What version control system does Jetbrains use?

Heya - a question for the Eugene and the Jets ( could be a rock band! )...

What version control system do you guys use for the codebase of Idea?

With all the "issues" with CVS lately, I'm sure wondering if you use that
;)

Mark

24 comments

We just moved to CVS.
Version 3.0 - StarTeam
Versions 1.0-2.5 - Visual SourceSafe

Eugene Belyaev, CTO
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Mark Derricutt" <pinhead@satinism.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.04.09.10.16.26.96075@satinism.org...

Heya - a question for the Eugene and the Jets ( could be a rock band! )...

>

What version control system do you guys use for the codebase of Idea?

>

With all the "issues" with CVS lately, I'm sure wondering if you use that
;)

>

Mark

>


0

On Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:37:00 +0400, Eugene Belyaev wrote:

We just moved to CVS.
Version 3.0 - StarTeam
Versions 1.0-2.5 - Visual SourceSafe


Cool. What were the driving reasons for switching to CVS ( if I may ask )
and not say Perforce? Price? Performance? Scalability? Openness?

0

I'll try to guess:
Borland able to buy Perforce too and then new VCS moving will be required ;)
Price is not main advantage of CVS.
Performance and scalability probably too.
Openness is pretty good.
But for me is main advantage of CVS is full compatibility with coming soon subversion with its enhancements.
Its difficult to use CVS after StarTeam or ClearCase etc. And this mean that JetBrains will make new CVS integration best VCS integration of IDEA.

0

We just need to create a good integration with CVS, the only way to do it is
to use ourselves.

--
Eugene Belyaev, CTO
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"



"Mark Derricutt" <pinhead@satinism.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.04.09.12.11.46.811728@satinism.org...

On Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:37:00 +0400, Eugene Belyaev wrote:

>

We just moved to CVS.
Version 3.0 - StarTeam
Versions 1.0-2.5 - Visual SourceSafe

>

Cool. What were the driving reasons for switching to CVS ( if I may ask )
and not say Perforce? Price? Performance? Scalability? Openness?

>


0

"Eugene Belyaev" <beg@intellij.com> wrote:

We just need to create a good integration with CVS, the only way to do it is
to use ourselves.


Having used StarTeam, you'll understand what I mean when I suggest that a
view that shows me a good status of the difference between my sandbox and
the code base is a real plus. For example, the way I can set up the
StarTeam main view to filter and clearly show me the files where I have
added/edited/ deleted in my sandbox, and to clearly show the files that
have been added/edited/deleted in the repository, so I can quickly check
and sync up with the code base. All in one compact view, sorted by name,
directory, etc. If you can do this with CVS, I won't need WinCVS any more.

Regards,
Paul

0

Paul Hodgetts wrote:

and sync up with the code base. All in one compact view, sorted by name,
directory, etc. If you can do this with CVS, I won't need WinCVS any more.


http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=360

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://java.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: 416-643-4846 | Fax: 416-594-1919

0

We just need to create a good integration with CVS,
the only way to do it is
to use ourselves.


May we hope that you will switch to Perforce for the next major IDEA release?

;)

0

On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:27:26 +0000, Jacob Bay Hansen wrote:

No, no, Subversion ;)


No no no - Stellation - store all your versions in admin-defined RDBMS -
yech :P

0

On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:27:26 +0000, Jacob Bay Hansen wrote:

No, no, Subversion ;)


Just installed RH9 on my PC at home and see it comes with subversion rpms.
Think I might give it a bash ;)

0

On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:30:12 +1200, Mark Derricutt wrote:

Just installed RH9 on my PC at home and see it comes with subversion rpms.
Think I might give it a bash ;)


Have been playing with subversion over the weekend - very nice :) We now
have two people in the office wanting to convert ( the hierarchy of our
cvs tree is quite hideous ) but the main dev guy doesn't really want to
yet :(

0

Is there a plain-JAVA version of Subversion available?

Tom

0

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:01:10 +0200, Thomas Singer wrote:

Is there a plain-JAVA version of Subversion available?


Not that I'm aware of - but one can setup the Subversion WebDav module and
run the server through Apache2 ( however I liked the ease of use of
running svnserve through ssh ).

Mark

0

Thomas Singer wrote:

Is there a plain-JAVA version of Subversion available?


What do you mean by a plain-JAVA version? I think there is a Java
wrapper around the Subversions libraries in development, but I don't
know how complete it is. There's also a Python API wrapper.

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://java.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: 416-643-4846 | Fax: 416-594-1919

0

I meant pure-JAVA-version like they exist for CVS. Wrappers generally
look a kind of unstable to me. I do not care about Python, only Monty
Python.

Tom

0

Thomas Singer wrote:

I meant pure-JAVA-version like they exist for CVS. Wrappers generally
look a kind of unstable to me. I do not care about Python, only Monty
Python.


I think they're concentrating on making the C libraries the defacto
implementation of Subversion rather than writing a duplicate
implementation in Java. I may be wrong, this is just the impressions I
get from reading the mailing list and the source code. I think they're
using SWIG to do the wrapping so there's even less chance of errors
caused by wrapping by hand.

Python's cool 8) I get the impression that it's the preferred scripting
language for Subversion.

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://java.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: 416-643-4846 | Fax: 416-594-1919

0

Actually, I think the C client libraries are just the reference implementation, but they intended to make the server interface easy to write client libraries for in many languages. They mention somewhere that they expect (for example), native java client libraries to be written by someone eventually.

0

Guys,

Any of you realize that they have been close to 1 year in the alpha stage? It has been 3 years since they started the project and NO RELEASE. I was all raving about it at the end of 2001 because they were close to alpha!
I am afraid to even start to guess when they might finish their beta!

Don't get me wrong. I believe it will be a great VCS, contending with the best like BitKeeper, Accurev and to a lesser extend P4. The catch is when? That has cooled my enthusiasm a bit even though I understand they want to build it right. But 1 year in alpha!

Out of curiosity anybody using it in production?

Jacques

0

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 05:10:25 +0000, Jacques Morel wrote:

Any of you realize that they have been close to 1 year in the alpha stage?
It has been 3 years since they started the project and NO RELEASE. I was
all raving about it at the end of 2001 because they were close to alpha! I
am afraid to even start to guess when they might finish their beta!


Thats the nature of Open Source Applications.

But what do you mean NO RELEASE? Theres been plenty of releasing, its
shipped with Red Hat 9 - thats a release. Ok - so its not a 1.0 release,
but unlike commercial apps, many OSS apps spend many many years in 0.x.x
releases.

0

I think this is a endemic problem of OSS. Try to convince a large company standardized on true and tried product (expensive, so bloated to feel like you are buying something...) to migrate their biggest assets (their source code) on to a OSS product w/o "real" support (read no front company liable in case of problems), on its 0.x version!

Good luck.

Until they do, the only feedback they are going to get is from other OSS projects. I would hope they could have carved out a subset of functionality that they could deliver earlier or if the product as it stands is good enough just label it 1.0! I haven't been on products that didn't get shipped w/o known bugs.
I remember there was a thread on their developer list earlier last year about ways to speed up the 1.0 release. We know that did not go anywhere. Since then I have stopped looking at them. I got the message: it will be done when it is done ;-(

Jacques

0

Jacques Morel wrote:

I think this is a endemic problem of OSS. Try to convince a large company standardized on true and tried product (expensive, so bloated to feel like you are buying something...) to migrate their biggest assets (their source code) on to a OSS product w/o "real" support (read no front company liable in case of problems), on its 0.x version!


What front company exists for CVS? This is not a sarcastic question, I
don't honestly know.

I would hope they could have carved out a subset of functionality that they could deliver earlier or if the product as it stands is good enough just label it 1.0! I haven't been on products that didn't get shipped w/o known bugs.


Subversion is currently self-hosting. It can do the basics and a lot of
excellent non-basic stuff that CVS can't even dream of, but there are
still rough edges and missing required functionality that would make a
1.0 release which is a suitable replacement for CVS.

I got the message: it will be done when it is done ;-(


And what is wrong with that? Do you really want them to do a rush job on
a system to which you would potentially entrust your source code, your
livelihood? 90% of today's problems with software is because of rush
jobs -- inadaquate requirements analysis and unrealistic deadline demands.

Ciao,
Gordon


--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://java.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: 416-643-4846 | Fax: 416-594-1919

0

Even if you believe that Subversion is following the right path (I happen to agree with you that they are) -- the relevant point is that they are in alpha. All the talk of self-hosting aside, they are only providing repository compatibility across 1-2 minor releases, meaning that if you don't keep up you have a major headache on your hands. That's probably the most obvious problem, but there are more.

So, Open Source, the option is CVS -- which is kind of a stinky option once you've gotten comfortable with more advanced SCM products. Certainly I am extremely reluctant to consider using CVS on a project after having used Perforce for a while.

Personally I could care less what JetBrains uses internally, but I would like to see a stronger Perforce plugin. Hopefully I'll get time to put my own developer money where my mouth is by improving what exists today.

James

0

There are two efforts I've seen relating Java and Subversion. One is Java SVN -- basically a Swing GUI that uses the svn binaries to run SCM commands. No need for JNI here at all, it just does exec() calls (similar to P4Plugin if you're familiar with Perforce under IDEA).

There is a somewhat less mature effort trying to implement the Subversion library in Java. That's a much bigger nut to crack and I doubt we'll see too much forward progress there in the near future.

The first project could easily be adapted to integrate Subversion into IDEA via the VCS APIs I think.

James

0

Btw, that should have been P4Package there, not P4Plugin...

james

0

Please sign in to leave a comment.