
It would also be nice to not choose one of the above but have both
selectively available (e.g. when doing "\n" on first line, jump to the
beginning of text after JavaDoc tag, on "tab" align with second word);
another possibility would be something like "Use alignment #1, use #2 if
first word is longer than XXX".
I wonder that IDEA doesn't offer this (or did I miss something?).
Should be easy to add (?)
kind regards,
Messi
Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) wrote:
>> Hello Maxim,
>>
>> What about Resharper IDE-style JavaDoc?
>> http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/download/attachments/13060/resharp
>> er20.jpg
I would settle for resizable javadoc windows (that remember their positions of course),
quick javadoc that works in the "Override methods" popup and javadoc windows that are not
clipped on the parent popup...
Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) wrote:
$50 per month is completely out of the question for most college students, and
many open-source developers are college students.
Dirk Dittert wrote:
>>I think it will be very important for many Eclipse users, for JB to
>>provide hosting for these servers. It's hard to find a web host that even
>>has Java, let alone a host that would let you set up your own server.
Maxim, you don't see value in a richer development experience, with real method
separators and folding regions? I think it's the next step in editors. I think
IDEA's automated refactoring has brought along a revolution because now code is
not merely text, but a graph which can be manipulated as such. I think it's only
half way there, however, because right now the code is only such an abstract
graph to the IDE, and not to the user. I think a well-thought-out visual editor
could improve programming experience in serious ways. What do you think of this
idea? Do you see no merit in the idea, or is it more about the team's lack of
developers and time to implement such an idea?
Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) wrote:
>> Hello Maxim,
>>
>> What about Resharper IDE-style JavaDoc?
>> http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/download/attachments/13060/resharp
>> er20.jpg
Messi wrote:
This is issue http://jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEABKL-1299. You can vote for it
there.
Hello Keith,
It seems you're mixing too many things in one. What I said is I feel embedded
WYSIWIG javadoc editing value compared to implementation cost is not that
big. On the other hand I remember VisualAge from IBM project, which had an
attempt to hide text editing fact from developer and people rarely felt being
more productive or comfortable that way.
Well, that's probably true but the whole statement is so broad and far from
real things we can guess if they're good or bad.
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Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"
Hello Michael,
MR> Thanks Robert,
MR>
MR> but Spring is a little oversized for me - I don't use J2EE. I guess
MR> I'm not the typical IDEA user ...
MR>
There is nothing oversized about Spring framework, which tells me you didn't
really look at it. You can get base Spring jar, with no dependencies, and
just add AOP. All the jar will give you is the spring facilities for IoC
and DI, plus adding AOP later will let you do only that.
Spring Framework, though it does have an MVC later, has nothing to do with
being ONLY J2EE.
R
Hello Robert,
I have read a lot about the Spring framework and the AOP module in
particular, and it looks interesting. But although the AOP functionality
can be used in standalone applications without the Spring IoC container,
it seems to have been designed primarily for the use in (ej)beans. Or to
put it another way: If you only use the AOP API, it is really cumbersome.
But thanks for reminding me about Spring's AOP capabilities ... of
course there are some pure Java AOP solutions, which can be used with IDEA.
Mike
I second that. Spring is absolutely amazing. I am currently using it to
build a large web platform that supports multiple connections to outside
systems, hosts multiple domains (different content/functionality presented
depending on domain used to access server).
It is damn sweet. I am looking forward to the Spring Conference in December
down in FL :) I'll be there!
--Grant
"Robert Sfeir" <nomail@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:8057221c360df8c7bcabf01c3dfa@news.jetbrains.com...
>
>
>
>
This seems quite reasonable to me. Why not this approach?
"I do like the central server approach: will it work safely when using across the Internet (for those outwith an in-house intranet-based development team)?"
This is a very important question to me as well. If it is intranet only I would not be able to use it.
Hello Kirk,
KW> "I do like the central server approach: will it work safely when
KW> using across the Internet (for those outwith an in-house
KW> intranet-based development team)?"
KW>
KW> This is a very important question to me as well. If it is intranet
KW> only I would not be able to use it.
The answer to this depends on what you mean by "safely". The build server
will need to check out code from the version control system - there are different
ways of securing that depending on the VCS you use. Other than that, HTTP
is used for communication between the build server, the agents and the clients.
Is it enough from your point of view to encrypt it with HTTPS, or do you
have some other requirements in mind?
--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"
I think something along the lines of basic HTTP authentication with or without HTTPS would be sufficient, or if you're going to implement it as a plug-in for Apache HTTPD or whatever, you can do as Subversion does and take advantage of a wide variety of security choices.
Intranet users should of course be able to use it unsecured and without installing extra products (like Apache+plug-ins) in order for it to work out of the box), if they so choose.
Those using it over the Internet would be foolish not to use HTTPS with some reasonable authentication scheme.
In article <dlt43s$rpp$1@is.intellij.net>, mlriess@gmx.de says...
This simply isn't true. I've been using Spring for over a year and we
don't use any ejbs. In fact, I would say that you can easily get by
using just the AOP still.
How is is cumbersome?
--
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David H. McCoy
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I just got around to looking at Demetra Roadmap, and I'm
not very happy with the direction Jetbrains is taking.
Much too much focus on this Team Suport features, and not enough
focus on core editing, formatting, refactoring, navigation for
java and other languages.
I'm definately biased against adding Teamware features because
my team uses Ant to build and deploy our product, and we use
Jira/Confluence for project management. The engineers use a mix
of IntelliJ and Eclipse. Even if Jetbrains implemented all the
teamware stuff on this list, I doubt we would use any of it.
Even if every engineer used IntelliJ, we might use some of the
collaboration stuff, but no way we would replace Ant / Jira /
Confluence with Jetbrains equivalents. I guess a small team
of a company which uses IntelliJ exclusively that is starting
a new project might be more interested.
Most of the teamware stuff sounded like a separate product,
e.g. IntelliJ Server. If you are really serious about that,
I would have a separate team working ont that and make it so
that it works (to some level) even without IntelliJ. The goal
should be to compete head to head with Jira/Confluence,
CruiseControl, Maven, Anthill, etc.
I don't like to see IntelliJ's already stretched engineering
team focused on all these teamware, collaboration @#$%.
I want IntelliJ team to remain focused on improving editing,
refactoring, formatting and related tasks like vcs integration,
debugging.
I would rather see all the Teamware stuff gone, and see
features similar to what http://www.sixthandredriver.com/
is doing: more java refactorings, javascript inspection ,etc..
Demetra made a vague mention at the end:
"Miscellaneous Javascript, Html, JSP, CSS improvements."
LIKES
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++Extract method refactoring enhancements
++Version control integration usability enhancements
+Inplace rename refactoring for local variables
+Background update from the VCS
+Better support for JSP fragments included into other pages
+Miscellaneous Javascript, Html, JSP, CSS improvements.
(Dont' know what that means, but hopefully it means fixing the
100s of JIRA bugs and enhancements filed on the new 5.0 features).
LIKE BUT WON'T MAKE ME BUY THE PRODUCT (Unless Simple Monster
or someone else makes use of them to create a must have plugin)
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+Code completion API
~Embedded languages API: XML tag contents and attributes, java string literals
+Global Inpsection API
DISLIKES
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-Searchable options dialogs
-Floating editor tab groups
These UI changes seem kind of pointless.
-Custom inspections and intentions based on structural search and
replace templates.
@#$% I find structural search (&replace) to already be very
frustrating to use. Unless you can make it easier, I see no point
in adding to this feature; This would mainly be used for internal
use to make it easier for Jetbrains to crank out new inspections.
--Build and Continuous Integration Server
(See above)
~Collaboration. Ok, I really just want to be able to copy and
paste stack traces into IDEA.
(See above)
-Server-side code analysis. Hmm... I would make a bunch of other
improvements to Inspection GUI before doing this.
-- Project portal.
(See above)
DONT CARE
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~Code Coverage Integration (performance impact?)
~Incremental test run. Re-run only tests that execute changed
code. (performance impact?)
~ Project wide error highlighting (to be displaye in project
view). OK, but what performance impact? Having IDEA parse a
single file is bad enough. If it is parsing through a whole
package in the background, that drag on performance.
IntelliJ uses 2 GB of memory and then blows up if I try to
inspect my entire project.
~UI Designer. I do heavy Swing development but everything
is handcoded w/ heavy use reusable components. Also, most of our
dialogs are dynamically generated so a static UI designer isn't
any help. But if I needed it, I would use JFormDesigner instead
http://www.jformdesigner.com/
+JSF Configuration Authoring Support
-Visual JSF/JSP/HTML Designer
~JSF-Oriented CodeInsight Features
Better support for JSF (and other language with specialt tags)
would be appreciated. But I don't think you should spend huge
effort on a visual designer, etc.
+I would rather see all the Teamware stuff gone, and see
features similar to what http://www.sixthandredriver.com/
is doing: more java refactorings, javascript inspection ,etc...+
We're glad you like what we're doing, and we hope to do more. In some ways, Sixth and Red River Software is looking to rekindle the spirit of "IntelliJ classic", with an emphasis on refactorings, small but shockingly powerful tool extensions, and release cycles that are quick, small, and (very) cheap. That said, we have high hopes for the team-ware portions of Demetra, and may very well release plugins that leverage and extend them. Don't sell those St. Petersburg guys short. They'll always surprise you.
Sixth and Red River Software
"Code with Grace and Verve"
Keith Lea <keith@cs.oswego.edu> wrote:
Actually, I was wrong. A virtual server is EUR 5/month and up. The more
you pay, the better it gets for you...
Best,
Dirk Dittert
Hello alex,
No way we're going to compete against JIRA, Confluenece, ANT or whatever.
Istead, we're going to wrap them all into single integrated environment to
developer's pleasure. BTW you didn't mentioned any continuous integration.
Do you have one?
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Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"
After all, that's how JetBrains started, too... Way to go, SRRS!
Vince.