Poll: Do You use EAPs for daily production (real) work

This question stems from the 908 fiasco and an interesting comment I read
from Evgeny: "First, it's not the first time people claim that "using EAP
for the real work is not the way it was intended for". Really ? So what was
it intended for ? Playing at home ? Developing open-source ?..."

He's got a point. Only by using it for real work do we get to pound on it
hard and truly dig up the nasty bugs or usability issues that would never be
discovered at home playing with it on a Sunday morning.

So....what's the verdict. Do most of us use it for real work (I do). I'm
just curious, but I think this data would be valuable for Jetbrains.


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Me too! Still haven't had code disappear on me, but I'm willing to risk that for being able to be 'on the cutting edge'.

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I use 908 for daily work, and I'm along the lucky guys
who have no problems with it ;)

recently there were builds that I could not use and
I switched back to IDEA 3.x, because I do not backup
old EAP builds.

One feature I missed most when using old IDEA 3 again,
was the alt-shift-enter, complete statement.

Maybe Jetbrains currently are doing very much under
the hood - we'll have to be patient and too much
whining might only lead to fewer EAP builds ...

But also I want to say to Jetbrains: do not forget
what made you "big", and this is surely for a big
part because of the outstanding quality of the
eap builds before Aurora - your EAP builds were more
stable than other companies final releases ;)

Another secret of success is the very highly thought out details - and it is sad to see things in IDEA that are not as well thought out.

One little detail is the find entire scope behaviour.
I think IDEA does it wrong, you only need "entire scope"
for replacing - for searching it is confusing.
For searching it is easier to search from cursor
(as you expect it instinctively) and then start from
top when you reached end.
yes, you can uncheck the checkbox for "entire scope",
but when you did replace something and checked it,
you have to uncheck it again when searching, e.g. in
the output window.

IDEA is so popular because it is packed with 1000s
of details that are carefully thought out - don't
stop thinking ;) (I'm sure you don't !!!)

And finally, I want to point out again, as many other
already did: truly openening up the refactorings would surely grant you 100% addiction of lots of developers.

Are you a very little bit jealous about your
refactorings? ;)

0

Yes, I use EAP for daily production work.

Friendly,
Dmitry

Michael Morett wrote:

This question stems from the 908 fiasco and an interesting comment I read
from Evgeny: "First, it's not the first time people claim that "using EAP
for the real work is not the way it was intended for". Really ? So what
was it intended for ? Playing at home ? Developing open-source ?..."

He's got a point. Only by using it for real work do we get to pound on it
hard and truly dig up the nasty bugs or usability issues that would never
be discovered at home playing with it on a Sunday morning.

So....what's the verdict. Do most of us use it for real work (I do). I'm
just curious, but I think this data would be valuable for Jetbrains.


--
Dmitry Lomov
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

0

Using it all the time (think i left not even one build) for production, for sandbox applications, ... and never had any major problems.

Thanks IntelliJ for EAP!

thomas

0

Have been using it for real work since 811(or 813). I have to say, most EAP builds are stable enough for daily work. After hearing those loud complaints, I started using 908 yesterday. It did crash for a few times. IMO, that's ok because restarting is fast enough.

0

I do ... since 801. I have also KEPT every install file since 801, with two exceptions: I think I missed 856/859, and one in the 870s. They were both having LOTS of problems, and didn't have any new features or bug fixes I needed.

Usual method of installation on my XP box is to install to C:\development\tools\IDEA\### (where ### is the build number) and import settings. That way I'm starting clear... though I do use the directory in "My Documents" so it does bear noting that clearing the cache should help.

I do encounter problems; for the most part, though, I'm ok... it isn't a big deal.

0

I use everyday. There was a while where it was too unstable to use, but
since 860*, it has been fine.

Can't wait for the full module support!!!!


"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bildp5$8oi$1@is.intellij.net...

This question stems from the 908 fiasco and an interesting comment I read
from Evgeny: "First, it's not the first time people claim that "using EAP
for the real work is not the way it was intended for". Really ? So what

was

it intended for ? Playing at home ? Developing open-source ?..."

>

He's got a point. Only by using it for real work do we get to pound on it
hard and truly dig up the nasty bugs or usability issues that would never

be

discovered at home playing with it on a Sunday morning.

>

So....what's the verdict. Do most of us use it for real work (I do). I'm
just curious, but I think this data would be valuable for Jetbrains.

>
>


0

I'm on the bandwagon: real work with caveats.

My caveats happen to be:

- forgo idea cvs
- be prepared to fallback on ant and a text editor (jedit or bbedit, depending on mymood)

Having to rebuild my projects so often - not unexpected for an EAP :( - can be rationalized as developing a "deeper" understanding of my build process. This a bit of the tail wagging the dog, but my ant build files are better for it and my production lib-sets/classpaths are much cleaner and intentional. You just can't afford to be sloppy!

I get mildly annoyed with the "EAP is unusable" posts when they get condescending - reprimanding for lack of stability in what not. If you can't afford an hour or two of recovery time, don't upgrade the EAP right way! I did just that with 908. By the time I upgraded, the "safe" way had been laid out by the trailblazers and I did so pretty seemlessly (though I did have reconstruct my project - I'm getting quick at it - 15 min or so). Other times I've been a trailblazer - it's just a matter of how tight I am with deliverables.

Here's a suggestion: instead of following up each new release of the EAP with a "EAP doesn't work (again)" thread, start up a "Trailblazing EAP 9xx" thread for those who need to be a touch more cautious, either out of personality or business needs. Lay out the good, bad, and workarounds and get off the backs of the Jetbrains guys!

0

Yes, of course, and I couldn't see doing it any other way. Sure, I will
reject an occasional build.

Jon

0

Dmitry Lomov (JetBrains) wrote:

>Yes, I use EAP for daily production work.

>

Which build ?
>:(

Alain

0

it seems weird that you use intellij to create intellij.

Do you ever use intellij to test intellij using intellij code to test??

0

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:54:51 +0000, charles decroes wrote:

it seems weird that you use intellij to create intellij.


Why's that? It's certainly a good way to find that something crashes.

Of course, you still get strange problems crop up with other peoples
configurations. But using an app you write as part of your daily routine
certainly helps.

I found that when working on a timesheet/bugtracking/project management
system, we used it inhouse, when we found something that didn't quite work
right, or really iritated us in its stupidity, we changed it, or, if
someone introduced a bug, it was found pretty quickly...

--
"It's all in the heat of the moment, it's all in the pain..." Devy.
Mark Derricutt @ mark@talios.com @ talios.blog-city.com
Now Playing: %s

0

I wasn't saying it was a bad or wrong, just kind of struck me as funny to think of using an app to dubug the same app. Having never worked an an ide team it's kind of a new idea to me.

0

And then the version your testing if it works do you go ahead and add the next feature using it? I bet you could get 6 or 8 deep before you run into a bug and need to go back to the original :)

0

Developers here usually begin the day with updating IDEA from the newest sources from repository,
so one could say we use (current EAP build number + 3) build :)

--
regards,
Alexey Kudravtsev.
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Alain Ravet" <alain.ravet.list@wanadoo.be> wrote in message news:biqduv$jkd$1@is.intellij.net...

Dmitry Lomov (JetBrains) wrote:

>

>Yes, I use EAP for daily production work.
Which build ?
>:(

>

Alain

>


0

Hello!
As far i know, even JetBrains work with lattest successed build in Aurora
development. And also i know that "EAP" builds is more stability that
"latest builds" on which work JetBrains guys.
That is more realty that development Aurora? ;)

If you look no errors and crashes, it not means that realy no errors or
crashes happend. I like to see that realy crashed, but not like if
application hide error from me. Is not true, that exists realy "non
errorios" application, i can belive it :) my guess...

Also in EAP builds is never be "stopsheet" builds that crashes your source
code, if it happens, that JetBrains quickly fix it in same day (and even in
same hour).

My resume, that EAP build is good for realy development and will not crashed
your code. Sure, i use latest EAP build for realy development.

Thank you!

--
Alexey Efimov, Software Engineer
Sputnik Labs,
http://www.spklabs.com
"Michael Morett" <michaelmorett@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bildp5$8oi$1@is.intellij.net...

This question stems from the 908 fiasco and an interesting comment I read
from Evgeny: "First, it's not the first time people claim that "using EAP
for the real work is not the way it was intended for". Really ? So what

was

it intended for ? Playing at home ? Developing open-source ?..."

>

He's got a point. Only by using it for real work do we get to pound on it
hard and truly dig up the nasty bugs or usability issues that would never

be

discovered at home playing with it on a Sunday morning.

>

So....what's the verdict. Do most of us use it for real work (I do). I'm
just curious, but I think this data would be valuable for Jetbrains.

>
>


0

Alain Ravet wrote:

Dmitry Lomov (JetBrains) wrote:

>>Yes, I use EAP for daily production work.
>>
>>


Which build ?
>:(

Each build.

Dmitry
--
Dmitry Lomov
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

0

charles decroes wrote:

it seems weird that you use intellij to create intellij.

Do you ever use intellij to test intellij using intellij code to test??


Yes. And more than that, too :)

Cheers,
Dmitry

--
Dmitry Lomov
IntelliJ Labs / JetBrains Inc.
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

0

I'm using it to do work at my workplace.

I also teach at a school where we made a concious decision not to use EAP because of the extremely short release cycles (project is due in one week... if the Aurora build is crap - too bad!). That and of course that it would be a pain for us to install it every time on around 90 boxes!

The students that know about EAP are free to use that if they want but we're not going to promote it for the others (they have enough with learning all the techniques... let alone struggle with some cryptic Aurora errors such as having to add -Didea.jar.nocopy=true to the shell script that starts the IDE up!!! ;o) ).

Thanks for the EAP.

0

Until a few weeks ago, I was using IDEA release 3.0.5 because the EAP
builds had been too unstable for me. However since then I have been
using build 896 with much success.

Today I started using build 915 and apart from a bug with the CVS File
View (which looks cool and I so want to use it) and the occasional
assertion failure when doing a CVS Diff I'm not having any problems.

Ciao,
Gordon

--
Gordon Tyler (Software Developer)
Quest Software <http://java.quest.com/>
260 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario M5A 4L5, Canada
Voice: 416-643-4846 | Fax: 416-594-1919

0

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