What about Aspect/J support?
It seems the Pallada release does not have Aspect/J support planned. Did I miss something or has this been postponed even further or completely dropped?
Grateful for any info.
Cheers,
Jon
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"Struts Console is ok[...]"
Is it ok to the point where you can do projects with it? If so, that's great. If not, why don't you guys bother the creators of Struts Console and make them/participate to improve its integration into IDEA?
I think that improving an existing solution (Struts Console) makes much more sense than to reimplement the same thing over and over again with different UIs. Instead, focusing on new value-adds is essential for a product to survive.
IDEA is a great product, that's why we're here. But it's also a great infrastructure for extensions. I'd really hate to see the JetBrains spend their time integrating products when plugin developers can cover this.
My impression is that we do need more Eclipse-think here.
The JetBrains cannot cover all requests that might come up from any individual. They would be smart to keep IDEA as lightweight as possible. We, the programmers, would benefit from a stable code base and the fact that IDEA would not contain 60% of stuff that is useless to 70% of our projects.
I don't want another MS Word!
No problem .... I should've checked myself.
But I still believe the solution is a better plug-in model, rather than heaving huge chunks of functionality into the IDEA, that no-one will use.
But in the big wide world outsie this forum, do you really think that more developers are using Aspect/J than JSP?
Whoa! Hold on a sec! .... :)
Having now had a look at the voter numbers, it seems that 'JSP support' covers a whole multitude of features that has split the voter numbers.
Support JSP reformat code - 60 voters
Support Javascript in HTML/JSP - 31 voters
Support JSP 2.0 - 22 voters
Support JSP expression language - 21 voters
... that's 134 votes on the first page of results alone.
So I'd still say that JSP support tops Aspect/J support. Which is hardly surprising since there are more JSP developers than AspectJ developers outside this website.
However, I think better modularity is the solution.
do you think 2% for JSP reformat is larger?
Funny to use as a derisive example the best product in its class.
As I said before, the JSP vote is split into several different requests, which only makes it look smaller than it really is:
Support JSP reformat code - 60 voters
Support Javascript in HTML/JSP - 31 voters
Support JSP 2.0 - 22 voters
Support JSP expression language - 21 voters
I think there is much broader support for improved JSP support than Aspect/J support.
Funny to use as a derisive example the best product in its class.
.. and on average, how much of Word's functionality gets used? Probably about 20% at most.
... and how many people use MS-Word to write code?
Not many; probably because it is too large for the task. Packing features in left right and centre doesn't make a product better.
]]>
Especially because a serious test in the German c't (www.heise.de/ct)
has proven, that even after more than 10 years of continues development
the Word developers never got it working right for any documentation
(containing images) larger than 10 or 20 pages. I don't want to know how
much people lost their nerves with the diploma work using Word.
</OT>
Tom
Rayz wrote:
I'd be interested to know how many of those voters are the same people who
have put a few votes towards each of those bugs. My point is that you can't
just add those numbers up: there could be anywhere between 60 and 134
distinct voters in there.
Another point is that you're equating a vote for any single one of those
features with a vote for broad-brush JSP improvements. I think that's
reading more into the figures than is actually there.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you should be careful of making
that sort of assumption without some meaningful figures to back it up.
Not directly relevant to the above, but at my company we're just starting to
use Aspects in some of our projects. I wonder if that's just us, or if it's
more of a general trend?
Vil.
--
Vilya Harvey
vilya.harvey@digitalsteps.com / digital steps /
(W) +44 (0)1483 469 480
(M) +44 (0)7816 678 457 http://www.digitalsteps.com/
>>I'd be interested to know how many of those voters are the same people who
have put a few votes towards each of those bugs. My point is that you can't
just add those numbers up: there could be anywhere between 60 and 134
distinct voters in there.
Another point is that you're equating a vote for any single one of those
features with a vote for broad-brush JSP improvements. I think that's
reading more into the figures than is actually there. <<
The problem has been the voting system here, makes this very difficult to gauge, but I'm going to stand by what I said originally. Even if you go out of this forum, do you really think that more Java developers are working with Aspects than JSP? A quick shufty round the newsgroups seems to show that this isn't the case.
>> Not directly relevant to the above, but at my company we're just starting to
use Aspects in some of our projects. I wonder if that's just us, or if it's
more of a general trend? <<
As you would say; I don't think ypour particular experience proves 'a general trend'.
I have voted for several of those features.
FWIW, I know of no developer in my city who is using aspects (even if
they are using JBoss), but I know of 3 different companies that are
dipping their toes into the Tomcat 5 pond. We will be the fourth.
Norris Shelton
Sun Certified Java Programmer
Rayz wrote:
>>>I'd be interested to know how many of those voters are the same people who
>>>
>>>
>have put a few votes towards each of those bugs. My point is that you can't
>just add those numbers up: there could be anywhere between 60 and 134
>distinct voters in there.
>
>Another point is that you're equating a vote for any single one of those
>features with a vote for broad-brush JSP improvements. I think that's
>reading more into the figures than is actually there. <<
>
>The problem has been the voting system here, makes this very difficult to gauge, but I'm going to stand by what I said originally. Even if you go out of this forum, do you really think that more Java developers are working with Aspects than JSP? A quick shufty round the newsgroups seems to show that this isn't the case.
>
>
>
>>>Not directly relevant to the above, but at my company we're just starting to
>>>
>>>
>use Aspects in some of our projects. I wonder if that's just us, or if it's
>more of a general trend? <<
>
>As you would say; I don't think ypour particular experience proves 'a general trend'.
>
>
>
Rayz wrote:
Like I said, I don't disagree with you. I just thought your use of those
figures was incorrect and was trying to point out the flaws. It's just the
natural pedant in me taking over - sorry. :)
>>>Not directly relevant to the above, but at my company we're just starting to
Exactly. I was more just wondering out loud, whether my experience here is
an isolated occurrence or something that others are seeing as well. I guess
you don't have the same thing happening at your work? What about others
reading this? It's off-topic for this thread, I guess; I'm just curious.
Cheers,
Vil.
--
Vilya Harvey
vilya.harvey@digitalsteps.com / digital steps /
(W) +44 (0)1483 469 480
(M) +44 (0)7816 678 457 http://www.digitalsteps.com/
Might be an interesting thread to start on its own, either in this forum or another. I think it'll be buried otherwise...
--pete
Well, it's not an IDE. And packing features in left and right makes a product neither better nor worse. I agree with the sentiment -- that I don't want Idea to get (more) bloated -- but I wouldn't dream of using any word processor aside from Word so I find it an ironic example of why bloat is bad.
As for the "20% at most" stat, I agree. But keep in mind that the 20% that people use is probably a different 20% for everyone.
And on a completely tangental note, the macro functionality in Word (and other office products) is superb and is exactly what I had hoped (in vain) Idea would try to emulate. It is also an example of the 80% of Word that most people don't use but that I couldn't possibly live without.