Intellij Idea consequently loses its advantage over Eclipse
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In article <c8llm6$kuh$1@is.intellij.net>,
"Michal Szklanowski" <szklanowski@nospam.aster.pl> wrote:
If you think that people are using Eclipse just because of the marketing
power, then you need to try Eclipse again. Further, I suspect that you
are not properly crediting the very competent people involved with the
Eclipse project. The JetBrainers are good, but so are the Eclipse
people, which is why they both are advancing. I like that, as it means
that different ways of doing things get out in the world, and we can see
which ones work well over the long term.
I use IDEA in preference to Eclipse, as I find IDEA a better environment
for me, but I have clients that choose the other way, and they were
not wrong. Their needs differed.
If we believe that IDEA is better, then we should articulate specific
things that are better about it, and things that someone else has beaten
IDEA on. I, for example, like the new class dialogs in Eclipse, but
they are philosophically opposed to the way IDEA is designed. (They are
option heavy, one stop shops. IDEA does not work that way.)
Eclipse had built in unit test generation a year and change ago. I have
gotten used to the corresponding IDEA plugins, and find them equal
usable, but that is fairly recent. I still like the Eclipse new test
case dialog better, but again, it is probably heavier weight than most
IDEA users would like.
I have found debugging into a test case extremely valuable, and IDEA
does it very well. I hope that Eclipse puts in the sweat to get that to
work.
Dave Griffith's Metrics Reloaded plugin gives IDEA the edge, but for
over a year, the Metrics plugin for Eclipse was way ahead.
My point is that Eclipse has, in the past, offered capabilities that
IDEA did not, and if you needed those capabilities, then you used
Eclipse. Recent developments have addressed many of those capabilities,
and I am very happy about it.
The world is bigger than Eclipse and IDEA, and some ideas should be
brought in from outside. Frankly, if a powerful refactoring IDE
appeared that used a multiple window approach, I would probably switch
to it in a heartbeat. Both Eclipse and IDE take up way too much screen
real estate with toolbars, side bars, project lists, and the like,
leaving only a small amount of code visible. Eclipse has a "make panel
fill the Eclipse window" hotkey, but a real multiwindow editor would be
far superior. We still need these sidebars/toolbars/etc, but I would
hang them in a main window, with editor windows for each of my open
source files. Not everyone likes this, but it fits my tastes.
Another potential reason to use Eclipse - its behavior on your platform
or architecture. I use MacOS X on a new AlBook/1.5. Whichever IDE
works better on that platform is the better IDE for my work - two years
ago, IDEA was too slow to use, while Eclipse was merely pokey. They
both have sped up a lot.
Right now, IDEA's Swing-based implementation seems better than Eclipse's
SWT implementation. This could change, especially since there is a full
time Mac Integration person working on Eclipse. To keep up, either the
JB guys need the same, or they need to use Apple's bug reporting system
to get Apple to fix bugs that impact them.
In summary, Eclipse's success is not just based on marketing. The
Eclipse and the JB teams have different priorities and different feature
weightings. To keep IDEA relevant for each of us, we have to provide
feedback to JB about what matters to us, and what features we feel other
people have done well.
So: my wishlist: Provide a list of Apple bug numbers for which you are
awaiting workarounds, especially anything horking up the screen menu
bar. Speed optimize where you can, as it is still a bit draggy, though
far better than it was. Provide seperate windows for each source file
editor that are free of most of the toolbar stuff. Provide a way to
turn off an inspection warning in a single line of code using an
appropriate comment. Make heavier weight but more complete new class
and new test dialogs.
Scott
> So: my wishlist: Provide a list of Apple bug numbers
> for which you are
> awaiting workarounds, especially anything horking up
> the screen menu
> bar. Speed optimize where you can, as it is still a
> bit draggy, though
> far better than it was. Provide seperate windows for
> each source file
I would really like this as well. I would also like to be able to arbitrarily group windows together as tabs... like in eclipse (although they certainly did not invent this idea)
> editor that are free of most of the toolbar stuff.
> Provide a way to
> turn off an inspection warning in a single line of
> code using an
> appropriate comment.
That's very interesting... I just turned on all warning yesterday to start filtering out issues. But I find that there are some warning I just don't want and others I would like to be ignored for within a specific class... not ignored all the time. It's sort of like pressing "ignore all" in a spell checker... "yeah, I know this is spelt wrong, but in this document, I expressly want it that way!" :)
If I can recommend something... we should move these features to individual threads... so that JB people can clearly see them... and so that discussions can be focused on single issues. The JetBrainers can not be expected to read through these long-winded debates to figure out what we want in the app.
Florian
Hello. Me, a reasonable Java developer (ever used Kaffe, JBuilder, Visual Age for Java, JDeveloper, and finally IDEA) tried Eclipse3.0M9 for a whole day to set up a project i'm current working on. I failed.
The main problem I met:
1. Confusing Included/Exclued in project src dir. ( resolved by only using exclued)
2. Sometimes it says some classes are "unresolved". but the classes are actually in the same package with the class refering to it.
3. Run Ant target is painful.
4. It generate different serialVersionUID from what sun's JDK generates. So my rmi client program can not talk with our server program. (even I select the same compilance level in Javaa->complier settings).
5. and many more...
This is my real experience. Note I do hope Eclipse get better and better, though.
I have simular experience with Eclipse: mostly when I tried
it, I failed to even setup the project in a reasonable time,
and once you manage this the ant targets or run configurations are a pain.
Sure, to a part I'm MUCH quicker with such tasks with IDEA because I know IDEA more well then Eclipse...
Eclipse vs. IDEA is a rivalry that probably is good for both, since each one has to do its best to come up with
the better features ;)
Still it is undoubted that IDEA has more killer features,
"feels better" , whatever - but FOR SURE Jetbrains can
never rest on it's laurels !!
One simple thing that struck me with Eclipse: in the
"outline" view of ant build files you see nodes also
for properties or defined pathes -> VERY USEFUL and
lacking in IDEA...
So Jetbrains, keep up the good work und keep on putting
more jetbrainpower into IDEA :)
Cheers,
Michael
"Florian Hehlen" <florian.hehlen@ubsw.com> wrote in message
news:4575225.1085471060338.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
>
arbitrarily group windows together as tabs... like in eclipse (although they
certainly did not invent this idea)
Optionally popping up separate windows for each editor tab would be useful
at times. Especially when you want to see three or four files
simultaneously.
Tab groups are currently supported. Only two however.
>
>
filtering out issues. But I find that there are some warning I just don't
want and others I would like to be ignored for within a specific class...
not ignored all the time. It's sort of like pressing "ignore all" in a spell
checker... "yeah, I know this is spelt wrong, but in this document, I
expressly want it that way!" :)
>
There are at least three tracker requests for this already.
Tim
Please make that a feature request as noted earlier in this thread. Only thru those the JetBrains guys (who do amazing work btw) will get to know.