Here we go again...915 problems

First....good morning to all. :)

1. I Installed 915 (imported settings from 896)
2. I started 915.
3. Had assertion error on startup.
4. Project settings were not imported.

Going back to 896.


(Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains to do
this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic than this.
Evgeny, you can take it from here...)


28 comments
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Michael Morett wrote:

First....good morning to all. :)

1. I Installed 915 (imported settings from 896)
2. I started 915.
3. Had assertion error on startup.
4. Project settings were not imported.

Going back to 896.


(Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains to do
this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic than this.
Evgeny, you can take it from here...)



For what its worth I also had problems with my project settings. In one
case, all of my source code was no longer visible in the project. I could
create a new project from scratch, but who wants to do that all the time?

Please, please, please: If there is any change to the project files, warn
us that they project files need to be redone. You guys did this really well
when the project roots change was made, but this time I don't recall seeing
anything change.

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As far as I know many people there are using 915 succesfully. So it doesn't
seem to be a common problem and somehow related to your project/ide/machine
config. Having said that it would be extremely helpful if you attach tracker
request IDs to your 3 and 4 points.

Thanks.

--

Best regards,
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bj2kph$lu4$1@is.intellij.net...

First....good morning to all. :)

>

1. I Installed 915 (imported settings from 896)
2. I started 915.
3. Had assertion error on startup.
4. Project settings were not imported.

>

Going back to 896.

>
>

(Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains to do
this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic than

this.

Evgeny, you can take it from here...)

>
>


0
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I can't quite understand how you've decided that this is a general
problem with the build... I think it's pretty obvious from traffic on
here that the problems with this build have been few and far between, so
it's much more likely that your problems are originating from some
'special case' which means it's probably out of the remit of basic
testing.

File a bug with the assertion you found, and please, pretty please, I'm
begging you don't start this pointless thread off all over again.

N.

Michael Morett wrote:

(Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains to do
this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic than this.
Evgeny, you can take it from here...)


0
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I cleared out my cache, I actually deleted the entire .intellijidea directory. When I started idea back up I had to manually open my last project. Once I did that it remembered everything except for the jdk setting. So for me it was pretty painless. Maybe you could try deleting that directory also.

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Michael,
Of course I am not Evgeny, but I think it is not that easy. I did everything
the same as you and it worked like I charm for me. So probably there is some
quirk in your project.

AlexO
"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bj2kph$lu4$1@is.intellij.net...

First....good morning to all. :)

>

1. I Installed 915 (imported settings from 896)
2. I started 915.
3. Had assertion error on startup.
4. Project settings were not imported.

>

Going back to 896.

>
>

(Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains to do
this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic than

this.

Evgeny, you can take it from here...)

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

Hi Maxim,

I did submit a request.

I also read some posts about others successfully using 915 and as the
earlier poll showed, most people use EAP for real work so I can assume they
didn't rebuild their projects. It could be my config, but I don't have
anything fancy going on -- no plugins, etc. Just 896 on Win 2000.

The bug isn't hurting me as I can use 896. I would just like to get to
reporting on other "real" bugs in the heart of the product and not these
basic ones.




"Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains)" <max@intellij.net> wrote in message
news:bj2l79$qap$1@is.intellij.net...

As far as I know many people there are using 915 succesfully. So it

doesn't

seem to be a common problem and somehow related to your

project/ide/machine

config. Having said that it would be extremely helpful if you attach

tracker

request IDs to your 3 and 4 points.

>

Thanks.

>

--

>

Best regards,
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bj2kph$lu4$1@is.intellij.net...

First....good morning to all. :)

>

1. I Installed 915 (imported settings from 896)
2. I started 915.
3. Had assertion error on startup.
4. Project settings were not imported.

>

Going back to 896.

>
>

(Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains to

do

this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic than

this.

Evgeny, you can take it from here...)

>
>

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

It could be a quirk in my project. But I don't edit the project files
manually. And I have been importing settings all the time in each build.
Who knows. Someone suggested Mars is the problem. :)


"Alex Oscherov" <alex.oscherov@documentum.com> wrote in message
news:bj2lho$tq2$1@is.intellij.net...

Michael,
Of course I am not Evgeny, but I think it is not that easy. I did

everything

the same as you and it worked like I charm for me. So probably there is

some

quirk in your project.

>


0
Comment actions Permalink

http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=15653
It does not even contain a stacktrace you're talking about...

--

Best regards,
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bj2lkf$uka$1@is.intellij.net...

Hi Maxim,

>

I did submit a request.

>

I also read some posts about others successfully using 915 and as the
earlier poll showed, most people use EAP for real work so I can assume

they

didn't rebuild their projects. It could be my config, but I don't have
anything fancy going on -- no plugins, etc. Just 896 on Win 2000.

>

The bug isn't hurting me as I can use 896. I would just like to get to
reporting on other "real" bugs in the heart of the product and not these
basic ones.

>
>
>
>

"Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains)" <max@intellij.net> wrote in message
news:bj2l79$qap$1@is.intellij.net...

As far as I know many people there are using 915 succesfully. So it

doesn't

seem to be a common problem and somehow related to your

project/ide/machine

config. Having said that it would be extremely helpful if you attach

tracker

request IDs to your 3 and 4 points.

>

Thanks.

>

--

>

Best regards,
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bj2kph$lu4$1@is.intellij.net...

First....good morning to all. :)

>

1. I Installed 915 (imported settings from 896)
2. I started 915.
3. Had assertion error on startup.
4. Project settings were not imported.

>

Going back to 896.

>
>

(Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains to

do

this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic than

this.

Evgeny, you can take it from here...)

>
>

>
>

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

Michael Morett wrote:

Hi Maxim,

I did submit a request.

I also read some posts about others successfully using 915 and as the
earlier poll showed, most people use EAP for real work so I can assume they
didn't rebuild their projects.


Actually I did rebuild my projects and cleared the caches. It's a habit
right now :)

R

0
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Yes. Because when I started 915 up again, it did not produce the assertion
error. It also did not import the project settings (or show them to be
imported from the install). What I am going to do is upload the project
files to give you an opportunity to view them to see if you can spot things
that would cause an import of settings to fail.


"Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains)" <max@intellij.net> wrote in message
news:bj2mih$7se$1@is.intellij.net...

http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=15653
It does not even contain a stacktrace you're talking about...

>

--

>

Best regards,
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bj2lkf$uka$1@is.intellij.net...

Hi Maxim,

>

I did submit a request.

>

I also read some posts about others successfully using 915 and as the
earlier poll showed, most people use EAP for real work so I can assume

they

didn't rebuild their projects. It could be my config, but I don't have
anything fancy going on -- no plugins, etc. Just 896 on Win 2000.

>

The bug isn't hurting me as I can use 896. I would just like to get to
reporting on other "real" bugs in the heart of the product and not these
basic ones.

>
>
>
>

"Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains)" <max@intellij.net> wrote in message
news:bj2l79$qap$1@is.intellij.net...

As far as I know many people there are using 915 succesfully. So it

doesn't

seem to be a common problem and somehow related to your

project/ide/machine

config. Having said that it would be extremely helpful if you attach

tracker

request IDs to your 3 and 4 points.

>

Thanks.

>

--

>

Best regards,
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bj2kph$lu4$1@is.intellij.net...

First....good morning to all. :)

>

1. I Installed 915 (imported settings from 896)
2. I started 915.
3. Had assertion error on startup.
4. Project settings were not imported.

>

Going back to 896.

>
>

(Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains

to

do

this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic

than

this.

Evgeny, you can take it from here...)

>
>

>
>

>
>

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink


And I have been importing settings all the time in each build.


Could be an inter-build incompatability (for whatever reason) - you are
using a peice of alpha-grade techonology remember! Try spending the time
sitting down an remaking your project rather than importing the settings. If
your profficent with IDEA, shouldnt take you more than 15 to 20 mins.

If you still get the same problem, submit a comprehensive bug report with
reproducable steps.

Alternernatively, stop the ing whinging and live with it. Im starting
to loose patience with this newsgroup kicking a gift horse in the mouth -
and If Im feeling that way, I dont wanna think how the people at JetBrains
view it. The last thing I want to see if the EAP program to become invite
only, but if I were JetBrains I would be considering it by now.

Remember - stating your problems and tracking is one thing, bitching because
it doesnt work (as if you've been morally wronged) is another.

</vent>


0
Comment actions Permalink

Please find an error in the log file

Regards,
Vladimir Kondratyev
_____________________
JetBrains

Michael Morett wrote:

Yes. Because when I started 915 up again, it did not produce the assertion
error. It also did not import the project settings (or show them to be
imported from the install). What I am going to do is upload the project
files to give you an opportunity to view them to see if you can spot things
that would cause an import of settings to fail.


"Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains)" <max@intellij.net> wrote in message
news:bj2mih$7se$1@is.intellij.net...

>>http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=15653
>>It does not even contain a stacktrace you're talking about...
>>
>>--
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Maxim Shafirov
>>JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
>>http://www.intellij.com
>>"Develop with pleasure!"
>>
>>
>>"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:bj2lkf$uka$1@is.intellij.net...
>>
>>>Hi Maxim,
>>>
>>>I did submit a request.
>>>
>>>I also read some posts about others successfully using 915 and as the
>>>earlier poll showed, most people use EAP for real work so I can assume
>>
>>they
>>
>>>didn't rebuild their projects. It could be my config, but I don't have
>>>anything fancy going on -- no plugins, etc. Just 896 on Win 2000.
>>>
>>>The bug isn't hurting me as I can use 896. I would just like to get to
>>>reporting on other "real" bugs in the heart of the product and not these
>>>basic ones.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains)" <max@intellij.net> wrote in message
>>>news:bj2l79$qap$1@is.intellij.net...
>>>
>>>>As far as I know many people there are using 915 succesfully. So it
>>>
>>>doesn't
>>>
>>>>seem to be a common problem and somehow related to your
>>>
>>>project/ide/machine
>>>
>>>>config. Having said that it would be extremely helpful if you attach
>>>
>>>tracker
>>>
>>>>request IDs to your 3 and 4 points.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>Best regards,
>>>>Maxim Shafirov
>>>>JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
>>>>http://www.intellij.com
>>>>"Develop with pleasure!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:bj2kph$lu4$1@is.intellij.net...
>>>>
>>>>>First....good morning to all. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>1. I Installed 915 (imported settings from 896)
>>>>>2. I started 915.
>>>>>3. Had assertion error on startup.
>>>>>4. Project settings were not imported.
>>>>>
>>>>>Going back to 896.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>(Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains


to

>>>do
>>>
>>>>>this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic


than

>>>>this.
>>>>
>>>>>Evgeny, you can take it from here...)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>



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Michael already did. Thanks Michael!

--

Best regards,
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Vladimir Kondratyev (JetBrains)" <vova@intellij.net> wrote in message
news:bj4e0h$aov$1@is.intellij.net...

Please find an error in the log file

>

Regards,
Vladimir Kondratyev
_____________________
JetBrains

>

Michael Morett wrote:

Yes. Because when I started 915 up again, it did not produce the

assertion

error. It also did not import the project settings (or show them to be
imported from the install). What I am going to do is upload the project
files to give you an opportunity to view them to see if you can spot

things

that would cause an import of settings to fail.

>
>

"Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains)" <max@intellij.net> wrote in message
news:bj2mih$7se$1@is.intellij.net...

>
>>http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=15653
>>It does not even contain a stacktrace you're talking about...
>>
>>--
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Maxim Shafirov
>>JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
>>http://www.intellij.com
>>"Develop with pleasure!"
>>
>>
>>"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:bj2lkf$uka$1@is.intellij.net...
>>
>>>Hi Maxim,
>>>
>>>I did submit a request.
>>>
>>>I also read some posts about others successfully using 915 and as the
>>>earlier poll showed, most people use EAP for real work so I can assume
>>
>>they
>>
>>>didn't rebuild their projects. It could be my config, but I don't have
>>>anything fancy going on -- no plugins, etc. Just 896 on Win 2000.
>>>
>>>The bug isn't hurting me as I can use 896. I would just like to get to
>>>reporting on other "real" bugs in the heart of the product and not

these

>>>basic ones.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains)" <max@intellij.net> wrote in message
>>>news:bj2l79$qap$1@is.intellij.net...
>>>
>>>>As far as I know many people there are using 915 succesfully. So it
>>>
>>>doesn't
>>>
>>>>seem to be a common problem and somehow related to your
>>>
>>>project/ide/machine
>>>
>>>>config. Having said that it would be extremely helpful if you attach
>>>
>>>tracker
>>>
>>>>request IDs to your 3 and 4 points.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>Best regards,
>>>>Maxim Shafirov
>>>>JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
>>>>http://www.intellij.com
>>>>"Develop with pleasure!"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:bj2kph$lu4$1@is.intellij.net...
>>>>
>>>>>First....good morning to all. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>1. I Installed 915 (imported settings from 896)
>>>>>2. I started 915.
>>>>>3. Had assertion error on startup.
>>>>>4. Project settings were not imported.
>>>>>
>>>>>Going back to 896.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>(Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains
>

to

>
>>>do
>>>
>>>>>this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic
>

than

>
>>>>this.
>>>>
>>>>>Evgeny, you can take it from here...)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

>


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Actually, not just Mars. Halley also has its share of blame, since it has been found sneaking past Neptune these days, I'm sure it's up to something with Mars!

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Michael Morett wrote:

1. I Installed 915 (imported settings from 896)


Using the zip and re-using the previous build's system and config
directories seems to work just fine for me. Maybe there's a problem in
the code that imports settings from old builds?

Using the zip also allows me to easily maintain multiple installations
of IDEA. Unzip, copy the JRE directory, license file and plugins across,
edit the idea.bat to point to my .IntellijIDEA-eap directory for system
and config and I'm ready to go.

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://java.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: 416-643-4846 | Fax: 416-594-1919

0
Comment actions Permalink

"Bitching"?

"Whining"?

Get laid buddy.

I was merely discussing and providing feedback in a rather objective and non
personal way without any emotional language. Take your personal attacks
elsewhere.


"Dan Hardiker" <dhardiker@eorigen.com> wrote in message
news:bj4crc$88t$1@is.intellij.net...


And I have been importing settings all the time in each build.

>

Could be an inter-build incompatability (for whatever reason) - you are
using a peice of alpha-grade techonology remember! Try spending the time
sitting down an remaking your project rather than importing the settings.

If

your profficent with IDEA, shouldnt take you more than 15 to 20 mins.

>

If you still get the same problem, submit a comprehensive bug report with
reproducable steps.

>

Alternernatively, stop the ing whinging and live with it. Im

starting

to loose patience with this newsgroup kicking a gift horse in the mouth -
and If Im feeling that way, I dont wanna think how the people at JetBrains
view it. The last thing I want to see if the EAP program to become invite
only, but if I were JetBrains I would be considering it by now.

>

Remember - stating your problems and tracking is one thing, bitching

because

it doesnt work (as if you've been morally wronged) is another.

>

</vent>

>
>


0
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I have used the windows installer exes to install about 10 EAP builds, and I've never had an upgrade problem.

The installer handles importing the settings, and I choose to have the cache in the IDEA install directory so it is recreated from scratch each time.

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Me too Alex. :) I use the same process as you and I (until now) never had
a problem. I think the last time I had a problem, it was documented (they
switched project formats). I've sent them my project files so maybe they
could spot something in the format. I'll stay at 896 for now. It's not a
problem.

I think I started the thread after reading Evgeny's post and
experiencing/seeing a lot of 908 related problems. He was questioning the
level of testing done on these EAPs. When I couldn't do a simple install
and import of settings, I too started questioning the level of testing.
Since most people are not experiencing this problem, even with an identical
install process and configuration, this can fall under the "weird" category
unique to my project files.

I'll give it another try on the next build and if I have time, I may have to
resort to rebuilding the project files. In my opinion, this is one of those
"level 1" areas where Jetbrains needs to nail it solid. There just isn't
any room for install problems once they ship this. If I can contribute, via
bugs reports, to helping them get there, all the better.

If I had to paraphrase Evgeny, I think he was saying that seeing a bug in an
EAP is not the issue. It is EAP after all. We acknowledge this. It is
seeing basic, obvious, how-on-earth-did-you-miss-this-one type bugs slip
thru.

Some of their stuff doesn't work outright and Jetbrains will tell you so (ie
EJB stuff). They know it and they are working on it. Not a big deal. The
warning is appreciated. My perception with 915 was one of those "how did
you miss this??" things when I couldn't do a basic install and import of
settings. Had 908 not happened, I probably would have just filed a bug
report and never made a comment. It was in context of seeing 908 and the
relatively high number of problems with it that started to paint a different
picture. In the end, this particular issue seems unique to my setup and not
a reflection of Jetbrains testing processes.

I think. ?? :)


"Alex" <no_mail@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:4999751.1062612147808.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

I have used the windows installer exes to install about 10 EAP builds, and

I've never had an upgrade problem.
>

The installer handles importing the settings, and I choose to have the

cache in the IDEA install directory so it is recreated from scratch each
time.
>


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Let me take you back to your original post:

...>
...> (Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains to
do
...> this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic than
this.
...> Evgeny, you can take it from here...)


"Bitching"?


I would class "It really doesn't get anymore basic than this" as bitching.

"Whining"?


Complaining in this matter ("pretty please" / "BEG") I would class as
whining.

You could add "Evgeny, you can take it from here" as antaganism.

Get laid buddy.


May I ask what my sexual life has to do with your attitude problem?

I was merely discussing and providing feedback in a rather objective and

non

personal way without any emotional language. Take your personal attacks
elsewhere.


I dont know about you, but I would call begging (or at least requesting
someone to beg for you) an emotional response.

JetBrains have no obligation to do any testing on an EAP, the fact they even
make sure it compiles is a bonus. The EAP's are a gift. If someone gives you
a gift and it doesnt work - do you complain to them about not checking
before giving it to you, or do you realise that you had nothing in the first
place so you havent lost anything.

The personal attack was aimed at getting people on threads like this to
leave JetBrains alone to get on with what they need to. If it doesnt work
for you - tough. Ive had enough of a few people on this forum slinging mud
at JetBrains (which is what you did by saying they dont do any testing, and
thus claiming that they arent doing something they should).



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"Dan Hardiker" <dhardiker@eorigen.com> wrote in message
news:bj6vll$kea$1@is.intellij.net...

The EAP's are a gift.


Well, not exactly ;)

If someone gives you a gift and it doesnt work - do you complain to them
about not checking before giving it to you, or do you realise that you had

>nothing in the first place so you havent lost anything.

In either way I would definetely be pissed off :) But as they say in Russia,
one do not check the teeth of a horse, received as a gift :)))


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we brits have the same expression, but we say "Don't look a gift horse
in the mouth"... however, until I read your version I never understood
it! You learn something new every day :)

Michael Jouravlev wrote:

"Dan Hardiker" <dhardiker@eorigen.com> wrote in message
news:bj6vll$kea$1@is.intellij.net...

>>The EAP's are a gift.


Well, not exactly ;)

>>If someone gives you a gift and it doesnt work - do you complain to them
>>about not checking before giving it to you, or do you realise that you had
>>nothing in the first place so you havent lost anything.


In either way I would definetely be pissed off :) But as they say in Russia,
one do not check the teeth of a horse, received as a gift :)))


0
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I hope you reply to this so that you can feel you've gotten "the last word"
on the subject because I wont continue this childish behavior with you.

However you interpreted my comments, the one thing you cannot say is that I
attacked anyone personally with profanity and I certainly didn't tell anyone
to stop "[...ing bitching]". You said that to me. Directly. Not to the
group. To me. If you've got a problem with me, reply to me directly and we
can take it offline.

It is not up to you to decide what Jetbrains hears or gets to read. This is
a forum for feedback. Evgeny was providing feedback. Some people didn't
like what he had to say and attacked him to the point of forcing him to
apologize repeatedly. You didn't like my comments, but I wont apologize.
Personally, I think Evgeny had a legitmate point. Ironically enough, so did
Maxim. This was one of the rare instances where two opposing points of view
are equally right. I enjoyed reading the back and forth comments. Others
got pissed.

Any comment Jetbrains reads, assuming it is coming from a legitimate tester,
is worthy and has value. By your logic, anyone who posts anything remotely
negative about the builds should be met with a "stop ".
Maybe I should tell Joaquin to stop bitching about his issue with folders
containing accents. But I wont. Or when GC asks what to do regarding his
templates issue, I should tell him "stop ". But I wont.

Equally idiotic is "this is EAP...deal with it". This is EAP? Really? No
shit. I would have never realized. Sarcasm aside, I've been doing EAPs
since Ariadna. Most of the time, I'll simply report a bug and get back to
work fully recognizing that it is indeed an EAP program and something isn't
working. If you think you are frustrated with people's negative comments,
consider how I feel when someone with no knowledge of my history of
participation tells me "it's an EAP program! It's alpha code!" as if I
didn't know that already.

The common concern among many who fear the negative feedback, is that
Jetbrains will cut off the EAP program. If you read between the lines this
translates to "I can't get my free versions IDEA anymore". That's the true
fear. But I doubt Jetbrains will do that. There is too much value provided
by the testers, there are too many positive developments and exchanges of
ideas and frankly I dont get the impression that they are getting ticked off
by this. In some areas, they feel "damned if we do...damned if we dont",
but I dont sense frustration and a desire to end this program. I could be
wrong, but I'd rather hear it from Eugene or Maxim than some intermediary
who supposes to speak for Jetbrains.

Negative feedback is good. It is healthy. Various opinions are good and
healthy. None of us wake up in the morning and think "what nasty thing can
I say today to piss off Jetbrains." And very, very few of us slam Jetbrains
outright with malice. Certainly, not with the viciousness that the testers
slam each other. Jetbrains doesn't need "defenders". They need honest
feedback. These guys have a thick skin and are arguably among some of the
best programmers out there. The quality of their product speaks for itself.
And we're here because we love the product and want to make it better.

That said, feel free to reply to me personally if you feel like cursing me
out again but let's try to maintain a sense of professionalism in the
newsgroup. I didn't keep it professional in my last post and for that I'll
apologize to the group as a whole. But I won't apologize for my original
thoughts nor will I self censor myself with respect to comments on the
product. It's the best IDE on the market and we're here to make it better.



"Dan Hardiker" <dhardiker@eorigen.com> wrote in message
news:bj6vll$kea$1@is.intellij.net...

Let me take you back to your original post:

>

...>
...> (Can someone please, pretty please, BEG the QA manager at Jetbrains

to

do
...> this level of basic testing. It really doesn't get anymore basic

than

this.
...> Evgeny, you can take it from here...)

>


"Bitching"?

>

I would class "It really doesn't get anymore basic than this" as bitching.

>

"Whining"?

>

Complaining in this matter ("pretty please" / "BEG") I would class as
whining.

>

You could add "Evgeny, you can take it from here" as antaganism.

>

Get laid buddy.

>

May I ask what my sexual life has to do with your attitude problem?

>

I was merely discussing and providing feedback in a rather objective and

non

personal way without any emotional language. Take your personal attacks
elsewhere.

>

I dont know about you, but I would call begging (or at least requesting
someone to beg for you) an emotional response.

>

JetBrains have no obligation to do any testing on an EAP, the fact they

even

make sure it compiles is a bonus. The EAP's are a gift. If someone gives

you

a gift and it doesnt work - do you complain to them about not checking
before giving it to you, or do you realise that you had nothing in the

first

place so you havent lost anything.

>

The personal attack was aimed at getting people on threads like this to
leave JetBrains alone to get on with what they need to. If it doesnt work
for you - tough. Ive had enough of a few people on this forum slinging mud
at JetBrains (which is what you did by saying they dont do any testing,

and

thus claiming that they arent doing something they should).

>
>


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Heh, it seems this saying is everywhere -- we got the same thing here in Brazil, "Cavalo dado não se olha os dentes", which translates to the same sayings you quoted above.

But anyway, IDEA isn't a horse. Leave that to the other IDE's, IDEA is more like a Ferrari :)

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Michael, perhaps if your original post in this thread didn't have such an attitude you would get a much friendlier response. There are many of us who can use 915 without any problems, so what are we to think? Report the facts and leave out the accusations because they aren't necessary. Jetbrains makes a damn fine IDE and everyone knows it. If you're gonna report that 915 doesn't work then you at least need to provide some detail. There's no way in hell I could debug the problem you are having with the information you have provided. If you don't know how to test an alpha or beta product, then don't. You're not adding any value to the process.

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Marcus Brito wrote:

Heh, it seems this saying is everywhere -- we got the same thing here in Brazil, "Cavalo dado n?o se olha os dentes", which translates to the same sayings you quoted above.

But anyway, IDEA isn't a horse. Leave that to the other IDE's, IDEA is more like a Ferrari :)

Hum... If Idea is a Ferrari, and others are Horses, doesn't that mean
that IDEA is not an IDE, or perhaps the others are not IDEs. I got a
ClassCastException on this comment :)

I think if IDEA was a horse, it's not just any horse... it's...

Seabiscuit!

And I wouldn't look at it's teeth right now because it can bite from
time to time... :)

R

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LOL this message was great

Robert S. Sfeir wrote:

Marcus Brito wrote:

>> Heh, it seems this saying is everywhere -- we got the same thing here
>> in Brazil, "Cavalo dado n?o se olha os dentes", which translates to
>> the same sayings you quoted above.
>>
>> But anyway, IDEA isn't a horse. Leave that to the other IDE's, IDEA is
>> more like a Ferrari :)


Hum... If Idea is a Ferrari, and others are Horses, doesn't that mean
that IDEA is not an IDE, or perhaps the others are not IDEs. I got a
ClassCastException on this comment :)

I think if IDEA was a horse, it's not just any horse... it's...

Seabiscuit!

And I wouldn't look at it's teeth right now because it can bite from
time to time... :)

R


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But as they say in Russia,
one do not check the teeth of a horse, received as a gift :)))


Strange, Germans say this too :)

Tom

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These are the messages that make me feel like in the good old EAP times :)

Tom

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