IDEA vs IBM Eclipse


Well someone in this forum just mentioned that IntelliJ IDEA's competitor is
Eclipse, so I decided to open a new thread and talk about it.

Vagif Hagverdiyev mentioned

The real competition for IDEA is Eclipse.
IBM is doing an amazing job, and Eclipse is free.


First of all I really don't think that IntelliJ IDEA's competitor is
Eclipse!

Currently Eclipse is just plain simple Java IDE.
Now in order to power up Eclipse, u have to use 3rd party plugins.
And those plugins are packed with tons of bugs, well most of them are just
in alpha and beta versions.
Since the plugins are free, the developers who build the plugins don't even
pay attention to users complaining about the bugs.

But when it comes to features, Eclipse is just nowhere close to IntelliJ
IDEA.
There are countless number of features in IntelliJ IDEA that I can mention
that is not present in Eclipse, and most of the features that Eclipse has,
are already built inside IntelliJ IDEA. And I think that is what we are all
looking for: "an IDE with lots of good features".

For example, IntelliJ IDEA is a perfect IDE for J2EE web programming,
whereas Eclipse doesn't have anything built inside it that supports J2EE web
programming.

One of the points that Eclipse can run over IntelliJ IDEA is that its memory
management is damn good, and it is a very fast IDE.
Another cool thing about Eclipse is that it is an open source project, and
it has a very large community.

Saumendra

Developing in Pleasure ;)





23 comments
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Since the plugins are free, the developers who build
the plugins don't even
pay attention to users complaining about the bugs.


Indeed ? So how do you explain all the successful open-source projects that we all take for granted ? Ant, for one ?

Developers do expect to be rewarded for their efforts, but rewards are not always monetary.

Some develop with pleasure, others develop FOR pleasure.

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First, I have downloaded eclipse several times, installed it once, and
haven't launched it yet :)

Since the plugins are free, the developers who build the plugins don't

even

pay attention to users complaining about the bugs.


Including all the developers in the same bag is over simplification.

There are good ones and bad ones. It's the same as everywhere else.
I personally know a lot of free/opensource products with very good support.

Also, there aren't that many $paid$ software products with the support level
we see with IDEA .

One of the points that Eclipse can run over IntelliJ IDEA is that its

memory

management is damn good, and it is a very fast IDE.


Obviously that's because it doesn't do almost nothing as you say. As it is,
I think that IDEA uses very little memory for the quantity of information it
mantains in memory.

If/when eclipse gets to have the same features as idea, I believe it'll use
much more memory if only because the plugins will duplicate many things
instead of having a central memory repository for everything.

Carlos


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Saumendra Poddar wrote

First of all I really don't think that IntelliJ IDEA's competitor is
Eclipse!


Sure it is !
Otherwise you would not see so many people over the internet asking Eclipse
vs IDEA questions,
you would not see people evaluating IDEA to move from Eclipse (not from
other IDE),
you would not see people asking IDEA developers "Hey, I had such and such
feature in Eclipse, how about IDEA ?"

And those plugins are packed with tons of bugs, well most of them are just
in alpha and beta versions.


I'm using Tomcat plugin and Spindle (Tapestry) plugin. Both are free, very
good, stable. I did not have any "bug" problems with them.

Since the plugins are free, the developers who build the plugins don't

even

pay attention to users complaining about the bugs.


I heard it somewhere else. Are you trying to use M$ arguments ?
Beware You are on java land, and it is pretty much land of "free"
software.

For example, IntelliJ IDEA is a perfect IDE for J2EE web programming,
whereas Eclipse doesn't have anything built inside it that supports J2EE

web

programming.


I'm working with Tomcat and Eclipse. I don't know if you consider this J2EE
or not.
For me Tomcat is and application server.
And for lot's of other developers too.

Now I'm trying to move to IDEA. Last builds are very good (stable, memory
problems solved etc).
But it happens only now. For a long time, after each evaluation of IDEA, I
had to return to my lovely Eclipse.

I'm completely agree that IDEA is superior to any other IDE.
Just don't think it does not have competition. Competition in this field is
very strong. Recently, 2 quite big players were out (WebGain and
TogetherSoft). I don't want Intellij to go same way. But ignoring
competition will eventualy lead to such ending.


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Vagif,

Let me reverse your question

"Hey, I had such and such feature in IDEA, how about Eclipse ?"


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I'm now compelled to jump in here. I've got experience with both IDE's -- and IDEA has become my favorite.

Eclipse has incredible potential, but many of the IDE 'niceties' that exist in IDEA (like the ability to map keys to anything you want, for example -- one of my BIG beefs) simply don't exist in the Eclipse IDE.

Dan

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And what does it change ? They are still competitors, Aren't they ?
The fact that IDEA has lot's of features, not available in Eclipse, does not
mean that everybody will choose IDEA.
There are many valid reasons to choose Eclipse. It's free. There are lot's
of specific plugins available for Eclipse. For example Spindle - pugin for
developers using Tapestry web framework. I know lot's of people who is using
Eclipse despite the fact they know about IDEA and like it much more. Look at
Tapestry mailing list and you will understand why.
The real power of Eclipse is plugins and open IDE API.
IDEA's IDE API just matures and there are not many developers aware of it.
Compare it to huge open source community that Eclipse has. There are lot's
of free and commercial plugins developed by lot's of companies or developers
for Eclipse. Much more than for IDEA.
Do not underestimate such a serious competitor. It's power is not in its
features but plugins.

"Saumendra Poddar" <greencap@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aqa2jm$jn6$1@is.intellij.net...

Vagif,

>

Let me reverse your question

>

"Hey, I had such and such feature in IDEA, how about Eclipse ?"

>
>


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If you check plans for eclipse 2.1 (http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/development/eclipse_project_plan_2_1.html) they mention cutomizable key mapping. That also has been one of my biggest complaints with eclipse.

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Now I'm trying to move to IDEA. Last builds are very good (stable, memory
problems solved etc).
But it happens only now. For a long time, after each evaluation of IDEA, I
had to return to my lovely Eclipse.


Well, don't forget that you've been trying development builds. The released
versions usually don't contain that many bugs regarding memory consumption
or performance issues. As you would realize, the memory and performance get
profiled and optimized when the feature set is frozen. And this usually
happens just before the release.

Eugene

"Vagif Hagverdiyev" <vhagverdiyev@syncata.com> wrote in message
news:aq9tvi$dvn$1@is.intellij.net...
>

Saumendra Poddar wrote

First of all I really don't think that IntelliJ IDEA's competitor is
Eclipse!

>

Sure it is !
Otherwise you would not see so many people over the internet asking

Eclipse

vs IDEA questions,
you would not see people evaluating IDEA to move from Eclipse (not from
other IDE),
you would not see people asking IDEA developers "Hey, I had such and such
feature in Eclipse, how about IDEA ?"

>

And those plugins are packed with tons of bugs, well most of them are

just

in alpha and beta versions.

>

I'm using Tomcat plugin and Spindle (Tapestry) plugin. Both are free, very
good, stable. I did not have any "bug" problems with them.

>

Since the plugins are free, the developers who build the plugins don't

even

pay attention to users complaining about the bugs.

>

I heard it somewhere else. Are you trying to use M$ arguments ?
Beware You are on java land, and it is pretty much land of "free"
software.

>

For example, IntelliJ IDEA is a perfect IDE for J2EE web programming,
whereas Eclipse doesn't have anything built inside it that supports J2EE

web

programming.

>

I'm working with Tomcat and Eclipse. I don't know if you consider this

J2EE

or not.
For me Tomcat is and application server.
And for lot's of other developers too.

>

Now I'm trying to move to IDEA. Last builds are very good (stable, memory
problems solved etc).
But it happens only now. For a long time, after each evaluation of IDEA, I
had to return to my lovely Eclipse.

>

I'm completely agree that IDEA is superior to any other IDE.
Just don't think it does not have competition. Competition in this field

is

very strong. Recently, 2 quite big players were out (WebGain and
TogetherSoft). I don't want Intellij to go same way. But ignoring
competition will eventualy lead to such ending.

>
>


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You are doing an amazing job and IDEA is an outstanding product.
That's why I'm here.

"Eugene Belyaev" <beg@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:aqbgog$jn$1@is.intellij.net...

Now I'm trying to move to IDEA. Last builds are very good (stable,

memory

problems solved etc).
But it happens only now. For a long time, after each evaluation of IDEA,

I

had to return to my lovely Eclipse.

>

Well, don't forget that you've been trying development builds. The

released

versions usually don't contain that many bugs regarding memory consumption
or performance issues. As you would realize, the memory and performance

get

profiled and optimized when the feature set is frozen. And this usually
happens just before the release.

>

Eugene

>

"Vagif Hagverdiyev" <vhagverdiyev@syncata.com> wrote in message
news:aq9tvi$dvn$1@is.intellij.net...
>

Saumendra Poddar wrote

First of all I really don't think that IntelliJ IDEA's competitor is
Eclipse!

>

Sure it is !
Otherwise you would not see so many people over the internet asking

Eclipse

vs IDEA questions,
you would not see people evaluating IDEA to move from Eclipse (not from
other IDE),
you would not see people asking IDEA developers "Hey, I had such and

such

feature in Eclipse, how about IDEA ?"

>

And those plugins are packed with tons of bugs, well most of them are

just

in alpha and beta versions.

>

I'm using Tomcat plugin and Spindle (Tapestry) plugin. Both are free,

very

good, stable. I did not have any "bug" problems with them.

>

Since the plugins are free, the developers who build the plugins don't

even

pay attention to users complaining about the bugs.

>

I heard it somewhere else. Are you trying to use M$ arguments ?
Beware You are on java land, and it is pretty much land of "free"
software.

>

For example, IntelliJ IDEA is a perfect IDE for J2EE web programming,
whereas Eclipse doesn't have anything built inside it that supports

J2EE

web

programming.

>

I'm working with Tomcat and Eclipse. I don't know if you consider this

J2EE

or not.
For me Tomcat is and application server.
And for lot's of other developers too.

>

Now I'm trying to move to IDEA. Last builds are very good (stable,

memory

problems solved etc).
But it happens only now. For a long time, after each evaluation of IDEA,

I

had to return to my lovely Eclipse.

>

I'm completely agree that IDEA is superior to any other IDE.
Just don't think it does not have competition. Competition in this field

is

very strong. Recently, 2 quite big players were out (WebGain and
TogetherSoft). I don't want Intellij to go same way. But ignoring
competition will eventualy lead to such ending.

>
>

>
>


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The real power of Eclipse is plugins and open IDE API


If the real power of Eclipse is plugins and open IDE API, then Eclipse
should be compared with JEdit cause that is what JEdit does too.
Eclipse should not be compared with IDEA cause IDEA is so feature packed,
whereas Eclipse is just bare naked IDE.






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Hi,

At our company some people prefer using Eclipse over IDEA is because IDEA
doesn't support hot swap -debugging, which makes eg. JSP-development faster.


"Saumendra Poddar" <greencap@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aq9ira$sph$1@is.intellij.net...
>

Well someone in this forum just mentioned that IntelliJ IDEA's competitor

is

Eclipse, so I decided to open a new thread and talk about it.

>

Vagif Hagverdiyev mentioned

The real competition for IDEA is Eclipse.
IBM is doing an amazing job, and Eclipse is free.

>

First of all I really don't think that IntelliJ IDEA's competitor is
Eclipse!

>

Currently Eclipse is just plain simple Java IDE.
Now in order to power up Eclipse, u have to use 3rd party plugins.
And those plugins are packed with tons of bugs, well most of them are just
in alpha and beta versions.
Since the plugins are free, the developers who build the plugins don't

even

pay attention to users complaining about the bugs.

>

But when it comes to features, Eclipse is just nowhere close to IntelliJ
IDEA.
There are countless number of features in IntelliJ IDEA that I can mention
that is not present in Eclipse, and most of the features that Eclipse has,
are already built inside IntelliJ IDEA. And I think that is what we are

all

looking for: "an IDE with lots of good features".

>

For example, IntelliJ IDEA is a perfect IDE for J2EE web programming,
whereas Eclipse doesn't have anything built inside it that supports J2EE

web

programming.

>

One of the points that Eclipse can run over IntelliJ IDEA is that its

memory

management is damn good, and it is a very fast IDE.
Another cool thing about Eclipse is that it is an open source project, and
it has a very large community.

>

Saumendra

>

Developing in Pleasure ;)

>
>
>
>
>


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If the real power of Eclipse is plugins and open
IDE API, then Eclipse
should be compared with JEdit cause that is what
JEdit does too.
Eclipse should not be compared with IDEA cause IDEA
is so feature packed,
whereas Eclipse is just bare naked IDE.


...and the British motorcycle industry is the best in the world. The Japanese will never be able to match it...

It's that sort of dismissal of the opposition that leads to extinction.

Vince.

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Support for HotSwap will be added soon.
(see SCR 2950)

--

Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
JetBrains, Inc, http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Kai Virkki" <kai.virkki@helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:aqd69h$f2l$1@is.intellij.net...

Hi,

>

At our company some people prefer using Eclipse over IDEA is because IDEA
doesn't support hot swap -debugging, which makes eg. JSP-development

faster.
>
>

"Saumendra Poddar" <greencap@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aq9ira$sph$1@is.intellij.net...
>

Well someone in this forum just mentioned that IntelliJ IDEA's

competitor

is

Eclipse, so I decided to open a new thread and talk about it.

>

Vagif Hagverdiyev mentioned

The real competition for IDEA is Eclipse.
IBM is doing an amazing job, and Eclipse is free.

>

First of all I really don't think that IntelliJ IDEA's competitor is
Eclipse!

>

Currently Eclipse is just plain simple Java IDE.
Now in order to power up Eclipse, u have to use 3rd party plugins.
And those plugins are packed with tons of bugs, well most of them are

just

in alpha and beta versions.
Since the plugins are free, the developers who build the plugins don't

even

pay attention to users complaining about the bugs.

>

But when it comes to features, Eclipse is just nowhere close to IntelliJ
IDEA.
There are countless number of features in IntelliJ IDEA that I can

mention

that is not present in Eclipse, and most of the features that Eclipse

has,

are already built inside IntelliJ IDEA. And I think that is what we are

all

looking for: "an IDE with lots of good features".

>

For example, IntelliJ IDEA is a perfect IDE for J2EE web programming,
whereas Eclipse doesn't have anything built inside it that supports J2EE

web

programming.

>

One of the points that Eclipse can run over IntelliJ IDEA is that its

memory

management is damn good, and it is a very fast IDE.
Another cool thing about Eclipse is that it is an open source project,

and

it has a very large community.

>

Saumendra

>

Developing in Pleasure ;)

>
>
>
>
>

>
>


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Support for HotSwap will be added soon.

>

How soon do u mean by "soon" ?


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All I can say now is that it is a high priority request.
Feature list for the next version is not formed yet, thus I cannot say what
particular features will be implemented.

--

Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
JetBrains, Inc, http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Nick" <nick_l@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:aqe2s4$t1s$1@is.intellij.net...
>

Support for HotSwap will be added soon.

>

>

How soon do u mean by "soon" ?

>
>


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Hi All,

I use IDEA and I love it. It really does make developing a pleasure.

But... The documentation is abysmal. Typical techie - you already know the answer so don't ask - and you're too busy programming so don't tell :)

I am relatively knew to java programming. I keep hearing tantalizing glimpses of great features in IDEA - e.g. great support for JSP development; great support for J2EE development - but never any documentation. Where is the documentation; tutorials; how-to articles. Heck, there isn't even a single place that lists all the shortcut keys, let alone a tutorial on learning and using the refactoring features.

Why don't we see more of "Creating Struts Applications With IDEA is a snap" articles in JDJ or on serverside or oreilly.

Please help your own product succeed. You are neglecting a significant portion of your market - not the super techie folks who have used your product for ages and tell YOU what features to implemenent in the forums - there is ME - a relative newcomer to your product who loves it and wants to master it and needs help.

IDEA is great software. The other IDE's I've looked out from Sun and Borland do not match Eclipse's conceptual elegance.

Please help make it more accessible to more programmers by focusing more resources on documentation.

Thanks for your great work,
Phil




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2 Saumendra Poddar.
How about this particular case ?
This is the real life example, how single feature in Eclipse, or any other
IDE, outweights everything you have in IDEA.
Are you still gonna say there's no competition for IDEA ?


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I'd have to agree with you. In fact, I've gotten in the habit of 'clipping' articles or tutorials when I find good documentation resources. IDEA is positioned to become one of the leading Java development tools (if not THE leading development tool) -- Jetbrains simply needs to understand this and exploit it.

A good start (until the great documentation you described is actually written) might be:

http://www.orionserver.com/tools/idea/ - a tutorial on using IDEA for JSP development (includes screenshots, etc).

Also, the 'Overview' document listed on the download page for the EAP is a good start by Jetbrains down the path of better docs. It's available here: http://www.intellij.net/eap/products/idea/download.jsp

Dan

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This appears to be an interesting thread so I thought I'd jump in. I've also used both products and I have to say that they both have their strong points. Eclipse doesn't even come close to the features, usability and configurability of IDEA, and it's my primary development tool of choice. However some nice stuff is coming out of the eclipse project, most notably SWT, which proves that Java CAN thrive on the client. For JDK 1.5 I'd like to see Sun toss out AWT and Swing, and adopt SWT into the core for client side development (hell will freeze over first, I know!) But in the final analysis, IDEA is poised to be the leading IDE for Java development. I introduced IDEA to some colleagues that do heavy Swing/RAD development and they noted that a GUI builder in IDEA would make JBuilder obsolete overnight. Great product!

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now that you have mentioned SWT, if there a possibility for IDEA to adapt SWT instead of SWING? idea 3 beta is crawling on my pIII 900Mhz 128Mb.

the competitor of IDEA is Omnicore's Codeguide. watch it ;) ive used both btw.

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I am sad to say that the single feature of Eclipse that does outweigh
everything in IDEA for me is the price. I am unable to work but I experiment
a lot with Java for my own entertainment and sanity, I did purchase IDEA 2.5
at the "personal" price and I have been using the test versions of 3.0. I
believe the product is streets ahead of anything else available (I have used
or tested most Java IDEs), it has some fantastic up-and-coming plugins and,
unlike Eclipse, does not get bogged down in it's own technicalicalities but
allows code-oriented programmers like myself to experiment and produce.

For me, IDEA is dead, long live IDEA.
Simon

"Vagif Hagverdiyev" <vhagverdiyev@syncata.com> wrote in message
news:aqe69e$30l$1@is.intellij.net...

2 Saumendra Poddar.
How about this particular case ?
This is the real life example, how single feature in Eclipse, or any other
IDE, outweights everything you have in IDEA.
Are you still gonna say there's no competition for IDEA ?

>
>


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I hope you mean
For me, Eclipse is dead, long live IDEA!

Right ?

Simon
For me, IDEA is dead, long live IDEA.

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I've just come accross a news article (http://news.com.com/2117-1001-966072.html) that states that Oracle have now pitched in behind the Eclipse project.

Vince.

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