GUI-Builder for WEB-Applications ????

Hi,

it is possible, that you develop a GUI-Builder for Web-Applications in
IDEA
(with templates or another similar)?

This would be just about the limit, the killer-feature ;)


Koev


19 comments


"Koev" <koev@inno-consult.com> wrote in message
news:3E783C4F.6C036A41@inno-consult.com...

Hi,

>

it is possible, that you develop a GUI-Builder for Web-Applications in
IDEA
(with templates or another similar)?


Please don't ;)

Use your resources to provide more useful features for programmers (as you
have done excellently so far).
For example, a hot-plugging debugger would be a real cool think.

-- Peter



0

What mean you by "more useful features"?

nowadays is the webbased application development more important and
much in demand.


"Peter Sch?fer" schrieb:

"Koev" <koev@inno-consult.com> wrote in message
news:3E783C4F.6C036A41@inno-consult.com...

Hi,

>

it is possible, that you develop a GUI-Builder for Web-Applications in
IDEA
(with templates or another similar)?

>

Please don't ;)

>

Use your resources to provide more useful features for programmers (as you
have done excellently so far).
For example, a hot-plugging debugger would be a real cool think.

>

-- Peter


--
Svetoslav Koev
Systementwicklung

Inno Consult GmbH
Comeniusstra?e 109
01309 Dresden

Telefon: +49 351 25796-13
Fax: +49 351 25796-24
http://www.inno-consult.com


0

>Use your resources to provide more useful features for programmers (as you
>have done excellently so far).

I agree. JAVA isn't just web applications. Features, that can be used
by all JAVA developers would be more useful.

Tom

0

Can anyone to allege that the webbased applications
more and more to spread?

Yes, "JAVA isn't just web applications" but JAVA are deployed today mainly
in webapps.
The time of the "fat-clients" is over (least of all by business apllications).

Thomas Singer schrieb:

>Use your resources to provide more useful features for programmers (as you
>have done excellently so far).

>

I agree. JAVA isn't just web applications. Features, that can be used
by all JAVA developers would be more useful.

>

Tom





0

What mean you by "more useful features"?

nowadays is the webbased application development more
important and
much in demand.


I know. But technologies for webapps are still so diverse.
I don't see how you can provide a GUI builder for all of them ?!
Besides, I don't like GUI builders, anyway ;)

I say, IDEA folks should concentrate on what they can do best: development tools.

0

Koev wrote:

Yes, "JAVA isn't just web applications" but JAVA are deployed today mainly
in webapps.
The time of the "fat-clients" is over (least of all by business applications).


My current project is a fat-client swing application.
I do it in java because I have to leverage our libraries, I do it in swing, because it's
important to be responsive and frankly I don't like SWT much.
So I don't agree with your assertion that "if there is an user interface it has to be
webapps".
In the end if the webapps covered everything, then IDEA itself wouldn't be using swing.

Regarding the proprietary technology comments posted by other people: my opinion is that
JetBrains are willing to take chances to compete in this area. There are certainly
drawbacks in the proposed solution, but I believe that the advantages of a clear and
usable implementation would outweigh them.

0

Dimiter,


In the end if the webapps covered everything, then IDEA itself wouldn't be using swing.


you interpreted something incorrect!
It is a question of interfaces for end-user, and not for developers.
However, the programmer need a tool for whose development.

When you develop only swing, can you to criticize other technology?




--
Svetoslav Koev


0

Koev wrote:

you interpreted something incorrect!
It is a question of interfaces for end-user, and not for developers.
However, the programmer need a tool for whose development.
When you develop only swing, can you to criticize other technology?


So do you say that the user never needs pro-active interfaces?
I think, I haven't said that I develop only swing, nor I did say anything bad about zny
other technology. There are different tools for different jobs.

What I did say is that JetBrains have currently decided to include a swing GUI builder
and I welcome that (if done propperly). If you did read the Eugene's posts, you'd see that
there's no framework limitation in the builder's architecture, so later it could be made
to support SWT, JSF, etc.

btw is there working implementation of JSF? (just curious)

regards,
Dimiter

PS: ???? ?? ?? ?? ???????? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?? ?? (56336327)

0

Peter,

see the following link.

http://java.sun.com/j2ee/javaserverfaces/

I know. But technologies for webapps are still so diverse.
I don't see how you can provide a GUI builder for all of them ?!
Besides, I don't like GUI builders, anyway ;)

>

I say, IDEA folks should concentrate on what they can do best: development tools.


--
Svetoslav Koev


0

>The time of the "fat-clients" is over (least of all by business apllications).

You might think so, but a lot of people (even users!) don't.
Why?
- web-applications often are unresponsive,
- web-applications look ugly,
- web-applications are very limited in the functionality and usability
(e.g., only primitive controls).

Don't start a desktop-application vs. web-application war now (we
already have one and this is serious enough).

Jetbrains have made a good job in supporting web-application
development in IDEA 3.0. But since I do not benefit from it, I want
that Jetbrains effort will concentrate on features, all JAVA
developers benefit from, not only web-application developers nor
desktop-application developers (BTW, I do not need a Swing builder).

Cheers,
Tom

0

Hi!

I can agree with most of the things you say but I beleave (after having
built good web-applications myself) that most of the bad web-applications is
due to lack of knowledge on how to build them and lack of time. A good
web-gui builder that not only generates e.g. html but also javascript etc
would help speed and improve this process...

My $0.02

/Lars-Fredrik


"Thomas Singer" <idea@regnis.de> wrote in message
news:h2ul7vkckhpr93t15hjhp6gl6spoj7d1sl@4ax.com...

>The time of the "fat-clients" is over (least of all by business

apllications).
>

You might think so, but a lot of people (even users!) don't.
Why?
- web-applications often are unresponsive,
- web-applications look ugly,
- web-applications are very limited in the functionality and usability
(e.g., only primitive controls).

>

Don't start a desktop-application vs. web-application war now (we
already have one and this is serious enough).

>

Jetbrains have made a good job in supporting web-application
development in IDEA 3.0. But since I do not benefit from it, I want
that Jetbrains effort will concentrate on features, all JAVA
developers benefit from, not only web-application developers nor
desktop-application developers (BTW, I do not need a Swing builder).

>

Cheers,
Tom



0

All I can say for now is that we are working on another product dramatically
simplifying server-side and web programming in general. More info coming in
the next months.

Eugene Belyaev, CTO
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Koev" <koev@inno-consult.com> wrote in message
news:3E7AFF29.ADBEBD1F@inno-consult.com...

Peter,

>

see the following link.

>

http://java.sun.com/j2ee/javaserverfaces/

>

I know. But technologies for webapps are still so diverse.
I don't see how you can provide a GUI builder for all of them ?!
Besides, I don't like GUI builders, anyway ;)

>

I say, IDEA folks should concentrate on what they can do best:

development tools.
>

--
Svetoslav Koev

>
>


0

I can agree with most of the things you say but I beleave (after having
built good web-applications myself) that most of the bad web-applications

is

due to lack of knowledge on how to build them and lack of time. A good
web-gui builder that not only generates e.g. html but also javascript etc
would help speed and improve this process...


For intensive manipulation interfaces [data entry, changeable
tree/table/graphs, etc], there's web interface that's worth more than
peanuts.

I have yet to see a web interface that is as responsive/feature enabled as a
good fat gui client.


0

All I can say for now is that we are working on
another product dramatically
simplifying server-side and web programming in
general. More info coming in
the next months.

Whew !!
Now you are making me curious ;)

0

Wow!

I'm rapt and wait patiently.

Respect for your work.

Three cheers and a tiger for JetBrains ;)



Eugene Belyaev schrieb:

>All I can say for now is that we are working on another product dramatically
>simplifying server-side and web programming in general. More info coming in
>the next months.
>
>Eugene Belyaev, CTO
>JetBrains, Inc
>http://www.intellij.com
>"Develop with pleasure!"

>

0

On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 13:53:45 +0100, Koev wrote:

I'm rapt and wait patiently.
Respect for your work.
Three cheers and a tiger for JetBrains ;)


Have any of you guys seen IntraWeb from AtoZSoftware?

The first version I saw ( which was shipped with Delphi 7 ) allowed you to
use the delphi gui editor to draw forms, which when the project was run (
embedded webserver, or module for isapi/apache ) everything got translated
to web standards. Looked kinda neat, they now have a java version....

http://www.atozedsoftware.com/intraweb/Intros/Java.html

Looks quite interesting.

0

Hi!

I must agree with you, but that does not mean that its impossible to build,
lets say, a good enough web-gui. Even fat-client-applications sometimes need
to provide the customer with a web-gui. In some of the applications we have
written the user cannot download and run a fat client (they are not allowed
to install web-start or any java plugin and the ms jvm is not good enough
for applets), this is very common in the banking industry.

The above said I dont think we should forget about help for building
web-guis...

Thanx
Lars-Fredrik Smedberg

"Carlos Costa e Silva" <carlos@keysoft.pt> wrote in message
news:b5fp4i$crn$1@is.intellij.net...

I can agree with most of the things you say but I beleave (after having
built good web-applications myself) that most of the bad

web-applications

is

due to lack of knowledge on how to build them and lack of time. A good
web-gui builder that not only generates e.g. html but also javascript

etc

would help speed and improve this process...

>

For intensive manipulation interfaces [data entry, changeable
tree/table/graphs, etc], there's web interface that's worth more than
peanuts.

>

I have yet to see a web interface that is as responsive/feature enabled as

a

good fat gui client.

>
>


0

Even fat-client-applications sometimes need to provide the customer with a

web-gui.

Of course. We (are about to) do that: fat client (already done) and web
client (being done).


0

Wiping the droole off my mouth. If IntelliJ is working on it, I am SURE it will be excellent. Bring it on, I'll use it... I don't care what it is LOL

0

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