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Amnon I. Govrin wrote:

Hi.

I know there was a request for automatic gutter width, but is anyone else is
annoyed by the editor jumping around because of that?

Anyway, if you have a minute...
http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=13676

Thanks,
Amnon I. Govrin


I hate this behaviour. This is very annoying.

Regards,
Vladimir Kondratyev
_____________________
JetBrains

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I hate this behaviour. This is very annoying.


I hate it too, I prefered when the gutter had a fixed width !

Guillaume Laforge


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>> I hate this behaviour. This is very annoying.
>
>I hate it too, I prefered when the gutter had a fixed width !

A small fixed width.

Tom

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>I hate it too, I prefered when the gutter had a
fixed width !

A small fixed width.


Which could be quite a challenge considering the amount of information stored in one gutter line (see first attachment). My suggestion would be to represent the different types of information by different aspects: The implements/overrides icons could be somehow merged into one icon; the breakpoints could be marked by background colors (red for enabled, green for disabled), and the bookmarks could be highlighted by a black border (see suggestion in second attachment).

In any case, I too would welcome a small fixed-width gutter.

Regards,
Jens



Attachment(s):
ideaGutter.jpg
gutterSuggestion.jpg
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Maybe what we need is a more compact way to display all this gutter
information? How about a single icon indicating that there is something
(could be anything) attached to that line, which expands out to show all the
attachments while the cursor is over it? I'm thinking of something similar
to the popup that displays while the cursor is over a folded section of
code. I'm not sure how usable this would be though - any opinions?

Vil.

Jens Voss wrote:

>>>I hate it too, I prefered when the gutter had a
>>
>>fixed width !
>>
>>A small fixed width.


Which could be quite a challenge considering the amount of information stored in one gutter line (see first attachment). My suggestion would be to represent the different types of information by different aspects: The implements/overrides icons could be somehow merged into one icon; the breakpoints could be marked by background colors (red for enabled, green for disabled), and the bookmarks could be highlighted by a black border (see suggestion in second attachment).

In any case, I too would welcome a small fixed-width gutter.

Regards,
Jens


--
Vilya Harvey, Consultant
vilya.harvey@digitalsteps.com / digital steps /
(W) +44 (0)1483 469 480
(M) +44 (0)7816 678 457 http://www.digitalsteps.com/

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A small fixed width.


Especially since there tend to be more and more stuff in the gutter.
That's the problem.

Guillaume


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For the current-execution-point information I would like IDEA to
highlight the expression, that would be executed next. This would even
allow to step into difficulter expressions like this:

getObj().doSomething(getSomethingElse());

Instead of highlighting the full line, it would highlight following
( = highlight):

.doSomething(getSomethingElse());
]]>
getObj().doSomething();
]]>
;

Tom

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I like Netbeans' solution.

Having stuff jumping about is just too distracting.

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Thomas Singer wrote:

For the current-execution-point information I would like IDEA to
highlight the expression, that would be executed next. This would even
allow to step into difficulter expressions like this:

getObj().doSomething(getSomethingElse());

Instead of highlighting the full line, it would highlight following
( = highlight):

.doSomething(getSomethingElse());
<F7>
getObj().doSomething();
<F7>
;

Tom

This would be really helpful, especially if you don't want to go inside
getSomethingElse() method!!! Is there a RFE in the tracker already? I'd
like to vote for it.



/kesh

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>This would be really helpful, especially if you don't want to go inside
>getSomethingElse() method!!! Is there a RFE in the tracker already? I'd
>like to vote for it.

See http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=12126 .

Tom

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I wouldn't like that. The whole purpose of the gutter icons is to show
things without the user having to do anything. Having to go over there to
discover what's hidden behind the generic icon would render the gutter
indications useless. I'd hate to have to go over the icon for 10 methods
just to see it they override something or if they are overridden or if
that's just a bookmark I placed earlier.

My 2c,
Andrei

"Vilya Harvey" <vilya.harvey@digitalsteps.com> wrote in message
news:bdbp91$hio$1@is.intellij.net...

Maybe what we need is a more compact way to display all this gutter
information? How about a single icon indicating that there is something
(could be anything) attached to that line, which expands out to show all

the

attachments while the cursor is over it? I'm thinking of something similar
to the popup that displays while the cursor is over a folded section of
code. I'm not sure how usable this would be though - any opinions?



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I totally agree. A generic icon on each tenth line telling me 'here is something special' renders the whole gutter concept useless. The power of the icons lies in having all important information at a glance.

I admit that the gutter becomes somewhat oversized when having all possible icons on the same line. But this is a very rare case, and therefore the current solution is not that bad.

The only thing I feel uncomfortable about is that the icons aren't aligned vertically but always left aligned in the gutter. I would prefer to have e.g. all overridden icons one below the other. But that's another issue.

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>A generic icon on each tenth line telling me 'here is something special' renders the whole gutter concept useless.

Did you take a look at Netbeans' solution (URL mentioned in this
thread)?

Tom

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Yes, I flickered over it (I will read it thoroughly later, it sounds interesting).

But at first glance I don't see any alternative solution with the same power as the IDEA solution. Either the information is hidden behind a generic icon which doesn't have any specific meaning (figure 2). Or the additional information is visible but not clickable (figure 6).

Despite the fact that me too I don't like the dynamic gutter very much, the solution with all icons lined up in the gutter (figure 5) is still my favorite.

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"Jens Voss" <jens@voss-ahrensburg.de> wrote in message
news:17238530.1056530878204.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

>I hate it too, I prefered when the gutter had a
fixed width !

>

A small fixed width.

>

Which could be quite a challenge considering the amount of information
stored in one gutter line (see first attachment).


The override and implement icons don't need to be on the same line as the
method name. They could be positioned on the line closest to the method name
line that isn't already occupied by a breakpoint or bookmark icon. (And they
don't need to be on the same line as each other.)



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What would you do for one-line methods? Or folded methods?

"Erik Hanson" <ehanson@comsys.com> wrote in message
news:bdcjo4$5ce$1@is.intellij.net...

"Jens Voss" <jens@voss-ahrensburg.de> wrote in message
news:17238530.1056530878204.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

>I hate it too, I prefered when the gutter had a
fixed width !

>

A small fixed width.

>

Which could be quite a challenge considering the amount of information
stored in one gutter line (see first attachment).

>

The override and implement icons don't need to be on the same line as the
method name. They could be positioned on the line closest to the method

name

line that isn't already occupied by a breakpoint or bookmark icon. (And

they

don't need to be on the same line as each other.)

>
>
>


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"Brad Lane" <_no_spam_brad.lane@pearson.com> wrote in message
news:bdcn9m$he0$1@is.intellij.net...

"Erik Hanson" <ehanson@comsys.com> wrote in message
news:bdcjo4$5ce$1@is.intellij.net...

"Jens Voss" <jens@voss-ahrensburg.de> wrote in message
news:17238530.1056530878204.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

>I hate it too, I prefered when the gutter had a
fixed width !

>

A small fixed width.

>

Which could be quite a challenge considering the amount of information
stored in one gutter line (see first attachment).

>

The override and implement icons don't need to be on the same line as

the

method name. They could be positioned on the line closest to the method

name

line that isn't already occupied by a breakpoint or bookmark icon. (And

they

don't need to be on the same line as each other.)

>

What would you do for one-line methods? Or folded methods?


Folded methods, at least with my settings, are two lines long: the first
line is the name of the method and the second line is "{ ... }". So I guess
you could fit all four icons on two lines if the gutter was always two icons
wide.

But one-line methods are a problem for which I cannot think of a solution.


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Hi Gentlemen

"Martin Fuhrer" <mf@fuhrer.com> wrote:

Yes, I flickered over it (I will read it thoroughly later, it sounds

interesting).
>

But at first glance I don't see any alternative solution with the same

power as the IDEA solution. Either the information is hidden behind a
generic icon which doesn't have any specific meaning (figure 2). Or the
additional information is visible but not clickable (figure 6).
>

Despite the fact that me too I don't like the dynamic gutter very much,

the solution with all icons lined up in the gutter (figure 5) is still my
favorite.

What if the gutter has different modes? I.e. imagine you may fold it (and
then it shows only "something here"), or make it show only breakpoints, or
only bookmarks or whatever else (kinda "filtering"), or make it wide and
show everything in a row. And you can use hot keys to switch these modes,
and current mode is indicated say, on the top of the gutter. What do you
think about it?

--
Best regards,
Michael


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That is a great idea.

You could also do stuff like fold away breakpoints unless you are running a debug session.

I have not used Ariadna much, but does it do this (if you can imagine this as the gutter):

or this:

NN = line numbers
O = overrides
I = implements
B = breakpoint

I think it could work really nicely with the folding gutter idea and the aligned glyphs (the second set in my example).

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That's a nice idea. The ability to have a folded mode (which shows just a
"something here" type of icon) and an expanded mode (showing all icons)
might satisfy most of the expressed preferences.

Furthermore, the composed icon might have coloured indications of all the
types of icons it hides (red for breakpoint, black for bookmark,
green for implements, etc.) and might show the preview of the expanded
gutter when hovered (the same way the folded section shows the code it
contains when the mouse is over it).

Having the colours shown in the compact icon would satisfy the need to
"see" at a glance what icons are placed in the gutter area even when the
gutter is folded.

Andrei

What if the gutter has different modes? I.e. imagine you may fold it (and
then it shows only "something here"), or make it show only breakpoints, or
only bookmarks or whatever else (kinda "filtering"), or make it wide and
show everything in a row. And you can use hot keys to switch these modes,
and current mode is indicated say, on the top of the gutter. What do you
think about it?


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"Andrei Oprea" <andrei.oprea@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.06.26.02.25.59.682363@cogeco.ca...

Furthermore, the composed icon might have coloured indications of all the
types of icons it hides (red for breakpoint, black for bookmark,
green for implements, etc.) and might show the preview of the expanded
gutter when hovered (the same way the folded section shows the code it
contains when the mouse is over it).


Remember that something like 7% of men have some sort of color blindness, so
it's generally a good idea to use more than just color to distinguish
different items.

This should be easy in this case, one quarter of the icons we're talking
about would still be distinguishable from each other. (A quarter of the
debug circle, a quarter of the letter "O", a quarter of the letter "I", and
a quarter of a check mark.) Obviously, it would be hard to tell what a
quarter of the letter "O" is supposed to represent if you don't ever see the
full "O", but the quarter will be rare enough that I imagine it wouldn't be
much of an issue.


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Remember that something like 7% of men have some sort of color blindness,

so

it's generally a good idea to use more than just color to distinguish
different items.


Yes, don't make subtle color distinctions.


Much prefer arrows:

up arrow: overrides
down arrow: is overriden
right arrow implements.
left arrow ?

And it has the advantage that arrows can be combined without much loss of
visibility.


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>Much prefer arrows:
>
>up arrow: overrides
>down arrow: is overriden
>right arrow implements.
>left arrow ?
>
>And it has the advantage that arrows can be combined without much loss of
>visibility.

Excellent idea!

Tom

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I really like the suggestion that suggests that gutter icons also be placed in the editor pane. Which should be shown in the gutter and which in the editor pane would be the next question then.

Patrik

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I don't like it at all. From my point of view: either there's a gutter where icons are placed, or there's no gutter and icons are placed elsewhere. But having some "mixed mode" is the worst solution for me.

The really bad part of it: Some icons are happy enough to be located in the gutter and are therefore clickable. But others just didn't make it and drop into the editor pane without being clickable. So on method 1 you can navigate to the parent's method by clicking directly on the icon, but on method 2 (where you happened to set a breakpoint) you have to open the popup to navigate to the parent's method. More inconsistency is almos impossible...

By the way: Netbeans reasoning for this solution - "Since most of code is indented it wouldn't look so messy" - sounds very simplistic to me. What about code which isn't indented? Do we have to accept that it looks messy?

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Playing devil's advocate: why not get rid of the gutter altogether? All the
icons that were previously in the gutter could go inside the editor aligned
to the right-hand edge of the screen. Most code doesn't reach the right hand
edge of the screen (especially if you have a coding standard which limits
your line width), so there would be relatively few cases where the icons
overlapped some text. For the cases where there is some overlap, you could
just scroll to the right to see the text behind the icons. The main problem
would be that you would no longer be able to set a breakpoint by clicking in
the gutter, but that could always be added to the editor's popup menu. What
do you think?

Vil.

Patrik Andersson wrote:

I really like the suggestion that suggests that gutter icons also be placed in the editor pane. Which should be shown in the gutter and which in the editor pane would be the next question then.

Patrik


--
Vilya Harvey, Consultant
vilya.harvey@digitalsteps.com / digital steps /
(W) +44 (0)1483 469 480
(M) +44 (0)7816 678 457 http://www.digitalsteps.com/

Disclaimer

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Well, the only reason against is all those icons will be scrolled away when
scrolling horizontally.

--

Best regards,
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Vilya Harvey" <vilya.harvey@digitalsteps.com> wrote in message
news:bdf9g8$j03$1@is.intellij.net...

Playing devil's advocate: why not get rid of the gutter altogether? All

the

icons that were previously in the gutter could go inside the editor

aligned

to the right-hand edge of the screen. Most code doesn't reach the right

hand

edge of the screen (especially if you have a coding standard which limits
your line width), so there would be relatively few cases where the icons
overlapped some text. For the cases where there is some overlap, you could
just scroll to the right to see the text behind the icons. The main

problem

would be that you would no longer be able to set a breakpoint by clicking

in

the gutter, but that could always be added to the editor's popup menu.

What

do you think?

>

Vil.

>

Patrik Andersson wrote:

I really like the suggestion that suggests that gutter icons also be

placed in the editor pane. Which should be shown in the gutter and which in
the editor pane would be the next question then.

>

Patrik

>

--
Vilya Harvey, Consultant
vilya.harvey@digitalsteps.com / digital steps /
(W) +44 (0)1483 469 480
(M) +44 (0)7816 678 457 http://www.digitalsteps.com/

>

Disclaimer

>

This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential and/or legally
privileged. If you have received this email and you are not a named
addressee, please inform the sender at Digital Steps Ltd by phone on
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Digital Steps Ltd routinely screens for viruses, addressees should
check this email and any attachments for viruses. Digital Steps Ltd
makes no representation or warranty as to the absence of viruses in this
email or any attachments.

>


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I was thinking more of having them float above the editor in that position,
so that they were always visible.

One of the other problems though, would be that in a lot of cases the icons
may be too far away from the end of the text to easily see which line they
belong to. Actually, that probably a pretty good reason against it. Oh
well... :)

Vil.

Maxim Shafirov wrote:

Well, the only reason against is all those icons will be scrolled away when
scrolling horizontally.



--
Vilya Harvey, Consultant
vilya.harvey@digitalsteps.com / digital steps /
(W) +44 (0)1483 469 480
(M) +44 (0)7816 678 457 http://www.digitalsteps.com/

Disclaimer

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Hello Carlos

"Carlos Costa e Silva" <carlos@keysoft.pt> wrote:

...
Much prefer arrows:

>

up arrow: overrides
down arrow: is overriden
right arrow implements.
left arrow ?

>

And it has the advantage that arrows can be combined without much loss of
visibility.


Nice idea, indeed. And these arrows IMHO should be still coloured.

--
Best regards,
Michael


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