Long awaited Demetra roadmap
can be found at http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Demetra+Roadmap
-
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"
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Hello Jon,
JS> The "Delayed commit: build and commit if successful" brings up other
JS> questions. Will we be able to tie this 'commit if successful' to
JS> server-side code inspections so that the commit can be rejected if
JS> it doesn't pass project-mandated inspections?
JS>
JS> Can a project-wide code reformatting be applied to the code on the
JS> server side as it is committed?
Good question to have it also somehow scriptable to apply code cleanup too.
I can see inspections checking for package depency rules for sure. The less
code review I have to do of this sort the better. I'd rather take the time
to setup the rules, and when something goes wrong, notify the developer,
and maybe someone else on the team, and reject the commit.
Another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes when writing TDD style, you
write a test code a little check test write more code until it passes...
when it does pass, and all the existing tests pass as well, I'd like the
option to either be prompted or make it automatically commit code on a test
passing. SO if I trigger a Run All test action and they pass, commit (or
ask me). I usually don't run all all the time since my Run All situation
also runs system tests, and I usually only run this before I want to commit
my code anyway, and being able to decide when to commit code based on a unit
test would be very useful.
Thanks
R
Dave Griffith wrote:
> is basically completed functionality. Can't say I disagree.
Wait a sec. I strongly disagree:
Omnicore's "Back in Time" is nice, yet the pop frame feature is mostly sufficient for me.
But haven't you ever experienced some of these issues:
- an expression (e.g. chained method calls) where you want to step into some part of it,
but end up doing "step into", "step out of", "step into", "step out of", "step into",
"step out of", and a final "step into" to get to the point of interest?
Omnicore allows you to select the part right from the start.
- an exception is thrown deep in the JDK (or some other jars without debug info).
Being an experienced programmer, you know that with a 99.9% probability it's your own
fault, so you try to trace back the call chain up ten levels to your own code.
Unfortunately Idea cannot display the parameter values, because the jars have no debug
info associated to it. So you try to make a mental map of all the assignment to and from
parameters that took place along the call chain and try to figure out what might have
been wrong.
Well, guess what: Omnicore can display the values of local vars and params, even if the
jars have no debug info in it (as long as the source is there).
- You have real problems finding your own field values among the 132 fields from super
classes. Wouldn't it be nice to group fields by super classes?
And then there are still many, many other open issues, e.g. a popup that disappears as soon
as you try to click on its scrollbars...
Amnon I. Govrin wrote:
What I would find much more useful than back-in-time debugging is
expression level stepping which has been requested for quite some
time (http://www.jetbrains.net/jira/browse/IDEABKL-1206).
Any chance of getting something like this?
Regards,
Jens
Maxim Shafirov (JetBrains) wrote:
Nice set of features! Any information on whether Demetra will be
a 5.5 or a 6.0 version?
And of course, when does the Demetra EAP start? Can't wait to try
out some of those features...
Best regards,
Jens
Hello Jens,
>> can be found at
>> http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Demetra+Roadmap
>>
JV> Nice set of features! Any information on whether Demetra will be
JV> a 5.5 or a 6.0 version?
Demetra is IDEA 6.0.
JV> And of course, when does the Demetra EAP start? Can't wait to try
JV> out some of those features...
We hope to start the EAP quite soon - in a few weeks, maybe. However, only
a rather small part of the roadmap is currently implemented...
--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"
BTW, Congrats Hani! :)
Hello,
Max for a true, thiese parts of Demetra is already done, as i understand. Maybe GUI Designer and somethink else in progres.
Is it possible already to open EAP? :)
Most probaly we need to wait until JavaPolis conference. EAP not only entertainment but marketing in some way too :)
Where are Aspects? I'm sorry, but I won't let IDEA keep me from using
Aspects forever. :-((((
Hello Michael,
The old and incomplete AspectJ support has been completely removed from the
Demetra codebase, and we don't plan to provide any other aspects technology
support yet.
MR> Where are Aspects? I'm sorry, but I won't let IDEA keep me from
MR> using Aspects forever. :-((((
MR>
>> can be found at
>> http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Demetra+Roadmap
--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"
sent a mail to all the team here,
all they could say is WOW,
that too from couple of Eclipse fan's
cant wait to get my hands dirty
keep it coming
as one of the posters to this thread rightly put,
if you can pull this off, it will be industry changing and will change the mind set of the developers and the way they think and develop using java.
cheers,
parthi
+1 :)
Hi,
so you think that Aspects are not important? IMO they're the single most
important new technological concept since object oriented programming.
If you want IDEA to be seen as a modern IDE, you should not ignore
aspects. Right now IDEA seems to be an IDE specialized on "old school"
web app development, most suitable for traditional and conservative
developers. A really narrow approach ...
I hate Eclipse, but what I'd hate even more would be to be forced by
Jetbrains to use it.
> Hello Michael,
>
> The old and incomplete AspectJ support has been completely removed
from the Demetra codebase, and we don't plan to provide any other
aspects technology support yet.
>
> MR> Where are Aspects? I'm sorry, but I won't let IDEA keep me from
> MR> using Aspects forever. :-((((
> MR>
>>> can be found at
>>> http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Demetra+Roadmap
>
On the other hand, the Language API will probably grow mature, opening a road for a skilled programmer to write an AspectJ plugin.
Smooth moves, JetBrains :)
Uh-oh...
>> Hello Michael,
>>
>> The old and incomplete AspectJ support has been completely removed
>>
>> MR> Where are Aspects? I'm sorry, but I won't let IDEA keep me from
>> MR> using Aspects forever. :-((((
>> MR>
>>>> can be found at
>>>> http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Demetra+Roadmap
+1 :)
I wish for this feature every time I use the debugger.
Stephen Kelvin wrote in part:
Oh, and one more thing. The whole move to server-based functionality is a brilliant move. It's not just that the functionality is compelling (which it very much is). It's that the way the functionality is implemented will make it very hard for Eclipse to do another fast-follower trick on you. Their governance structure and entrenched base of partners is going to make it extremely difficult for them to ship a server-linked IDE. I'd guess this will buy you another two or three years of technological dominance, if you play your cards right.
NetBeans, on the other hand, could easily make these changes, if they were so inclined. Of course it took them five years to figure out that refactorings were a good thing to have, so they aren't the quickest of the bunch.
--Dave Griffith
Ditto. That particular routine (which I encounter almost every time I debug)
really makes me miss Smalltalk, or (god help me, because I hated most every
other aspect of it),
the VisualAge debugger.
>> - an expression (e.g. chained method calls) where you want to step
>> into
>> some part of it,
>> but end up doing "step into", "step out of", "step into", "step out
>> of", "step into",
>> "step out of", and a final "step into" to get to the point of
>> interest?
>> Omnicore allows you to select the part right from the start.
I think it will be very important for many Eclipse users, for JB to provide
hosting for these servers. It's hard to find a web host that even has Java, let
alone a host that would let you set up your own server.
Dave Griffith wrote:
Hello Keith,
KL> I think it will be very important for many Eclipse users, for JB to
KL> provide hosting for these servers. It's hard to find a web host that
KL> even has Java, let alone a host that would let you set up your own
KL> server.
KL>
I don't think they need to go that far. Pretty much everybody in serious
development manages some kind of central server(s) (version control, build,
even bugtracking), having something along the lines of the TMate server take
care of IDEA's "central" functionality would be enough for most of the cases,
I presume.
Andrei
It didn't take them five years to figure it out, it took them five years to code it in their preferred IDE, that's all! ;)
Exaggerated, unfair, but easy (based on product reputation)!
All things being equal, it should be... But it's marketing (and a whole load of code-monkey developers that just don't know and aren't switched-on enough to get informed) that tends to grab most of the attention.
As one poster on this thread suggested, leverage the central server to create lots of pretty management tools and reports for project managers and managers in general. It won't help developers directly, but will make their job easy, and they're the ones with the money for choosing the IDE...
It's a very good roadmap, and I hope you'll run the personal licence upgrade offer again! :)
I do like the central server approach: will it work safely when using across the Internet (for those outwith an in-house intranet-based development team)?
I can see an integrated out-of-the-box solution for distributed team development, testing/integration/reporting, going down well in conjunction with your "free for open source" projects offer too.
It's a wise decision too to offer improved standards-based Swing/HTML/JSF editing, as competing products appear very attractive to many with recent innovations in this area. If you can get ease-of-use for visual design that generates code that's easy to maintain by hand, you're onto a winner.
The other thing I hope for is optimum performance and reliability; I've had no problems in this respect but I've seen lots of people less than happy about this.
Keep up the good work, and good luck!
I think the reason Eclipse is getting popular both for "serious development" and
casual development, is that it's easy to get started for casual development, so
it gets lots of mindshare. So, I think JB should cater to the crowd who works at
small companies or on opensource software, to increase good will and mindshare
for JB.
Andrei Oprea wrote:
How can we get little more detailed info on some of the items? Among other things I am wowed about, I would love to get more info about:
IDEtalk (P2P) plugin - broadcast only? Will it work in an env when there is no broadcast allowed? VPN?
Server integration - any additional licenses required for the server side pieces? Assuming rather easy integration with CruiseControl?
CodeCoverage -
Hello Vinay,
VM> IDEtalk (P2P) plugin - broadcast only? Will it work in an env when
VM> there is no broadcast allowed? VPN?
IDEtalk works both through broadcasts and through Jabber protocol.
VM> Server integration - any additional licenses required for the server
VM> side pieces? Assuming rather easy integration with CruiseControl?
It replaces, not integrates with CruiseControl. We haven't made any final
decisions on licensing yet.
--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"
Hello Michael,
MR> Hi,
MR>
MR> so you think that Aspects are not important? IMO they're the single
MR> most important new technological concept since object oriented
MR> programming.
Not again! Come on man, let's not hijack the thread.
R
Hello Keith,
KL> I think it will be very important for many Eclipse users, for JB to
KL> provide hosting for these servers. It's hard to find a web host that
KL> even has Java, let alone a host that would let you set up your own
KL> server.
KL>
www.eapps.com. We use it, and we install what ever we want on the servers,
we even get root access.
R
DJ> It replaces, not integrates with CruiseControl.
Good!
DJ> We haven't made any
DJ> final decisions on licensing yet.
Uh oh :)
R