[Aurora] 802 Just Not Usable For Me, Sorry

Well, I'd really like to try to use Aurora, and help report issues, but I
just can't use it in the state it's in for 802.

The biggies:

  • For my project, 695 starts with about 60M of memory used, and creeps up

to about 120M worst case after entropy sets in about 5-6 hours later. 802
starts with 90M of memory used, and quickly gets up to 180M after only 15
minutes. On the very first character typed, it jumps by 20M!

  • Maybe because of the memory, the performance degrades rapidly. I'm

getting 5-10 second pauses just after hitting a backspace key, and
everything is extremely sluggish.

  • The disk space usage for the system part of the data stored under my

profile (WinXP) is enormous. 695 uses 51M which is bad enough, but 802
uses an amazing 268M. I'm using a laptop at client site's and I just don't
have that much space to use up (sure, part of this is my problem and I need
to buy a larger disk, but five times more disk usage seems excessive).

  • The coloring of JSP pages is hosed. It's showing most of the page as

what seems to be bold comments (in my case they are bold and blue). It
makes the pages unreadable, or at least it slows me down to the point where
I can't effectively work on the page.

So, as I said, I'd really like to help with the EAP, and I'm willing to
take on some risk and deal with some things to use the EAP, but I also have
to get work done and I can't work around 802. Perhaps you should have done
a bit more QA on 802 before putting it up? I'll try again when 803 comes
out, if it looks like some of these issues are improved.

Regards,
Paul
-



Paul Hodgetts -- President, Principal Consultant
Agile Logic -- www.agilelogic.com
Consulting, Coaching, Training -- On-Site & Out-Sourced Development
Java, J2EE, C++, OOA/D -- Agile Methods/XP/Scrum, Use Cases, UI/IA

9 comments
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Oh come on. EAP is just that. Early Access PREVIEW. It's the first build out, and you're already demanding more QA? Living on the cutting edge does involve getting cut now and then. If you DO use eap, then file bugs, instead of saying 'sorry, it sucks for me, you guys should do better!'

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  • For my project, 695 starts with about 60M of memory used, and creeps up

to about 120M worst case after entropy sets in about 5-6 hours later. 802
starts with 90M of memory used, and quickly gets up to 180M after only 15
minutes. On the very first character typed, it jumps by 20M!


We will work on this.

>

  • Maybe because of the memory, the performance degrades rapidly. I'm

getting 5-10 second pauses just after hitting a backspace key, and
everything is extremely sluggish.


Yes, looks like this can be caused by the garnage collector. BTW, what is
the maximum heap size set?

>

  • The disk space usage for the system part of the data stored under my

profile (WinXP) is enormous. 695 uses 51M which is bad enough, but 802
uses an amazing 268M. I'm using a laptop at client site's and I just

don't

have that much space to use up (sure, part of this is my problem and I

need

to buy a larger disk, but five times more disk usage seems excessive).


The size of data stored in the system directory mostly depends on size of
your project(s) and libraries. Anyone else consider this to be a serious
problem?

>

  • The coloring of JSP pages is hosed. It's showing most of the page as

what seems to be bold comments (in my case they are bold and blue). It
makes the pages unreadable, or at least it slows me down to the point

where

I can't effectively work on the page.


Seems to be a bug. Please submit such stuff into the tracker.

>

So, as I said, I'd really like to help with the EAP, and I'm willing to
take on some risk and deal with some things to use the EAP, but I also

have

to get work done and I can't work around 802. Perhaps you should have

done

a bit more QA on 802 before putting it up? I'll try again when 803 comes
out, if it looks like some of these issues are improved.


EAP builds are not releases. It might not be suitable for you to work on
regular basis (but might be). If we would have done all the necessary QA
before releasing the first EAP build then it will become the released
version (while many community members would like to try EAP builds BEFORE
the release).
Despite of the above, your feedback is very important for us and will help
us to fix the issues and make EAP builds more stable. Earlier EAP builds are
normally less stable than later ones.

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Paul Hodgetts" <phodgetts@agilelogic.com> wrote in message
news:nhai6vocilgurc76dva1dik7fudhqe7fuk@4ax.com...

Well, I'd really like to try to use Aurora, and help report issues, but I
just can't use it in the state it's in for 802.

>

The biggies:

>

  • For my project, 695 starts with about 60M of memory used, and creeps up

to about 120M worst case after entropy sets in about 5-6 hours later. 802
starts with 90M of memory used, and quickly gets up to 180M after only 15
minutes. On the very first character typed, it jumps by 20M!

>

  • Maybe because of the memory, the performance degrades rapidly. I'm

getting 5-10 second pauses just after hitting a backspace key, and
everything is extremely sluggish.

>

  • The disk space usage for the system part of the data stored under my

profile (WinXP) is enormous. 695 uses 51M which is bad enough, but 802
uses an amazing 268M. I'm using a laptop at client site's and I just

don't

have that much space to use up (sure, part of this is my problem and I

need

to buy a larger disk, but five times more disk usage seems excessive).

>

  • The coloring of JSP pages is hosed. It's showing most of the page as

what seems to be bold comments (in my case they are bold and blue). It
makes the pages unreadable, or at least it slows me down to the point

where

I can't effectively work on the page.

>

So, as I said, I'd really like to help with the EAP, and I'm willing to
take on some risk and deal with some things to use the EAP, but I also

have

to get work done and I can't work around 802. Perhaps you should have

done

a bit more QA on 802 before putting it up? I'll try again when 803 comes
out, if it looks like some of these issues are improved.

>

Regards,
Paul
-----
Paul Hodgetts -- President, Principal Consultant
Agile Logic -- www.agilelogic.com
Consulting, Coaching, Training -- On-Site & Out-Sourced Development
Java, J2EE, C++, OOA/D -- Agile Methods/XP/Scrum, Use Cases, UI/IA

>


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"Valentin Kipiatkov" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote:

  • Maybe because of the memory, the performance degrades rapidly. I'm

getting 5-10 second pauses just after hitting a backspace key, and
everything is extremely sluggish.


Yes, looks like this can be caused by the garnage collector. BTW, what is
the maximum heap size set?


-Xms64m -Xmx256m
IDEA showed it was currently using 182M out of 228M allocated.

  • The disk space usage for the system part of the data stored under my

profile (WinXP) is enormous. 695 uses 51M which is bad enough, but 802
uses an amazing 268M.


The size of data stored in the system directory mostly depends on size of
your project(s) and libraries. Anyone else consider this to be a serious
problem?


It's the same project converted from 695 to 802, so that's why I thought a
5 times disk usage increase seemed unusual. I guess it's only a problem
when disk space is at a premium, such as on my laptop. Time for a drive
upgrade.

Something that might help is to have settings for controlling the caching
and indexing and whatever else is contributing to that size (I know there
is a command line option for turning off caching). In that way, maybe I
can fine tune it for my limited drive space, while others can let it use
what it needs to optimize its operation. Is this worth a feature request?

  • The coloring of JSP pages is hosed. It's showing most of the page as

what seems to be bold comments (in my case they are bold and blue). It
makes the pages unreadable, or at least it slows me down to the point

where

I can't effectively work on the page.


Seems to be a bug. Please submit such stuff into the tracker.


I was going to, but someone else beat me to it. Issue 10122. A speed
issue was also reported under 10131, but if you think my speed issue is
different I'll submit a different issue report. I'm not sure what to do
with the memory or disk issues, that's why I asked first before submitting.

EAP builds are not releases. It might not be suitable for you to work on
regular basis (but might be). If we would have done all the necessary QA
before releasing the first EAP build then it will become the released
version (while many community members would like to try EAP builds BEFORE
the release).


OK, my comment was harsher than I intended, my apologies. I understand
there are risks with EAPs and I accept those, and I'm willing to work
around things within reason. I was just disappointed that I could not use
802 at all and had to back down to 695.

Despite of the above, your feedback is very important for us and will help
us to fix the issues and make EAP builds more stable. Earlier EAP builds are
normally less stable than later ones.


My intention is to help, not just whine and complain. I'll try again with
803.

Thanks,
Paul

0
Comment actions Permalink

Something that might help is to have settings for controlling the caching
and indexing and whatever else is contributing to that size (I know there
is a command line option for turning off caching). In that way, maybe I
can fine tune it for my limited drive space, while others can let it use
what it needs to optimize its operation. Is this worth a feature request?


I'm not sure if we would be able to effectively tune this. And considering
the fact that a few more hundred megabytes of disk space should not be a big
problem for the majority of users it won't get any high priority anyway...
We agree that the current memory usage and overall performance of Aurora are
not very good but the disk space usage does not seem to be a big problem.
(We might start to think the opposite if many users would complain.)

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Paul Hodgetts" <phodgetts@agilelogic.com> wrote in message
news:trom6v8b0vh36819g028435ln623vollgk@4ax.com...

"Valentin Kipiatkov" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote:

>

  • Maybe because of the memory, the performance degrades rapidly. I'm

getting 5-10 second pauses just after hitting a backspace key, and
everything is extremely sluggish.

>

Yes, looks like this can be caused by the garnage collector. BTW, what

is

the maximum heap size set?

>

-Xms64m -Xmx256m
IDEA showed it was currently using 182M out of 228M allocated.

>

  • The disk space usage for the system part of the data stored under my

profile (WinXP) is enormous. 695 uses 51M which is bad enough, but

802

uses an amazing 268M.

>

The size of data stored in the system directory mostly depends on size

of

your project(s) and libraries. Anyone else consider this to be a serious
problem?

>

It's the same project converted from 695 to 802, so that's why I thought a
5 times disk usage increase seemed unusual. I guess it's only a problem
when disk space is at a premium, such as on my laptop. Time for a drive
upgrade.

>

Something that might help is to have settings for controlling the caching
and indexing and whatever else is contributing to that size (I know there
is a command line option for turning off caching). In that way, maybe I
can fine tune it for my limited drive space, while others can let it use
what it needs to optimize its operation. Is this worth a feature request?

>

  • The coloring of JSP pages is hosed. It's showing most of the page

as

what seems to be bold comments (in my case they are bold and blue).

It

makes the pages unreadable, or at least it slows me down to the point

where

I can't effectively work on the page.

>

Seems to be a bug. Please submit such stuff into the tracker.

>

I was going to, but someone else beat me to it. Issue 10122. A speed
issue was also reported under 10131, but if you think my speed issue is
different I'll submit a different issue report. I'm not sure what to do
with the memory or disk issues, that's why I asked first before

submitting.
>

EAP builds are not releases. It might not be suitable for you to work on
regular basis (but might be). If we would have done all the necessary QA
before releasing the first EAP build then it will become the released
version (while many community members would like to try EAP builds

BEFORE

the release).

>

OK, my comment was harsher than I intended, my apologies. I understand
there are risks with EAPs and I accept those, and I'm willing to work
around things within reason. I was just disappointed that I could not use
802 at all and had to back down to 695.

>

Despite of the above, your feedback is very important for us and will

help

us to fix the issues and make EAP builds more stable. Earlier EAP builds

are

normally less stable than later ones.

>

My intention is to help, not just whine and complain. I'll try again with
803.

>

Thanks,
Paul

>


0
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Yes, looks like this can be caused by the garnage

collector. BTW, what is

the maximum heap size set?


-Xms64m -Xmx256m

I always had better experiences with a constant amount of memory given to IDEA. It feels faster when the VM is not forced to allocate more memory as IDEA eats more. I also think that in a setting like yours the VM always strives to go bag to the starting level in memory usage which results in more time cycles used by the Garbage Collector.

If you are lucky enough and have a computer with 1 GB or so of RAM a setting like
-Xms516m -Xmx516m
might help.

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Also keep in mind that IDEA is not the only process in memory. I work on
Win32 platforms and in order to get acceptable performance all the time I
had to reduce its maximum memory to 384 in order to have IDEA not swap like
crazy. I have 512MB of physical memory. It pays to be a good process citizen
and not gobles up everything. I can only guess that Windows is not very
smart with the paging of big processes.

Jacques
"Robert F. Beeger" <jiveadmin@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:33006544.1047228812506.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost...

Yes, looks like this can be caused by the garnage

collector. BTW, what is

the maximum heap size set?

>

-Xms64m -Xmx256m

I always had better experiences with a constant amount of memory given to

IDEA. It feels faster when the VM is not forced to allocate more memory as
IDEA eats more. I also think that in a setting like yours the VM always
strives to go bag to the starting level in memory usage which results in
more time cycles used by the Garbage Collector.
>

If you are lucky enough and have a computer with 1 GB or so of RAM a

setting like

-Xms516m -Xmx516m
might help.



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Valentin Kipiatkov wrote:

The size of data stored in the system directory mostly depends on size of
your project(s) and libraries. Anyone else consider this to be a serious
problem?


I've got about 330MB under my system directory. But then I've got 4
different versions of the same project from 4 different branches in use
at the moment, and the project has a large number of jars some of which
are as big as 8MB. So I can see how my system directory is so large.

What could be nice is for IDEA to provide a tool (in IDE Options maybe)
for managing the system directory. It would display a list of the
projects that have system data (jars, etc.) stored and then allow the
user to click a button to delete a project from the system because they
are no longer going to use it.

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://java.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: 416-643-4846 | Fax: 416-594-1919

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Gordon Tyler wrote:

I've got about 330MB under my system directory.


I should note that this is the system directory for build 695. I have
not been able to use build 802 yet with a "safe" project (one that can I
break without repercussions ;). However, I may try it with a copy of one
of my work projects soon, when I'm feeling brave (or bored ;).

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://java.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: 416-643-4846 | Fax: 416-594-1919

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Unless your application really has fixed memory requirements (not the case for IDEA) or you really have lots of free memory around (not my case), fixing the VM size is not a good idea.

There are lots of other parameters besides minimum and maximum heap size, try fiddling with them a bit. For example, I use -XX:MinHeapFreeRatio=20 and -XX:MaxFreeHeapRation=20 so the VM is kept just a bit larger then I need it to be (I'm short on RAM). You could experiment with other parameters as well.

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