How great a place would the world be if there were an Intellij Idea for Ruby?
I also wanted something like Idea for Python. Unfortunately many of the refactorings would be difficult (impossible?) to do in a dynamic language without static type information. E.g. renaming method "getName" should only rename "getName" when it is called on instances one specific class.
I like Python a lot for small scripts, but when I have to develop more that a few pages of code I actually like (the more verbose) Java with refactorings (IDEA) better that Python.
Hani, I was hoping that the request was a joke too... alas it doesn't seem like it, I think Steve was serious when he asked.
Why would it be a joke? I want to use an IDE as good as IDEA with every language that I use, not just Java. The original poster probably thinks the same way.
When I submit a feature request, I don't think about whether it would be good for other people; I just think about whether it would be good for me. And what's good for me is getting IDEA to work with all the languages I use. It's JetBrains' job to determine if it's good for other people.
>>Hani, I was hoping that the request was a joke too... alas it doesn't seem >>like it, I think Steve was serious when he asked.
Why would it be a joke? I want to use an IDE as good as IDEA with every language that I use, not just Java.
I'm glad that people are so enthusiastic about IDEA that they want it for their other favorite language(s). Even though it isn't realistic for IDEA to stray far from its core competency in Java and Java technologies, let's not beat up on somebody for the positive sentiment.
Actually, that's PRECISELY the problem. Thoughtless users who clutter the tracker/forums with selfish pointless requests. I realise the common argument is 'it's just a request, the IDEA guys will know how to handle it best', but the IDEA guys in fact ALWAYS point out how timeconsuming it is going through the tracker, due to the sheer volume of issues. So if you want to help IDEA, then think very carefully about your requests. Go through a checklist in your head 'is this a realistic request? Is it worth the few minutes of the IDEA team's time that it will waste for them to evaluate my request? Am I contributing to ruining the best IDE for java development by making incredibly retarded requests that only 3 people, none of whom are java developers, will need?'
You sure took a lot of time out of your day to write that. And considering that hardly anyone would make it this far down the thread to read anything you have to say here, I think it's clear that you're not doing some public service to deter off-topic posts.
I think people need to stop requesting lame language support for an IDE that is CLEARLY supporting ONLY Java technologies. If it were to support others, then the C# version would have been included in this one... it wasn't.
As for Hani's posts, they're always useful and well thought out, and I read what he had to say, and since you got 'this far down', you did too.
Back off, and let's get back to posting comments about IDEA as it relates to the current feature set in this EAP, and let's stop adding extra noise to this forum, by asking about things which are completely unrelated! This is an EAP list, and as such it pertains to the current information being added as listed here:
If it's not on that list, it's not going to happen. EAP is not a wish list. If you want something added, ad it to the tracker. If you want to discuss something that doesn't work right, or should work better, post it to the EAP.
You sure took a lot of time out of your day to write that. And
considering that hardly anyone would make it this far down the thread to read anything you have to say here, I think it's clear that you're not doing some public service to deter off-topic posts. >
You sure took a lot of time out of your day to write that. And
considering that hardly anyone would make it this far down the thread to read anything you have to say here, I think it's clear that you're not doing some public service to deter off-topic posts. >
I know your point, Hani, and I even appreciate the function you serve as IDEA's very own Cerberus, guarding against frivolous feature requests. I guess it is a matter of style. Can an effective Cerberus be a gentleman and a guardian simultaneously?
Hani Suleiman wrote:
Actually, that's PRECISELY the problem. Thoughtless users who clutter the tracker/forums with selfish pointless requests. I realise the common argument is 'it's just a request, the IDEA guys will know how to handle it best', but the IDEA guys in fact ALWAYS point out how timeconsuming it is going through the tracker, due to the sheer volume of issues. So if you want to help IDEA, then think very carefully about your requests. Go through a checklist in your head 'is this a realistic request? Is it worth the few minutes of the IDEA team's time that it will waste for them to evaluate my request? Am I contributing to ruining the best IDE for java development by making incredibly retarded requests that only 3 people, none of whom are java developers, will need?'
I know your point, Hani, and I even appreciate the function you serve as IDEA's very own Cerberus, guarding against frivolous feature requests. I guess it is a matter of style. Can an effective Cerberus be a gentleman and a guardian simultaneously?
]]> Jon, sometimes too much sweetness is excessive. Until someone is called names personally, the game goes by the rules. I personally love IDEA, I respect people who created it, and people who participate in this forum. But sometimes one can get anxious, angry or bitter. This is normal. Even if the bitterness is a constant state for a person. We are not just plain users, we are characters here, in this virtual world. Some bitter, some joyful, and some who always try to reason.
Do you like swedish meatballs with raspberry jam and whipped cream? (yuck) Haven't you really got sick of this "would be nice, I'd prefer, in my humble opinion, please, please, pretty please with sugar on top"?
Thank you Turkish, I am sweet enough. (c) Bricktop. </flame>
The real programmers only work with JAVA. Please never support any other language. If you use another language then don't buy IDEA, go with ECLIPSE that at least have syntaxis highlight and some compiler options (no refactorings, no intellijs searchs)
Fortunately, that is very far from the truth. Never forget that Java is "just another language" in a virtual sea of languages. It can't do anything that can't be done in other languages. It does some things better, some worse. That's it. In fact, the best way to increase your awareness of Java's capabilities and limitations is to study another language (I'd suggest Python but there are plenty of other good candidatates... C# is a good example of another of implementation of a java-like language... Lisp a good example of something very different indeed).
As a direct part of the fall-out (in the UK) of the Sept 11 disaster is that my Java skills have been put on the back burner and I've returned to being a VB programmer again. Nevertheless, I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say that learning Java has doubled my VB productivity.
Actually, that's PRECISELY the problem. Thoughtless users who clutter the tracker/forums with selfish pointless requests.
Of course people propose features they themselves want. Unless I've missed something, the alternative is for people to propose feature they don't want.
Indeed it is. Choice of language has nothing to do with how 'real' a programmer is.
But I think one of the reasons that IDEA is so good, is that it was designed from the ground up as a Java IDE. Adding support for other languages (except through the plug-in architecture) would reduce its intuitiveness and clutter up the user interface something shocking.
For example, if I right-click on a menu item in #833, I scroll down to a menu item that says:
'Find Join Point Identified by PointCut'
I'm a Java developer, what has that got to do with anything I'm doing?
It's distracting clutter and doesn't belong in the core application.
>But I think one of the reasons that IDEA is so good, >is that it was designed from the ground up as a Java IDE. >Adding support for other languages (except through the >plug-in architecture) would reduce its intuitiveness >and clutter up the user interface something shocking.
I agree. IDEA should focus only on Java. You cannot make an application, that manages everything perfectly. You only can make an application, that tries everything, but the problem is, that it will does nothing right.
When I would have the choice between an all-in-one application, that is an email client, an word processor and a file manager (and therefore does nothing right), I definitely would choose three separate applications, a good email client, a good word processor and a good file manager.
That's a valid point. On the other hand, I continue to be surprised by how uncivil and melodramatic people can be in this setting. Yeah, watching flame wars is fun and all, but on the other hand, this list is also where valuable information and feedback is supposed to come from. It's like trying to watching a documentary and a soap opera at the same time. Oh well, I guess that's why picture-in-picture was invented :)
Indeed it is. Choice of language has nothing to do with how 'real' a
programmer is. >
But I think one of the reasons that IDEA is so good, is that it was
designed from the ground up as a Java IDE. Adding support for other languages (except through the plug-in architecture) would reduce its intuitiveness and clutter up the user interface something shocking. >
For example, if I right-click on a menu item in #833, I scroll down to a
menu item that says: >
'Find Join Point Identified by PointCut'
>
I'm a Java developer, what has that got to do with anything I'm doing?
>
It's distracting clutter and doesn't belong in the core application.
Indeed it is. Choice of language has nothing to do with how 'real' a
programmer is. >
But I think one of the reasons that IDEA is so good, is that it was
designed from the ground up as a Java IDE. Adding support for other languages (except through the plug-in architecture) would reduce its intuitiveness and clutter up the user interface something shocking. >
For example, if I right-click on a menu item in #833, I scroll down to a
menu item that says: >
'Find Join Point Identified by PointCut'
>
I'm a Java developer, what has that got to do with anything I'm doing?
>
It's distracting clutter and doesn't belong in the core application.
It's a real statement about the (apparently small) difference between this forums and your typical usenet newsgroup when I post something lighthearted, and people start flaming away. 6 months or a year ago this wouldn't have happened.
And we have people who complain about the quality of EAP releases, post nasty messages about new Idea features, etc. Maybe this is just another online community gone bad (it certainly wouldn't be anything new).
I didn't find your post particularly lighthearted (there's nothing funny about destroying our favorite IDE) and if you think you've been flamed here you truly haven't seen the devolution of other forums. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you then you shouldn't post.
how much is ruby used? anyone doing real development with it? how much?
I also wanted something like Idea for Python. Unfortunately many of the refactorings would be difficult (impossible?) to do in a dynamic language without static type information. E.g. renaming method "getName" should only rename "getName" when it is called on instances one specific class.
I like Python a lot for small scripts, but when I have to develop more that a few pages of code I actually like (the more verbose) Java with refactorings (IDEA) better that Python.
Sincerely
Jens Peter Grosen
I assume this is a joke.
For my part, I think that IDEA nothing but a waste of hard drive space until the day it supports Haskell and Miranda.
What? You can't be serious, Hani! Haskell and Miranda are good for nothing.
IDEA should support at least Lisp, Scheme, and, of course, BASIC. How can you live without BASIC??
"Marcus Brito" <pazu@animegaiden.com.br> wrote in message
news:5778053.1057001403174.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
nothing.
>
can you live without BASIC??
Can IDEA support ColdFusion and WiTango please? I mean if you're gonna add
PHP, we should also have those 2 things.
Hani, I was hoping that the request was a joke too... alas it doesn't seem
like it, I think Steve was serious when he asked.
R
"Robert S. Sfeir" <robert@codepuccino.com> wrote in message
news:bdq3tb$tea$1@is.intellij.net...
Why would it be a joke? I want to use an IDE as good as IDEA with every
language that I use, not just Java. The original poster probably thinks the
same way.
When I submit a feature request, I don't think about whether it would be
good for other people; I just think about whether it would be good for me.
And what's good for me is getting IDEA to work with all the languages I use.
It's JetBrains' job to determine if it's good for other people.
Erik Hanson wrote:
>>Hani, I was hoping that the request was a joke too... alas it doesn't seem
>>like it, I think Steve was serious when he asked.
I'm glad that people are so enthusiastic about IDEA that they want it
for their other favorite language(s). Even though it isn't realistic for
IDEA to stray far from its core competency in Java and Java
technologies, let's not beat up on somebody for the positive sentiment.
Jon
Actually, that's PRECISELY the problem. Thoughtless users who clutter the tracker/forums with selfish pointless requests. I realise the common argument is 'it's just a request, the IDEA guys will know how to handle it best', but the IDEA guys in fact ALWAYS point out how timeconsuming it is going through the tracker, due to the sheer volume of issues. So if you want to help IDEA, then think very carefully about your requests. Go through a checklist in your head 'is this a realistic request? Is it worth the few minutes of the IDEA team's time that it will waste for them to evaluate my request? Am I contributing to ruining the best IDE for java development by making incredibly retarded requests that only 3 people, none of whom are java developers, will need?'
Hani,
You sure took a lot of time out of your day to write that. And considering that hardly anyone would make it this far down the thread to read anything you have to say here, I think it's clear that you're not doing some public service to deter off-topic posts.
Loosen up!
I think people need to stop requesting lame language support for an IDE that
is CLEARLY supporting ONLY Java technologies. If it were to support others,
then the C# version would have been included in this one... it wasn't.
As for Hani's posts, they're always useful and well thought out, and I read
what he had to say, and since you got 'this far down', you did too.
Back off, and let's get back to posting comments about IDEA as it relates to
the current feature set in this EAP, and let's stop adding extra noise to
this forum, by asking about things which are completely unrelated! This is
an EAP list, and as such it pertains to the current information being added
as listed here:
http://www.intellij.net/eap/products/idea/aurora.jsp
If it's not on that list, it's not going to happen. EAP is not a wish list.
If you want something added, ad it to the tracker. If you want to discuss
something that doesn't work right, or should work better, post it to the
EAP.
Geez!
R
"Steve Conover" <sgcjr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16772004.1057006550435.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
>
considering that hardly anyone would make it this far down the thread to
read anything you have to say here, I think it's clear that you're not doing
some public service to deter off-topic posts.
>
"Steve Conover" <sgcjr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16772004.1057006550435.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
>
considering that hardly anyone would make it this far down the thread to
read anything you have to say here, I think it's clear that you're not doing
some public service to deter off-topic posts.
>
He is loose :) C'mon, this is fun :)
I wasn't serious, lighten up.
I know your point, Hani, and I even appreciate the function you serve as
IDEA's very own Cerberus, guarding against frivolous feature requests. I
guess it is a matter of style. Can an effective Cerberus be a gentleman
and a guardian simultaneously?
Hani Suleiman wrote:
"Jon Steelman" <steelman@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bdqe58$j9v$1@is.intellij.net...
]]>
Jon, sometimes too much sweetness is excessive. Until someone is called
names personally, the game goes by the rules. I personally love IDEA, I
respect people who created it, and people who participate in this forum. But
sometimes one can get anxious, angry or bitter. This is normal. Even if the
bitterness is a constant state for a person. We are not just plain users, we
are characters here, in this virtual world. Some bitter, some joyful, and
some who always try to reason.
Do you like swedish meatballs with raspberry jam and whipped cream? (yuck)
Haven't you really got sick of this "would be nice, I'd prefer, in my humble
opinion, please, please, pretty please with sugar on top"?
Thank you Turkish, I am sweet enough. (c) Bricktop.
</flame>
I disagree.
IDEA is dead in the water unless we have PICK support.
.... and MUMPS. I know a bloke who works in a hospital, and he said IDEA needs MUMPS support.
:-/
The real programmers only work with JAVA. Please never support any other
language. If you use another language then don't buy IDEA, go with ECLIPSE
that at least have
syntaxis highlight and some compiler options (no refactorings, no intellijs
searchs)
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Fortunately, that is very far from the truth. Never forget that Java is "just another language" in a virtual sea of languages. It can't do anything that can't be done in other languages. It does some things better, some worse. That's it.
In fact, the best way to increase your awareness of Java's capabilities and limitations is to study another language (I'd suggest Python but there are plenty of other good candidatates... C# is a good example of another of implementation of a java-like language... Lisp a good example of something very different indeed).
As a direct part of the fall-out (in the UK) of the Sept 11 disaster is that my Java skills have been put on the back burner and I've returned to being a VB programmer again. Nevertheless, I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say that learning Java has doubled my VB productivity.
Vince.
Of course people propose features they themselves want. Unless I've missed something, the alternative is for people to propose feature they don't want.
Vince.
Fortunately, that is very far from the truth.
Indeed it is. Choice of language has nothing to do with how 'real' a programmer is.
But I think one of the reasons that IDEA is so good, is that it was designed from the ground up as a Java IDE. Adding support for other languages (except through the plug-in architecture) would reduce its intuitiveness and clutter up the user interface something shocking.
For example, if I right-click on a menu item in #833, I scroll down to a menu item that says:
'Find Join Point Identified by PointCut'
I'm a Java developer, what has that got to do with anything I'm doing?
It's distracting clutter and doesn't belong in the core application.
>But I think one of the reasons that IDEA is so good,
>is that it was designed from the ground up as a Java IDE.
>Adding support for other languages (except through the
>plug-in architecture) would reduce its intuitiveness
>and clutter up the user interface something shocking.
I agree. IDEA should focus only on Java. You cannot make an
application, that manages everything perfectly. You only can make an
application, that tries everything, but the problem is, that it will
does nothing right.
When I would have the choice between an all-in-one application, that
is an email client, an word processor and a file manager (and
therefore does nothing right), I definitely would choose three
separate applications, a good email client, a good word processor and
a good file manager.
Tom
That's a valid point. On the other hand, I continue to be surprised by how uncivil and melodramatic people can be in this setting. Yeah, watching flame wars is fun and all, but on the other hand, this list is also where valuable information and feedback is supposed to come from. It's like trying to watching a documentary and a soap opera at the same time. Oh well, I guess that's why picture-in-picture was invented :)
Good segue. ;)
What does 'Find Join Point Identified by PointCut' do?
"Rayz" <no_mail@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:27090918.1057053452888.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
>
programmer is.
>
designed from the ground up as a Java IDE. Adding support for other
languages (except through the plug-in architecture) would reduce its
intuitiveness and clutter up the user interface something shocking.
>
menu item that says:
>
>
>
>
Works on error/warning declaration or advice from .aj file and finds places
where this stuff applies to.
--
Best regards,
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"
"Brad Lane" <_no_spam_brad.lane@pearson.com> wrote in message
news:bds2hi$i5t$1@is.intellij.net...
>
>
>
What does 'Find Join Point Identified by PointCut' do?
Ask yourself; if you don't know what it means, then does it belong on the context menu of a Java IDE...? ... :)
It's something to do with AspectJ; no doubt someone here knows exactly what it does.
It's a real statement about the (apparently small) difference between this forums and your typical usenet newsgroup when I post something lighthearted, and people start flaming away. 6 months or a year ago this wouldn't have happened.
And we have people who complain about the quality of EAP releases, post nasty messages about new Idea features, etc. Maybe this is just another online community gone bad (it certainly wouldn't be anything new).
See the Maven thread for a great example of what I'm talking about
http://www.intellij.net/forums/thread.jsp?forum=22&thread=33803&tstart=0&trange=15
All we need is a little bit of abortion and objectivism discussion and we'll have usenet.
Wow, I missed that thread. What a lot of fun it seems to be. Time to head on over there and add some fuel to the fire!
I didn't find your post particularly lighthearted (there's nothing funny about destroying our favorite IDE) and if you think you've been flamed here you truly haven't seen the devolution of other forums. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you then you shouldn't post.
Or for JavaScript...
"Steve Conover" <sgcjr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1216259.1056992978030.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
Ruby?