Why do you want to ruin everything with new UI?
The existing UI is awesome, why are you messing with it and ruining your product?
I like the old textual panels, they are compact and descriptive, I can organize them to my liking. I don't like these large icons and I do not understand what do they mean. I need to click and guess to find a panel I want. I don't like the amount of space these panels take.
I don't like that hamburger popup menu. Who gave you idea that a smartphone style popup menu is a good idea for a desktop product?
I'm sure that third-party plugin developers won't be dedicating much effort to own icons with consistent design, so all these panels will look like a crap zoo of ugly icons of different shapes and sizes.
I've been using JetBrains products since 2004 (ReSharper) and 2009 (IDEA) and you're destroying everything.
Find another way to occupy yourself, put your hands off the existing UI, no one asked you to do it, so just don't do it. Don't fix something that isn't broken.
If you want it to look like VS Code, then I will rather cancel my subscription and switch to VS Code. At least they have a larger community for the same iconish UI.
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"Programmers need easy and immediate access to information and common functions. Programmers do not need to waste their time hovering over inscrutable icons hoping a tooltip will show up. That is a huge waste of time."
Couldn't agree more. Real coders value every second and suffer in pain any deviation of attention or unnecessary wait as insignificant as it may look to, let's say, less productive coders because they know the projected cost of focus loss and hate to waste time in an unproductive manner.
The menu deployment on hover and the preference of icons over text is one of those deviations. Whoever thought that's a good idea certainly isn't someone that values or even know about what some of us call productivity around here(and the kinds of reasons why we chose a JB IDE back in the day) and so will never understand our complains. It's a different league.
Now, when you add to it info like 2000 bugs “fixed on feedback” and “innovation” means look like VS-Code look and feel as measures of success, that's scary.
Brant Very well put, thank you.
Brant your manifest shakes my heart. This is exactly what we are doing: working with the most suitable instruments to feed our family in the end. If the instruments become worse, it means we have worsen our ability to feed our family or at least to spend less time with it. And this is the main pain point of this thread - we all understand that we will need to spend more time on things, which needed less time before for crazy reason of some manager wants to copy vs code. Awful
Brant Very well said. In essence we had a great UI that is being destroyed only because it's ‘old’. There is no reason a UI couldn't last 100 years, even 1000 years, if there's no reason to upgrade it. Perhaps it will take several generations of UI designers until this is finally realized (or perhaps UI design can be a part time job that once done, a full time position is no longer needed). As the old saying goes: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I'd like to take my hat off to Brant . Well said, greatly explained. But i seriously doubt that JB will listen or even understand it.
Also i've found the main reasons why i literally hate new ui:
in fact:
That show how actual technical level (=2k bugs) and management level (=new “innovation” UI) are low in JetBrains. I'd like to know the full story how it's degraded over the years and why previous CEO quit the company.
From the poll in Java community on LinkedIn:
24 that's 19.3% of people who is using JB products. Sure everyone can lie in their stats even JB.
Plugin stats:
Yes I do, no I'm not kidding. Company's decide to move on/change for better or worse and simply won't maintain 2 overlapping products (in their eyes) for free. It's not uncommon to have to pay extra for maintenance of legacy products if they are critical to ones operations. Something like Linux extended life cycle support or Windows extended security updates (ESU) comes to mind first.
Don't get me wrong, I think they absolutely messed up the way they brought this. They could have made the new UI default and the classic UI a bundled plugin instead of straight up removing classic UI and letting you search how to get it back. They made their intend very clear with that move. But like someone in this thread said before, the moment “new ui” was an option I knew it was a matter of time before the old UI would go away. Unfortunately I've yet to see any competitor product come close to the debugger capabilities of the Jetbrains products or I'd start transitioning slowly. Until then if I can literally buy time for competitors to catch up while I can keep working, I'd happily do so.
Did we just lose the ability to turn this UI monstrosity off? It's got to be a sign that a UI team has run out of work to do when they start Microsof Wording their UI, abandoning the agreed upon UI design language (and all sense) of an OS for their own unique, obtuse, hide everything UI that is supposed to make everything better but really is just is fork to the head of the 99% that don't want to learn all of the quirks of some unique UI that offers no tangible benefits or deal with the inevitable drop in performance and responsiveness.
Ok, so here we are now, no classic ui option anymore. I've tried to put up with the new VS code like ui for a couple of months now and it still sux. Although the run configuration popup is better, everything else is worse. I liked the commit dialog, the commit tab kind of works but it is in no way an improvement. So much more clicking around, obscure icons and although you can add commands to the toolbar it just looks clunky. You have to hover over those obscure icons to see what they do, eh…..
This is no good, all to try to appeal to people who are allergic to paying for a quality product anyway.
Sad
Nothing deterministic here, of course. Everybody has a past. But when you look at the profile of the formerly “main dev” now CEO, the numbers in skill validations are… we'll, let's just say you'll notice :): https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirill-skrygan-7b86073a/details/skills/
Spoiler: MS build, .NET, Visual Studio(this one the winner by far)
This new UI is unusable. I tried it for two weeks, but it flatly requires more time to do the same tasks, even after I got used to it. Things that used to be readily available are now hidden behind two clicks; why is “evaluate expression,” one of *the most useful* debugging tools you offer, hidden in a sub-menu.
I can say that if the old UI plugin starts having issues, then I will not be keeping my subscription.
This is a product for professionals working on desktops, so why are you making it look like a mobile-first web design? Minimalism is not a virtue in productivity product.
I am also going to take this time to voice my grievances about the LLM spyware now bundled in the product. Please move that to a plugin that can be removed. I have long used you as a model of a good company, but this last year has started to make me regret my words. At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if perpetual licenses were phased out in a year or two.
Reading the comments here and for the plugin and just understanding how many great people use this product. The only funny thing in this whole situation is that JB seems to be surprised (or just reacting inadequately) by the fact that people loved their product and its unique style for what it were. They literally had no idea that they created the best IDE masterpiece, where people “develop with pleasure”. “U don't know what you've got till it's gone” - exactly about the current situation.
Ivan, you raise a good point. I think I want to be clear and positive: I loved the old UI. It was perfect. Never once did I think “wow I wish they'd change this.” Jetbrains removed the friction of development and I want that frictionless workflow back. They already created perfection and I will keep my subscription until I pass on if they just keep that perfection.
@Jetbrains new UI designers - you should think about it
Vity Jetbrains NewUI looking like this right now….
william.goyette no, it's this:
More like this:
On hover, if you are lucky, something that may interest you happens
The new UI does break many workflows. Working on a set of larger projects is now way harder.
JetBrains, are you trying to shake off large companies as your customers and attract small studios with tiny projects? Then go ahead and break the workflows for the former. The latter will not switch from VScode anyway, they think it's the best possible and consider the new IDEA UI to be a blanket covering a bloated IDE.
Hi, Ondrej! Thank you for your feedback. Would you mind to elaborate a bit what is the issue with big projects specifically for you? Thank you in advance.
Andrey Dernov will JB publish kind of official statement about old UI and new UI in the current situation?
I.e. how the company wastes thousand of hours.. how the company made 2000 bugs and resolved them.. how company kicking out longterm clients… ?
After 18 years of using Idea I finally quit and did not prolong my subscription. I switched to Eclipse. Unfortunately it's not on par with what Idea was once before new UI, but at the same time developers of Eclipse are honest and dedicated people who are committed to their real users (and not the virtual ones in the heads of high management).
Thx Jetbrains for all the time together, I hope you will reach the goals you are trying to pursue with these controversial moves and do not loose yourself in the process.
I think everything is said and there is enough feedback everywhere.
Already canceled my subscription.
Another cancellation here from a decades-long user. Sad to see such a good tool intentionally ruined.
Here's the overall statement nikitasius
"We trust that giving people the freedom to do what they want brings out the best in them. And every problem that arises should be viewed as a new challenge, an opportunity to improve, a chance to innovate.
With over 1800 people, we are a community of smart, driven, and dedicated individuals. We encourage inventiveness and treasure individuality in every role. Together we turn passion and ability into meaningful solutions helping developers change the world for the better."
So many things wrong in there (from a business and technology development standpoint) that I don't even want to elaborate.
Let's just say I'd rather pay them to satisfy my needs than to pursue the above. Focus lost.
Gabriel Moreno Brc there are also “ 20+ years of history ”, they can end their history by 2024.
“Hi, Ondrej! Thank you for your feedback. Would you mind to elaborate a bit what is the issue with big projects specifically for you? Thank you in advance.”
Amazing. I would expect Ondrej is too busy doing his own job and living his own life like to spend time working for free for these guys.
Seriously, beyond new UI or whatever, what surfaces here is JB lost its mission and the new one apparently is to focus on their own developers dreams, desires and feelings , regardless of whether they are aligned with sensible business goals or not. I may get back to check on JB state of things once/if the current C3O gets ever f red.
“there are also “ 20+ years of history ”, they can end their history by 2024.”
Well that happened before with other wonderful stuff. Like with Borland (ahhh, was there ever anything better than good old days Borland?).
I guess that's how it is. Sooner or later the world forces you to find out what the next great thing is.
Jetbrains: “We find ways to shoot ourselves in the foot for no reason”
> Like with Borland
I did Borland code on C under DOS in.. 2000 guess and in 2002-2004 did Borland builder under windows (that was vcl code). Was lot of fun & good stuff. Hopefully i rejected opportunity to go into M$ MFC and in 2005 i switched on Java & took IntellijIdea instead of eclipse. Good old times.. Damn, C feels like the most beautiful experience i ever had.
Turbo Pascal 6 like 1992. then Pascal with objects (Turbo Pascal 7), Turbo Vision then Delphi, Interbase, then JBuilder and C++ Builder… Then after going through the Eclipse and NetBeans path, moved to IntelliJ Idea back in the day in part because the UI looked familiar to me because of my previous exerience with JBuilder , lol.
Unfortunately for me "I didn't reject the opportunity" and did a awful lot of MS C++ (including MFC) as well. But hey, is those awful experiences (lots of VS Code usage as well more recently) that make you capable of comparing and knowing why things like old Borland tools or IntelliJ were so great, while they lasted.