Annoyance about what is being fixed

It's not my place to tell JetBrains what to fix and when to fix it,
still I am deeply disturbed that it seems like code formatting issues
are taking precedence to functionality (which is badly broken) like the
subversion plugin.

R

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well, code formatting breaks valid code in some cases in the last build, so...

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Robert,
I don't want to sound impolite, but loosening our freedom to the extent when
we cannot choose what to fix first, makes me seriously think of leaving IDEA
team.
I know, it is always the case when developing something people really need,
but I still think you ask too much.

Friendly,
Eugene.

"Robert S. Sfeir" <robert@codepuccinoNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:robert-6279F3.14583320042005@mail.intellij.net...

It's not my place to tell JetBrains what to fix and when to fix it,
still I am deeply disturbed that it seems like code formatting issues
are taking precedence to functionality (which is badly broken) like the
subversion plugin.

>

R



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It's not my place to tell JetBrains what to fix and
when to fix it,
still I am deeply disturbed that it seems like code
formatting issues
are taking precedence to functionality (which is
badly broken) like the
subversion plugin.


If you ask me, I do care more about the (dozens of) formatter issues than the subversion plugin. I can use SmartSVN or Tortoise while the plugin is broken, and I'm losing very little productivity. Code formatting issues, on the other hand, makes me crawl.

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In article <d46b0b$fc4$1@is.intellij.net>,
"Eugene Vigdorchik \(JetBrains\)" <ven@jetbrains.com> wrote:

Robert,
I don't want to sound impolite, but loosening our freedom to the extent when
we cannot choose what to fix first, makes me seriously think of leaving IDEA
team.
I know, it is always the case when developing something people really need,
but I still think you ask too much.


This is the first request I make in a long long time, and considering
the bug I reported destroyed my repository... and I didn't complain
loudly about it (not kicking and screaming anyway) just pointed it out
as something of importance, I don't think I'm asking too much... but you
can feel how you feel.


Thanks
R

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If you ask me, I do care more about the (dozens of) formatter issues than the
subversion plugin. I can use SmartSVN or Tortoise while the plugin is broken,
and I'm losing very little productivity. Code formatting issues, on the other
hand, makes me crawl.


I'm using the command line svn of course. I guess people care about the
formatting more. My mistake for opening my trap. Hope no one else
steps on that bug... cuz the last time I checked the code formatting was
not causing repository hosing... and a simple ctrl + z gets the code
back the way it was... but hey... wth do I know.

R

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Marcus Brito wrote:

If you ask me, I do care more about the (dozens of) formatter issues than the subversion plugin. I can use SmartSVN or Tortoise while the plugin is broken, and I'm losing very little productivity. Code formatting issues, on the other hand, makes me crawl.


Yup, that's pretty much what I wanted to say. Not that I don't
commiserate with Robert, but editor issues come first since there's
always external version control.

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://www.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: (416) 933-5046 | Fax: (416) 933-5001

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Let's all remember that the development team sees things we, as
outsiders, can't always see. Constraints such as personnel changes,
budgets, team member holidays, knowledge centers in the team, etc -
these all influence the prioritization of tasks and the work plan at large.

So, Robert - I wouldn't go as far as asking for influence on such
matters - lets leave it for the dev team. Don't forget you are using an
EAP - which comes with no responsibility and provided to you on a
"use-at-your-own-risk" basis.

Eugene - please stay at the team - we need you! ;)
IDEA dev team - keep up the good work!

(and no - I don't work for JetBrains!)

cheers,
Arik.

Robert S. Sfeir wrote:

In article <d46b0b$fc4$1@is.intellij.net>,
"Eugene Vigdorchik \(JetBrains\)" <ven@jetbrains.com> wrote:

>>Robert,
>>I don't want to sound impolite, but loosening our freedom to the extent when
>>we cannot choose what to fix first, makes me seriously think of leaving IDEA
>>team.
>>I know, it is always the case when developing something people really need,
>>but I still think you ask too much.


This is the first request I make in a long long time, and considering
the bug I reported destroyed my repository... and I didn't complain
loudly about it (not kicking and screaming anyway) just pointed it out
as something of importance, I don't think I'm asking too much... but you
can feel how you feel.


Thanks
R

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Robert S. Sfeir wrote:

This is the first request I make in a long long time, and considering
the bug I reported destroyed my repository... and I didn't complain
loudly about it (not kicking and screaming anyway) just pointed it out
as something of importance, I don't think I'm asking too much... but you
can feel how you feel.


One thing in this instance however, the destruction of the repository IS
a major thing, and it seems as thou theres been no commentary on that
behaviour from any of the JB folk in the groups.

It would be good to get some commentary at least on the subject.

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In article <d46e9a$ue5$1@is.intellij.net>,
Mark Derricutt <mark@talios.com> wrote:

Robert S. Sfeir wrote:

This is the first request I make in a long long time, and considering
the bug I reported destroyed my repository... and I didn't complain
loudly about it (not kicking and screaming anyway) just pointed it out
as something of importance, I don't think I'm asking too much... but you
can feel how you feel.


One thing in this instance however, the destruction of the repository IS
a major thing, and it seems as thou theres been no commentary on that
behaviour from any of the JB folk in the groups.

It would be good to get some commentary at least on the subject.


you think? :)

again, I know it's eap, and I am NOT complaining that the plugin hose my
repo, I had a backup, but you know what, some other poor soul WILL hit
that bug again, and though they're supposed to have a backup, they won't.

That said, there is no way I am putting any further tests into the
subversion plugin, so their loss.

R

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Eugene Eugene Eugene, how many times do I have to tell you guys? The only thing that hurts IDEA is listening to the damn users, who keep proving time and time again that they're shortsighted, selfish, and on the whole astoundingly clueless about what makes a good product!

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I know you're probably sort of joking Hani, but I think attention to user
input along with brilliant dev team is what makes IDEA as cool as it is.
I'm not into complaining about EAPs, but I do think that user input should
be listened to.

Eugene Eugene Eugene, how many times do I have to tell you guys? The
only thing that hurts IDEA is listening to the damn users, who keep
proving time and time again that they're shortsighted, selfish, and on
the whole astoundingly clueless about what makes a good product!




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In article <robert-19EDE8.16051820042005@mail.intellij.net>,
"Robert S. Sfeir" <robert@codepuccinoNOSPAM.com> wrote:

If you ask me, I do care more about the (dozens of) formatter issues than
the
subversion plugin. I can use SmartSVN or Tortoise while the plugin is
broken,
and I'm losing very little productivity. Code formatting issues, on the
other
hand, makes me crawl.


I'm using the command line svn of course. I guess people care about the
formatting more. My mistake for opening my trap. Hope no one else
steps on that bug... cuz the last time I checked the code formatting was
not causing repository hosing... and a simple ctrl + z gets the code
back the way it was... but hey... wth do I know.


Gotta admit - anything that kills a repository is seriously bad news.
Enough to get an IDE banned at one of my clients. (Of course, that
client also would not allow people to use a beta IDE anyway, so I
suppose it balances.)

Still, svn is a showstopper for a surprising number of people I work
with.

Take it for what you paid for it...

Scott

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I'm sure both Subversion users will get their bugs fixed any time now. Suppose features and functions that everybody uses deserves a higher priority, no?

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Patrik Andersson wrote:

I'm sure both Subversion users will get their bugs fixed any time now.


What do you mean with "both Subversion users"?
I use subversion too - so we are at least "three" - the whole
jakarta-commons respository and others (lucene, ...) are already
converted to svn so I bet there are much more than three subversion
users out there today.

Due to the problems with IDEA I use eSvn as client currently - but I
really miss a working SVN integration in IDEA.

---
Mario

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yes, the damn users (excluding Hani of course ;)

EAP users offer their developer time for testing new IDEA versions. If a bug occurs, they write bug reports, eating up more time.

A simple message from jetbrians would surely be enough, e.g. saying "Hold on, we're working on it" or "problem will be adressed but because of xyz it will take >n weeks".

-> bug reporter will find some workaround, or even go back to stable IDEA version, and wait patiently.

Not?

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Scott Ellsworth wrote:

Still, svn is a showstopper for a surprising number of people I work
with.


Do you mean that lack of support for svn in an IDE is a showstopper or
the use of svn on a project is a showstopper?

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://www.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: (416) 933-5046 | Fax: (416) 933-5001

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In article <d48glf$jop$1@is.intellij.net>,
Gordon Tyler <gordon.tyler@quest.com> wrote:

Scott Ellsworth wrote:

Still, svn is a showstopper for a surprising number of people I work
with.


Do you mean that lack of support for svn in an IDE is a showstopper or
the use of svn on a project is a showstopper?


rofl...


Ciao,
Gordon

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Robert S. Sfeir wrote:

Gordon Tyler <gordon.tyler@quest.com> wrote:

>>Scott Ellsworth wrote:
>>
>>>Still, svn is a showstopper for a surprising number of people I work
>>>with.
>>
>>Do you mean that lack of support for svn in an IDE is a showstopper or
>>the use of svn on a project is a showstopper?


rofl...


Considering the attitude of some people towards svn, it was a rather
ambiguous statement ;)

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://www.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: (416) 933-5046 | Fax: (416) 933-5001

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In article <d48glf$jop$1@is.intellij.net>,
Gordon Tyler <gordon.tyler@quest.com> wrote:

Scott Ellsworth wrote:

Still, svn is a showstopper for a surprising number of people I work
with.


Do you mean that lack of support for svn in an IDE is a showstopper or
the use of svn on a project is a showstopper?


Lack of support for svn in an IDE. They have moved their core
repository to it, and GUI support matters. For some, that GUI is
TortiseSVN, and for them, support in the IDE does not matter. For
others on the team, support in the IDE does matter.

On the other hand, they do understand what beta or EAP means, so IDEA
would not get many brickbats for how the EAP behaves. They would get
brickbats based on released versions, and might well decide whether or
not to schedule it for a review after release based on that EAP.

Scott

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