Build 809 and the broken CVS integration

This new CVS integration looks promising, but it is totally broken. Adding directories and files beneath them does only work when importing. Adding toplevel dirs are not possible without reimport. It has no support for binary files. It also throws NPEs everywhere (earlier "external" version did same, but not very often).

I really think that IDEA needs decent CVS support. The new CVS integration is a good start, but I think that it should not have been released yet as it is totally lacking features and functionality and those features that are in place mostly don't work at all or do not work correctly (eg. it imports binary files as ascii).

13 comments

May be EAP of cvs integration aim is fill tracker with such comments as in your post.
And may be also Intellij guys need to figure how community imagine the new integration and how it's correlated with introduced one.

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I really think that IDEA needs decent CVS support.
The new CVS integration is a good start, but I think
that it should not have been released yet as it is
totally lacking features and functionality and those
features that are in place mostly don't work at all
or do not work correctly (eg. it imports binary files
as ascii).


Read the ALL CAPS DISCLAIMER on the EAP download page:

http://www.intellij.net/eap/products/idea/download.jsp

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Read the ALL CAPS DISCLAIMER on the EAP


I already had read that. So what?

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You guys are probably right about the disclaimer and the motivation of intellij putting the new CVS functionality out there.

However, there are people using IDEA and even Aurora to do day-to-day work. 807 works fine for me, but 809 is totally unusable. I don't mind that they add the new interface, but during the interim, why not leave the CVS config and CVS menu where they were.

They will significantly deter quality feedback if developers can't use the new build.

PS - I still didn't see the number one missing CVS function that I'm still using a separate CVS app for: tagging.

Vince

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However, there are people using IDEA and even Aurora
to do day-to-day work.

There are many people using IDEA for day-to-day work, but use Aurora same way is bad idea until 830 or near build at least(as for me). For experiment and bug reporting it's very good. What new features of Aurora you use in your day-to-day work???

>807 works fine for me, but 809 is totally unusable.
CVS is not only one part of IDEA.

I don't mind that they add
the new interface, but during the interim, why not
leave the CVS config and CVS menu where they were.

I agree, may be not rational, but IDEA configuration have so many options, that leaving menus etc. in its previous places are impossible and may be its step to introducing new options.

They will significantly deter quality feedback if
developers can't use the new build.

Very probaly


PS - I still didn't see the number one missing CVS
function that I'm still using a separate CVS app for:
tagging.

Find or fill new request for this feature and vote.

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There are many people using IDEA for day-to-day work,
but use Aurora same way is bad idea until 830 or near
build at least(as for me). For experiment and bug
reporting it's very good. What new features of Aurora
you use in your day-to-day work???


Well, if Aurora works then I'll use it. As soon as it doesn't then I'll dump it. Good or bad isn't really relevant.

The only new feature I've used so far is the JUnit integration. Very nice indeed, and I write a lot of tests on my code, so the integration is very valuable.


>807 works fine for me, but 809 is totally unusable.

CVS is not only one part of IDEA.


Well, CVS is only one part of IDEA (perhaps what you meant to say). But it is an entirely crucial integration piece. So clearly if CVS integration doesn't work in a specific release then I will not use that release. Your development may differ.

As a side note, the only way I can justify using Aurora builds at all is because ultimately my code is protected by CVS (and the backup of CVS). A crash of Aurora doesn't hurt me much. But if they mess up the CVS integration, then you're right....I will not be able to use and therefore provide feedback on Aurora. In that sense, CVS integration is VERY important.


PS - I still didn't see the number one missing CVS
function that I'm still using a separate CVS app

for:

tagging.

Find or fill new request for this feature and vote.


Done long ago. Still doesn't hurt to mention it.

Vince

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On Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:53:42 +0000, Aapo Laakkonen wrote:

I really think that IDEA needs decent CVS support. The new CVS integration
is a good start, but I think that it should not have been released yet as


But its NOT been released yet.... its EAP.

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On Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:04:40 +0000, Vince Marco wrote:

However, there are people using IDEA and even Aurora to do day-to-day
work. 807 works fine for me, but 809 is totally unusable. I don't mind
that they add the new interface, but during the interim, why not leave the
CVS config and CVS menu where they were.


So stick with 807 then. You don't HAVE to update to the latest bleeding
edge build all the time.

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Mark Derricutt wrote:

So stick with 807 then. You don't HAVE to update to the latest
bleeding edge build all the time.

Well yes, that's one way to look at it, but older builds have their problems
too, and if CVS support is not going to be feasibly usable for a while it
stops some people trying out the new features.

If I was JetBrains, I personally would be looking at retaining the old cvs
support running side by side; As the new cvs support is a plugin, it can be
easily removed. If they don't do this then they will risk having virtually
the whole cvs user base not bothering with eap, which is a lot of lost
feedback.

On Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:53:42 +0000, Aapo Laakkonen wrote:

I really think that IDEA needs decent CVS support. The new CVS integration
is a good start, but I think that it should not have been released yet as


I kind of agree that ideally this shouldn't have been rolled into public
builds yet, as it is really hampering some people's use of it. Sure there
are disclaimers, but I see those mainly covering unknown or unintentional
issues arising with the released eap versions; releasing something that they
know is too feature incomplete to be usable is not really what we'd expect
from JetBrains. Obviously they thought it was necessary for their own
reasons.

Saying all this, I still remain thankful that the eap programme exists, and
this is by no means a condemnation... I just wish I could use the new
version...





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What about intermediate "stable" releases?

JetBrains released 809 with a new CVS integration. Fine. We may report
bugs (if we can use it -- I'm unable to use 807 and 809) and
suggestions and they try to fix as much as possible bugs and release a
more stable 810 without major new features. If this module is
relative stable, they can move on to new features.

I believe, this would be the most useful approach, for JetBrains and
for us.

Tom

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On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 10:59:12 +0100, Nathan Brown wrote:

If I was JetBrains, I personally would be looking at retaining the old cvs
support running side by side; As the new cvs support is a plugin, it can
be easily removed. If they don't do this then they will risk having
virtually the whole cvs user base not bothering with eap, which is a lot
of lost feedback.


Depends - cvs seems to be working 'ok' on and off for the most part at
work, using straight pserver. For anything else, where I need ssh based
cvs, I can still use the command line, WinCVS, SmartCVS or any other
client.

Integration makes things nicer, doesn't make things impossible.

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What release runs proper on Unix system -- related to CVS integration? I remember several problems on 807, too.


Best regards,
Jens Meiert.

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Thomas Singer wrote:

What about intermediate "stable" releases?

JetBrains released 809 with a new CVS integration. Fine. We may report
bugs (if we can use it -- I'm unable to use 807 and 809) and
suggestions and they try to fix as much as possible bugs and release a
more stable 810 without major new features. If this module is
relative stable, they can move on to new features.

I believe, this would be the most useful approach, for JetBrains and
for us.


While it's a nice idea, I think it would be too difficult logistically.
After an EAP release, the JetBrains developers can't sit around
twiddling their thumbs waiting to see if we report any bugs before they
start doing any work on new features.

It's also not absolutely vital that we test and try out each and every
EAP release they make. I think it's perfectly acceptable to skip out a
few releases and then try it again to see if it's stabilied
sufficiently. They're not completely dependent on us for their testing
and feedback since I'm sure they have their own internal testers and
planned development schedule. As long as we do try to use the EAP
releases every now and report any problems we find.

What I'm trying to say is, let them do their thing their way and all
will work out well.

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://java.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: 416-643-4846 | Fax: 416-594-1919

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