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Hmmm. Saying your are beating JSF isn't that impressive, but about what I expected. I think their library would have been received much better if they had not tried to bring the client programming model to the web container. That is pretty much what has doomed JSF to languish.

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looks like the glory days were back in 2004

http://www.google.com/trends?q=intellijidea%2Ceclipse+ide&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

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Argh, now it's even worse:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=intellijidea%2Ceclipseide%2Cnetbeans+ide&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

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Argh, now it's even worse:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=intellijidea%2Ceclips
eide%2Cnetbeans+ide&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0


Yes, definitely worse: http://www.google.com/trends?q=intellij%2Ceclipseide%2Cnetbeans&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

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This is probably closer to the truth:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=jsf%2Cjavaserverfaces%2Cgoogleweb+toolkit%2Cgwt&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

JSF has other meanings like Joint Strike Fighter, etc. but if you look at regions, you will see India and Silicon Valley at the top of the list, so I think most of the JSF searches are for java server faces not something else. Whichever term is first is the term used to sort the lists.

Also, you can compare the acronym with the full word. What happens is after awhile if the acronym catches on, you see more people search on that.
http://www.google.com/trends?q=gwt%2Cgooglewebtoolkit&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

Anyway, you should take all of this will large grains of salt, because many of these google trend graphs are very misleading for various reasons. But they're sure fun to look at!!

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Forget Eclipse, "eclipse" has too many other meanings and "eclipse ide" is too small a subset. You know eclipse is bigger than netbeans. You can toss in "myeclipse" which is a commercial version of eclipse.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=intellij%2Cjbuilder%2Cnetbeans%2Cmyeclipse&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

What I find more fun to look at are the regions. At the bottom you can click 'Rank by' to see cities/regions sorted by different terms. IntelliJ Top Cities seems to be a who's who of software engineering meccas with bangalore at the top of the list. JBuilder and MyEclipse are heavily China, which I don't really understand. As I said, all of these graphs have to be taken with a big grain of salt.

Number of searches doesn't necessarily translate it how many users there are, just like how many people search for coke and pepsi doesn't really tell you how many bottles o
cokes and pepsis people drank in 2007.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=coke%2Cpepsi&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

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Forget Eclipse, "eclipse" has too many other
meanings and "eclipse ide" is too small a subset. You
know eclipse is bigger than netbeans. You can toss in
"myeclipse" which is a commercial version of
eclipse.


What is interesting, anyway, is the trend: I'm afraid that if something doesn't happen soon, Idea is dead.

Number of searches doesn't necessarily translate it
how many users there are, just like how many people
search for coke and pepsi doesn't really tell you how
many bottles o
cokes and pepsis people drank in 2007.


Maybe, but people does not need to be informed about coke and pepsi, while technologies tend to attract searches which are informative by nature. More than that: maybe you can't compare volumes of searches among different queries, but the trend of a single query surely is interesting, and what can be seen after 2004 is sad.

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I have yet to understand why so many technology people look at Google searches and take that as golden. One of my co-workers tried to convince me that I should work on Ruby instead of Java because Ruby had many more searches.

Searches are an indicator of what may come in the future. That is all searches are ... curiosity amongst a universe of other possibilities.

My search engine is Monster.com. As long as Java continues to have 10x more listings than Ruby, you will see me coding in Java. This is what I do for a profession. If it doesn't pay, I have to move on, or start to live in a van under the bridge.

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I am with Davide here, I've posted several comments on the wiki and in the board and nothing is getting fixed. Can someone from Jetbrains give us the official status on the GWT plugin?

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I am with Davide here, I've posted several comments
on the wiki and in the board and nothing is getting
fixed. Can someone from Jetbrains give us the
official status on the GWT plugin?


I am afraid JetBrains thinks that the GWT plugin is "good enough" as it is now. It's sad: we were used to perfect features, and now what I perceive is mainly the desire to have an entry in a feature list ("GWT? we have this").

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Why do you say that? I was one of those people searching for IntelliJ back in the day. I found it and know it. I don't have to search for it. Searches only show that people are looking to learn about something. It has nothing to do with actual use/popularity. Sun puts out a lot of marketing about Netbeans. Tha is why there are so many searches. People hear the name and want to learn about it. With that said, there is only one developer that I know that has stayed with Netbeans. They try it, find things they don't like and move on. Compare that with IntelliJ. Every person that I have convinced to try it has stuck with it. These people are not searching for IntelliJ either, they have already found how to "develop with pleasure".

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Why do you say that? I was one of those people
searching for IntelliJ back in the day. I found it
and know it. I don't have to search for it.
Searches only show that people are looking to learn
about something. It has nothing to do with actual
use/popularity. Sun puts out a lot of marketing
about Netbeans. Tha is why there are so many
searches. People hear the name and want to learn
about it. With that said, there is only one
developer that I know that has stayed with Netbeans.
They try it, find things they don't like and move
on. Compare that with IntelliJ. Every person that
I have convinced to try it has stuck with it. These
people are not searching for IntelliJ either, they
have already found how to "develop with pleasure".


well, I for one am not sure anymore that Idea provides enough value: I think there are good reasons why I use it today, but I also see good reasons for someone to stay with Eclipse. I also know how easy it was the "idea-lization" of netbeans or eclipse users, in the past: this is no more true, nowadays.

For Example: people come see Idea, try and click on one of the panel windows titlebars looking for a way to maximize them, fail, then look for a way to quickly maximize the panel window, see there's no way, laugh and go.

For example: I believe that Idea's UI is pretty effective in what it must do, but at my same eyes it looks old and naive, the docking system is absolutely sub-standard, unflexibile and unconsistent.

For example: I - as many others do - have been using Spring + Hibernate since 2003. In order to have decent support for the same technologies, 4 years later, I must use a buggy version of the IDE, whose production version will be published in a number of months, still lacking support for other technologies I've been using for years (freemarker, jasperreports, ...), and with other technologies I use supported in a way that feels half-baked (GWT...) and fragile at most.

Sun puts out a lot of marketing? Well, as far as I can read, people are doing those searches because NetBeans is gaining momentum, and this means more users for Netbeans, less users for Idea: less users, less money for developing the missing features. You may not deduce a certain rule of decadence, for Idea, coming from the google trends graph, but don't tell me that the only thing you think when you see Idea's graph declining is something like "no one does IDEA searches because everyone knows about it, and they love it".

NetBeans is booming, this is the truth, and it is booming because of a good mix of features, marketing, community hype and so on. I am doing my part, here, to keep Idea alive and well: I am RANTING because it does not satisfy well my requirements of paying customer (ok, we're only 10 licenses, and we could be 30 at most, if IDEA convinced all of our Eclipse users), I am filing bugs, posting enhancement requests and so on. In exchange, these days, I have 2 issues closed on GWT in the last months, and a new UI for text lookups.

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Have you ever tried going back to eclipse after using Idea? It's damn near impossible. Idea is just too good. It's all the little things that make you stay, the shortcuts, the refactoring, the intentions, the ease of use.

Every year or so I try eclipse just to see if I could use it and the answer is always "no way".

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I see lots of things getting fixed. Maybe GWT is just a lower priority than other things.

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Not to mention GWTStudio plugin is opensource ;)

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I'm in the same boat (and a user since IDEA 3). I do try yearly and after IDEA 6 I was about to switch-- the EAP builds have kept me in play but the benefits aren't nearly as distinguishing.

I like IDEA, I want it to succeed but 6 was too buggy (very few of the early Selena bugfixes got backported) and there are more and more critical eclipse plugins that IntelliJ just can't keep up with.

I like the fact that IDEA has gone plugin-centric, I think they should let the core IDE stabilize and focus on high value plugins.

Possibly even give the IDE away for free and sell packages of plugins-- those sales would easily dictate where the focus should be.

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Travis Reeder wrote:

Have you ever tried going back to eclipse after using Idea? It's damn near impossible. Idea is just too good. It's all the little things that make you stay, the shortcuts, the refactoring, the intentions, the ease of use.



At least it's fast, very fast. You don't need to wait a minute for IDE
to start and tens of seconds to open (one) project. My best argument was
that eclipse is fully anti aliased but with looking at latest builds
IDEA is catching up :)

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"My best argument was that eclipse is fully anti aliased"

what kind of "argument" is that? "buy our apples - they're not tasty at all, but they look better"

"At least it's fast, very fast."

i've seen eclipse responding faster than idea and idea being faster than eclipse. it seems to depend on many factors.

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"My best argument was that eclipse is fully anti aliased"

what kind of "argument" is that? "buy our apples - they're not tasty at all, but they look better"

You are mixing and substituting terms here. Not very nice way to have a
discussion. You just prefer some feature over the others. I like when
application looks nice and fast, thats very important to me. I guess you
prefer so called "productivity". Your choice.

"At least it's fast, very fast."

i've seen eclipse responding faster than idea and idea being faster than eclipse. it seems to depend on many factors.


Well, I haven't.

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"What is interesting, anyway, is the trend: I'm afraid that if something doesn't happen soon, Idea is dead."

i don't think so. idea, eclipse and netbeans can peacefully coexist, even on the same computer.
eclipse is popular because everyone knows it and its free, and because of its plugins. it's a good ide to start with. netbeans is currently being pumped up, and i'm interested in what version 6 will be like. uml support is always nice.
idea doesn't support uml at all, but i don't see that as a disadvantage. if i want or need to use a uml-ide, i'll use netbeans. if i simply want to code with grave and verve ;), i use idea. i'm currently developing a first person shooter using idea, and i'm faster than i could ever be with netbeans or eclipse because i tend to refactor parts of my engine at least once a week (yes, lack of experience). this simply cannot be done with eclipse or netbeans with my current speed.
-> http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/9137/spookyir4.jpg

if at some point netbeans can do anything idea can, just better, i will definately switch to it. same goes for eclipse.

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the whole point of an ide is to allow be to code quickly and refactor without breaking code. antialiasing has absolutely no impact, not even remotely. if you base your decision upon such a feature, you're probably ignoring 95% of everything any ide has to offer.

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I agree with you completely, but I was able to bite my tongue. :)

I especially like the people who are used to Eclipse and don't like IJ because the windows don't detach like they want. I wish I could attach/detach windows for a living, but I am stuck coding for a living. ;)

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People are inherently irrational creatures. I once had someone say to
me that they didn't use Idea over Eclipse because, being implemented in
swing and not SWT, it didn't always paint its contents immediately when
you switched to it - they didn't like to see a 'grey window'! Seriously!

Of course now we have JRE 1.6 (buffered window painting) and much more
work going on in background threads... so no excuses...

N.


Norris Shelton wrote:

I agree with you completely, but I was able to bite my tongue. :)

I especially like the people who are used to Eclipse and don't like IJ because the windows don't detach like they want. I wish I could attach/detach windows for a living, but I am stuck coding for a living. ;)

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A few points on this thread as a whole:

1) Norris makes a great point. Google can't show trends for word of mouth advertising. Like him, every person I have convinced to at least try IDEA has stuck with it. Frequently purchasing a personal license when their company won't pay for it, as did I. (And when someone chooses to use personal funds to buy something rather then using a different free tool, that speaks volumes about the quality.) Some people have permanently converted after only a few days of trial usage.

But of all those people, not one has had to do a Goggle search on IDEA. I gave them the URL. Google simply can't report on word of mouth advertising, which marketing study after marketing study has shown to be the most effective advertising in the world.

2) One could even argue that this is evidence that JetBrains has a great Marketing process. People don't need to search for IDEA because JetBrains marketing provides enough information on where to go (jetbrains.com) to get more info.

3) The trends don't show who is doing these searches. Some bean counter who read about Eclipse in some trade magazine and thinks he can cut cost by having developers use a free IDE? Or a top notch developer who needs a kick-a** IDE and saw that IDEA won the award for best IDE?. The how effectively do people use their ide?[/url] thread ties in with this discussion. There are plenty of people out there who use their IDE as a color coding editor that lets them check code in and out of CVS. So they don't see a need to pay for, or research, a different IDE when their free one does everything they think an IDE should (or can) do.

4) There are a lot of other good points in this thread as well. In the end, I think, as the thread title says, it is interesting; but I don't think any hard conclusions can be drawn from the trend reports. The data doesn't give enough information and is based on only one of a few dozen search terms I could use to look up IDEA, or the other IDEs. It doesn't show the number of people that search for "Java IDE", look at the the top 3 of 4 hits, and which they try. Lastly, throw in the fact that IDEA has a two word name, and it makes it harder to tell. In their every day talking about it, some people I know call it "IntelliJ", some "IDEA" and some "IntelliJ IDEA". There are simply too many variances in Google searches to do an accurate comparison.

5) We all know IDEA rocks. As long as JetBrains doesn't get complacent, continues to innovate, listen to its users, obverses & responses to industry trends & changes in technology, and we all continue to spread the word, IDEA will be around for a long time.

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