4.5 to 5.0 Upgrade Price?

I purchased IDEA 4.5 before the offer for a version 5.0 licence. Have JetBrains announced any prices yet? Specifically, the price for the licence upgrade from 4.5 to 5.0?

I'm sure it's been asked before, but my searching of the forums gave no insight - is there an announced release date for version 5.0 yet?

Thanks for any tips.

28 comments
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Hello Tony,

The price for the licence upgrade from v 4.5 or earlier to v 5.0 is $ 299.

The estimated release date for v 5.0 is June-July, 2005.


Best regards,

Natalie Yaremych



"Tony Morris" <no_mail@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:13851485.1117403626206.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost...
>I purchased IDEA 4.5 before the offer for a version 5.0 licence. Have
>JetBrains announced any prices yet? Specifically, the price for the licence
>upgrade from 4.5 to 5.0?
>

I'm sure it's been asked before, but my searching of the forums gave no
insight - is there an announced release date for version 5.0 yet?

>

Thanks for any tips.



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I spent $250 in 1/05 and now to get the new release i have to spend another $300.

Does not seem fair to me.

Eclipse is not as good, but its faster on my mac, has working SVN support and patch functionality + FREE.

If there is no price break for personal license I will have to switch (even thou intelliJ rocks)

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I can't understand u! I paid at the end of 11/2004 499$ for IntelliJ 4.5 and I'm not disappointed that I have to pay for the 5.x release. I know/work /w IntelliJ since the 2.x release.

Take a look at Borland. How much cost a Borland licence? How often does Borland release a new version? Can u get bugfixed version (minor release) from Borland?

Eclipse is nice, but far away from IntelliJ. I have to work with Eclipse, but I can't understand people and manager how save few hundred dollar, impose developer to work /w a free tool like eclipse and the developer will be much faster /w InetlliJ! Think, that big blue (IBM) is behind Eclipse!

I ordered a smart subscription for 450$ for the next 3 (!!!) major releases. THAT IS MORE THAN FAIR!

best regards
Steffen

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U dont have to be soooo loud about ur opinion.

Like I said IntelliJ is the best choice.
I dont use Borland since 2001. I checked JBuilderX and its fucked up.

Eclipse is a great tool. I worked on it for 3 yrs and have no issues. It has a lot more usefull plug ins and some functionality that will only get in v 5 of intelliJ. Also,
since one of my dev platforms is Mac, I could not use IntelliJ until MacOSX 10.4 (idea was VERY slow) and eclipse ran just fine.

I did not know about smart sbscription. $450 for next 3 versions of intelliJ is a GOOD price. I will definatly check this out.

Thanks.

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ok, u're right. my answer was a little bit to loud.

I like Eclipse, but it's really far away from IntelliJ and the eclipse developer don't work for nothing. ;)

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I'm with you. I paid $250 in january of 04 for a personal license, forking out another $300 seems a bit pricey to me. Yes, the product is great. I love it and have also been using since 2.x. In fact, I convinced my ex-employer standardize on it and buy 25 licenses.

I really think that there needs to be another upgrade path besides paying more than my original license fee from a year and a half ago, to get an upgrade. Product loyalty, has a value but it also comes at a price.

I'm most likely going to stay on 4.5.4 until it no longer functions and then switch over to eclipse. I've only heard good things about it.

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In article <24593344.1118419867349.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net>,
Bill Andrew <wwalien@yahoo.com> wrote:

I really think that there needs to be another upgrade path besides paying
more than my original license fee from a year and a half ago, to get an
upgrade. Product loyalty, has a value but it also comes at a price.


For what it is worth, there have been upgrade paths in the past for
personal licenses. It would not surprise me if they were time limited,
as was the chance to get personal licenses in the first place, but I
suspect they will be there.

I'm most likely going to stay on 4.5.4 until it no longer functions and then
switch over to eclipse. I've only heard good things about it.


I have used it. It has its good points, but I like IDEA better in the
main. It tends to be a bit on the heavy side, in that dialogs contain a
staggering number of options, but you can do a lot from just one dialog.
I also find the claims of SWT speed specious, in that it is no more
responsive than Swing on my Mac, and I cannot really see a speed
difference on the windows box I try every now and then.

That said, it does have some big names working on it, so it does get
some interesting improvements. I am glad it is in the market, as I
expect it keeps JetBrains on their toes, and means that there are
several different groups working on refactoning editors. Two separate
groups are far more likely to try out more things in the space than
either one would alone.

Were it easy to generate project files for eclipse without writing a
plugin, I might be less lukewarm, but I develop Java, not Eclipse.
Writing a plugin to create a bloody project file seems like a lot of
work for little benefit.

Scott

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The office I work in just purchased a load of 4.5 licenses in early/mid March; does that mean no free upgrade to 5.0??? That doesn't exactly give me a warm fuzzy feeling. There really needs to be some consideration given to purchases made so close to a major release like that.

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purchases made so close to a major release like that.

Exactly. As per http://www.jetbrains.com any 4.5 purchases made after May
1st 2005 qualify for free upgrade to 5.0.
Whatever deadline is set there always will be those who buy "one day before",
right?

-


Maxim Shafirov
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) schrieb:
>> purchases made so close to a major release like that.


Exactly. As per http://www.jetbrains.com any 4.5 purchases made after
May 1st 2005 qualify for free upgrade to 5.0.
Whatever deadline is set there always will be those who buy "one day
before", right?


I always thought that a licence included updates for one year (or rather
the next version).
Wasn't that the case before ?
I bought my last upgrade late last year. Buying a new licence every
half a year really makes me move to eclipse.

mfg
Carsten

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Carsten Schäfer wrote:

Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) schrieb:

>>> purchases made so close to a major release like that.
>>
>>
>> Exactly. As per http://www.jetbrains.com any 4.5 purchases made after
>> May 1st 2005 qualify for free upgrade to 5.0.
>> Whatever deadline is set there always will be those who buy "one day
>> before", right?
>>


I always thought that a licence included updates for one year (or rather
the next version).
Wasn't that the case before ?
I bought my last upgrade late last year. Buying a new licence every
half a year really makes me move to eclipse.


The 'one year upgrade' is from older versions. It was changed for 3.0 or
4.0, to 'minor versions are free, major requires upgrade at 40%
discount'. So a single-version upgrade is only $299.

You can also buy the upgrade subscription plan for 2 major-version
upgrades for $450 (see http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/ 'Maintenance
Plans'). Since we release a major version approx. every year (not every
half a year), that's a whopping $225 per year, which I would expect is
peanuts for most professional developers. You probably spend more on
coffee or other caffienated beverages.

--
Rob Harwood
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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Hello Carsten,

I understand your point, however I believe that in perspective of a long
term use of the software a one time investment can not be the only measure
of cost of the software ownership. Can you agree with me? If so, let's make
a simple calculation.



Just imagine User A who bought v 4.5 say in October 2004 for $ 499 and will
update to v 5.0 for $ 299 in July. His total investments of $ 798 cover all
minor updates up to the next major release. Normally, we come with a new
major release every 1.2- 1.5 years (or approx. 14 month), so:



$ 798 : 24 months of the SW ownership (from Oct 2004 through estimated Nov
2006) = approx. $ 33 per month.



Now let's imagine User B who bought v 4.5 in June 2005 for $ 499 including
free upgrade to v 4.5:



$ 499 : 15 months of the SW owner ship (from June 2005 through estimated Nov
2006) = approx. $ 33 per month.



Does User B vs User A? Hm, does not look so... right? In fact, than longer
you use IntelliJ IDEA, than less it costs you per month. Another point comes
to return of investments: doesn't IntelliJ IDEA return the $ 33 per month
investments to a Java developer?



Regarding our upgrade policy:



Normally, we make 5-6 minor releases per year and they are available for
free. Our major release cycle is more that 1 year as mentioned above, and if
we applied the annual maintenance policy (that normally requires annual
renewal for extra maintenance fee) instead of upgrades on "as needed" basis,
at least 50% of the IDEA users would have no chance to benefit from their
paid maintenance. Does not seem to be be fair, right?



Best regards,
Natalie Yaremych


"Carsten Schäfer" <ca_schaefer@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:d9gcer$npg$1@is.intellij.net...

Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) schrieb:

>>> purchases made so close to a major release like that.
>>
>> Exactly. As per http://www.jetbrains.com any 4.5 purchases made after May
>> 1st 2005 qualify for free upgrade to 5.0.
>> Whatever deadline is set there always will be those who buy "one day
>> before", right?
>>
>

I always thought that a licence included updates for one year (or rather
the next version).
Wasn't that the case before ?
I bought my last upgrade late last year. Buying a new licence every half
a year really makes me move to eclipse.

>

mfg
Carsten



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>doesn't IntelliJ IDEA return the $ 33 per month investments to a Java developer?

>


"33$/months"
is a lot easier to sell to your PHB than
"499$ for the first-time license."

Thanks for stating the obvious. It's much needed sometimes.


Alain

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Alain Ravet schrieb:

>> doesn't IntelliJ IDEA return the $ 33 per month investments to a Java
>> developer?
>>
>>


"33$/months"
is a lot easier to sell to your PHB than
"499$ for the first-time license."

Thanks for stating the obvious. It's much needed sometimes.


If all your teammante uses eclispe it's 400$/year to 0$/year.
In this case it's difficult to argue.

mfg
Carsten

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Carsten Schäfer wrote:

If all your teammante uses eclispe it's 400$/year to 0$/year.
In this case it's difficult to argue.


On the other hand, I look at it like this: Using Eclipse it takes me X
times longer than using IDEA to complete my work. I can't say for
certain how much longer because I've never been able to stand using
Eclipse for more than a few hours while I tried to beat the thing into
submission and actually let me work on my project.

A frustrated, unhappy developer is an unproductive developer.

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://www.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: (416) 933-5046 | Fax: (416) 933-5001

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Gordon Tyler schrieb:

Carsten Schäfer wrote:

>> If all your teammante uses eclispe it's 400$/year to 0$/year.
>> In this case it's difficult to argue.


On the other hand, I look at it like this: Using Eclipse it takes me X
times longer than using IDEA to complete my work. I can't say for
certain how much longer because I've never been able to stand using
Eclipse for more than a few hours while I tried to beat the thing into
submission and actually let me work on my project.

A frustrated, unhappy developer is an unproductive developer.


I've the same opinion...
but my teammates not.
They don't say that it takes them longer and not always the
IDEA-developer is more productive than the eclipse-developer.
The difference between developers is more than the ide.

mfg
Carsten

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Carsten Schäfer wrote:

If all your teammante uses eclispe it's 400$/year to 0$/year.
In this case it's difficult to argue.




For the boss, part of the 33$/months are deductible, so let's say the
real cost is 22$/months/developer.
Per day, it's 2$/developper.
2$ per day !!
For bigger working comfort/pleasure, increased efficiency, higher
productivity, cleaner code, more solid code, etc...
That's cheap.


Alain

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Carsten

.. not always the IDEA-developer is more productive than the
eclipse-developer.





Where did you notice that the average developer is less productive with
IDEA than he would be with Eclipse?
In what kind of tasks?

Alain

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Alain Ravet schrieb:

Carsten

>> .. not always the IDEA-developer is more productive than the
>> eclipse-developer.





Where did you notice that the average developer is less productive with
IDEA than he would be with Eclipse?
In what kind of tasks?


A good developer will always be more productive than a bad/average
developer even with a inferior IDE.

And there are tasks you can do better with eclipse.
I18N for example.

mfg
Carsten

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Carsten Schäfer wrote:
>> Where did you notice that the average developer is less productive
>> with IDEA than he would be with Eclipse?
>> In what kind of tasks?


A good developer will always be more productive than a bad/average
developer even with a inferior IDE.


That's not comparing IDEs, it's comparing developers.

And there are tasks you can do better with eclipse.
I18N for example.


There will always be some small subset of tasks that some other IDE does
better. It's the overall effect that's important. Do you drive a car
because you can change its tires faster, or because overall it gets you
to your destination faster and cheaper?

If all your teammante uses eclispe it's 400$/year to 0$/year.
In this case it's difficult to argue.


I don't think it's difficult to argue: "IDEA makes me more than
$400/year more productive." All it takes is about 10 hours of time saved
for it to be worth it. In one year, that's nothing.

--
Rob Harwood
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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>> .. not always the IDEA-developer is more productive than the
>> eclipse-developer.
>>

Where did you notice that the average developer is less productive
with IDEA than he would be with Eclipse?
In what kind of tasks?


The comparison should be between the same developer, not a mythical average
developer. If you personally are even 5% more effective with IDEA over Eclipse,
the price is trivial. I'm an independent contractor right now, and I own
my own IDEA licesnse specifically becuase I know that I'm much more productive
with it (even though I usually have to build and maintain my own project
files), so I am happier, and in turn my clients are happier, and I can charge
a higher rate that more than covers IDEA's cost.

Though, if that argument isn't enough, there's also the argument that IDEA's
inspections and code analysis can dramatically reduce the bug rate in code.
I can't tell you how many potential NPE's and unused assignments alone I've
found in code produced by other developers (even good ones) in other IDE's
-- these are blaringly obvious once you see them, but often impossible to
see w/o IDEA unless you actually run into their effects. These simple problems
are usually found quickly during testing, but even a simple bug usually costs
at least 15 minutes (and usually much, much more). If you only catch one
bug a day using IDEA, you have more than paid for its $2 daily cost.

Granted, there are other tools that can do similar analysis, but my experience
is that developers rarely use them unless its done automatically, and when
they're run automatically, they produce so much output that no one wants
to bother to read it. Being able to see such errors as you type is therefore
invaluable (or at least worth far more than $2/day!). And, these are just
the most basic of IDEA's capabilities -- more advanced inspections, refactoring,
structural search, all the stuff in IG, etc. are a power-user's dream. Eclipse
doesn't even come close!

Anyway, that's my $0.02.

--Mike


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Rob Harwood (JetBrains) schrieb:

Carsten Schäfer wrote:

>>> Where did you notice that the average developer is less productive
>>> with IDEA than he would be with Eclipse?
>>> In what kind of tasks?
>>
>>
>> A good developer will always be more productive than a bad/average
>> developer even with a inferior IDE.


That's not comparing IDEs, it's comparing developers.


That's all i want to say.
A boss will never compare IDEs, he will compare developers.
And normally there are no developers that really uses two IDEs, so you
never can make a real unbiased comparison.
And the developers that uses eclipse do say that eclipse is more
productive.
And every developer will say this about his IDE.
I always say this about IDEA and most of the userer of this newsgroups
will say this.

mfg
Carsten

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mkwerle_no_spam@nospam.yahoo.com wrote:

Anyway, that's my $0.02.


Great feedback, Mike, thanks! But considering that a minute of your time
is probably worth at least $1, then I imagine that post was more like
$5.00. ;)

--
Rob Harwood
Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

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I18N for example.


I18N support is planned for this EAP, at least it was.

Tom

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The estimated release date for v 5.0 is June-July, 2005.


Is this still the plan?

In the past, I could usually use the EAP for my main work when
it was 1-2 months before the release, maybe with a few caveats
( i.e. don't do this or that) .

I find the current EAP 3378 so painful to use I cannot use it
for anything because the Editor is so sluggish. Doing any kind
of web development is extremely painful. The only bright spot for
me is the Intentions/Inspections.


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>> The estimated release date for v 5.0 is June-July, 2005.
>>

Is this still the plan?

In the past, I could usually use the EAP for my main work when it was
1-2 months before the release, maybe with a few caveats ( i.e. don't
do this or that) .

I find the current EAP 3378 so painful to use I cannot use it
for anything because the Editor is so sluggish. Doing any kind
of web development is extremely painful. The only bright spot for
me is the Intentions/Inspections.


Take a look at jetbrains.intellij.eap -- there were major JSP changes in
5.0; note in particular that your HTML, CSS, and Javascript are inspected.
They just finished getting the parsing (mostly) right and are now working
on performance, according to one of the JetBrains developers, but the performance
improvements haven't been included in a public build, yet.

--Mike


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I find the current EAP 3378 so painful to use I cannot use it
for anything because the Editor is so sluggish.


Strange, works fine here. But maybe you switched to EAP 3378 from IDEA 4.5.
I used (quite) all previous EAP builds, so I might have been accustomed with
its slowness. ;)

Tom

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