What if there are no graphic artists? When we have a new prototype, I get to code the application (even if it is mock-ups). I would rather be able to quickly DnD some code to make the forms/screens. Then if the project proceeds to the next step, I can easily add more code to the background.
If not, I'm developing these mock-ups with IntelliJ by coding HTML, etc. by hand. In the end JSF will make my life easier when I create views, rather they be for a funded project or just a quick prototype.
Take a look at the JBuilder demo. Their I/F is clunky, but it does work. The VF I/F is VERY sweet, but they are will not commit to JSF support.
Shiny toys are pretty, but sometimes they do help.
Patrik Andersson wrote:
>Norris, > >I think you misinterpreted me. My point is that graphics artists create views as photoshop .psd files and might generate html files from them. Tops. I - being a/the java developer - write the jsp pages and use taglibs as I see fit. And that's also the reason (I know, my point is already across, this is getting old) that, imho, makes JSF dumb. > >That type of user interface tool is good for making money as a tool vendor since such tools tend to look very good from a manager perspective. They're going to want to spend money on shiny toys that look like time-savers. > >Personally I know webb-app development now. I don't need more tools for that particular part of creating applications. There's got to be an end to this search for the silver web-app creating bullet. It's a non-trivial problem domain. > >I really like how IDEA isn't following that usual Supports Product Y train. You get products that support a zillion other products, but they aren't really usable anyway because the editor or some other totally central feature blows. IDEA helps me in every place (I can think of) I need to do what I need my way! If I wanted shoddy wizards that do half the work in a flashy animated way I'd create them myself. > >I'm not arguing against having lots of tool support, but I don't want time wasted adding "dumb" support for a zillion tools. "Painting" web-apps is.. dumb, just like "painting" whole desktop apps is dumb. > >All that rantage aside, I do want intelligent code sense features for CSS, Javascript, etc, I've wanted that for a long time. Those are useful features that help in the task that javadevelopers do anyway. No new new bullshit revolutionary best-thing-since-sliced-bread draw-your-pages JSF.
What if there are no graphic artists? When we have a new prototype, I
get to code the application (even if it is mock-ups). I would rather be
able to quickly DnD some code to make the forms/screens. Then if the
project proceeds to the next step, I can easily add more code to the
background.
If not, I'm developing these mock-ups with IntelliJ by coding HTML, etc.
by hand. In the end JSF will make my life easier when I create views,
rather they be for a funded project or just a quick prototype.
Take a look at the JBuilder demo. Their I/F is clunky, but it does
work. The VF I/F is VERY sweet, but they are will not commit to JSF
support.
Shiny toys are pretty, but sometimes they do help.
Patrik Andersson wrote:
>Norris,
>
>I think you misinterpreted me. My point is that graphics artists create views as photoshop .psd files and might generate html files from them. Tops. I - being a/the java developer - write the jsp pages and use taglibs as I see fit. And that's also the reason (I know, my point is already across, this is getting old) that, imho, makes JSF dumb.
>
>That type of user interface tool is good for making money as a tool vendor since such tools tend to look very good from a manager perspective. They're going to want to spend money on shiny toys that look like time-savers.
>
>Personally I know webb-app development now. I don't need more tools for that particular part of creating applications. There's got to be an end to this search for the silver web-app creating bullet. It's a non-trivial problem domain.
>
>I really like how IDEA isn't following that usual Supports Product Y train. You get products that support a zillion other products, but they aren't really usable anyway because the editor or some other totally central feature blows. IDEA helps me in every place (I can think of) I need to do what I need my way! If I wanted shoddy wizards that do half the work in a flashy animated way I'd create them myself.
>
>I'm not arguing against having lots of tool support, but I don't want time wasted adding "dumb" support for a zillion tools. "Painting" web-apps is.. dumb, just like "painting" whole desktop apps is dumb.
>
>All that rantage aside, I do want intelligent code sense features for CSS, Javascript, etc, I've wanted that for a long time. Those are useful features that help in the task that javadevelopers do anyway. No new new bullshit revolutionary best-thing-since-sliced-bread draw-your-pages JSF.
>
I chatted with Eugene Belyaev, the CTO, and he told me that Idea 5 will be developed with Perforce.
-Jason