Poll: Commander usage/popularity

Does anyone use the Commander? Would it be useful to suggest to IntelliJ to remove it, and possibly trim down the size of Aurora?

I personally never use it. I just wonder about others.
I'm figuring if it's not heavily used, they can dump it and remove what is effectively dead code. Less code = less to debug = higher quality.


Michael.

73 comments

I already
suggested that parts not essential to core IDEA
features should be made as
loadable modules.


"Modularization of IDEA"
http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=8134
Feel free to cast your vote on this SCR.

I too, prefer to use FAR Manager and never use Commander in IDEA. It'd be nice to be able to unload Commander completely.

0

Well, sometimes but very rarely I use it. It's useful when you want to copy or move a bunch of classes from one package to another one.

0

Sergei S. Ivanov wrote:
>>I already
>>suggested that parts not essential to core IDEA
>>features should be made as
>>loadable modules.


"Modularization of IDEA"
http://www.intellij.net/tracker/idea/viewSCR?publicId=8134
Feel free to cast your vote on this SCR.

I too, prefer to use FAR Manager and never use Commander in IDEA. It'd be nice to be able to unload Commander completely.


Nice point!

I too went from NC to VC and now FAR

Edo

0

+1 on removing the commander

0

Please do not request removing the feature just because you don't use it and/or do not understand what's it for.

Here's a FAQ with the commander-related question:
http://www.intellij.net/websupport/faq.jsp?kind=faq&cat=14#32

Personally I use Commander on regular basis and rarely open the Project View. Project View shows a lot of classes/packages that I
don't work with at the moment and I find it very convenient that Commander lets me concentrate on exactly those packages I work
with. The functionality it provides is quite sufficient for package browsing/moving/renaming - I doubt that at any given moment you
do require the view of all packages. All other operations I do within the editor or specialized views opened on demand (hierarchy
view/ methos hierarchy view etc). I also don't use Structure view, but structure popup (ctrl-F12) instead. Also find Commander more
keyboard-oriented than Project View.

I agree with the opinion that the tools you are using is a matter of taste/style of work/habits. I also find it a good idea to make
all views 'pluggable'. Unfortunately current internal design does not allow this and perhaps in the future versions this will be
possible.


--

Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
JetBrains, Inc, http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Michael Morett" <mmorett@ebuilt.com> wrote in message news:19891206.1053036794611.JavaMail.jrun@is.intellij.net...

Does anyone use the Commander? Would it be useful to suggest to IntelliJ to remove it, and possibly trim down the size of Aurora?

>

I personally never use it. I just wonder about others.
I'm figuring if it's not heavily used, they can dump it and remove what is effectively dead code. Less code = less to debug =

higher quality.
>
>

Michael.



0

It'd be nice to be able to unload Commander completely.


I still can't get the point of this discussion. Why do you want to unload
it? To free 50K of memory?

--
Best regards,
Mike Aizatsky.
-


JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


0

Also, how can unloading Commander can help make IDEA more stable/reliable/bugfree?

--

Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
JetBrains, Inc, http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Mike Aizatsky" <mike@intellij.com> wrote in message news:ba2mi4$4r1$1@is.intellij.net...

It'd be nice to be able to unload Commander completely.

>

I still can't get the point of this discussion. Why do you want to unload
it? To free 50K of memory?

>

--
Best regards,
Mike Aizatsky.
------------------------------
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>


0

I'm sort of with Eugene in the opinion that if some people use it, it shouldn't be removed, as it probably is hurting anything/consuming too many resources.

Actually, if the intellij folks use it heavily, it should definitely be retained, as taking one of their tools away will slow down EAP builds :)

I don't use it. I use the project tree and Ctrl-F12 mostly for code navigation. For most file operations I use cygwin.

0

As an alternative, it'd be nice to be able to hide away unused elements
(eg the commander)
(eg I don't see the button for the ejb window if I don't set up the
project for ejbs)

Edo


Eugene Zhuravlev wrote:

Also, how can unloading Commander can help make IDEA more stable/reliable/bugfree?

--

Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
JetBrains, Inc, http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Mike Aizatsky" <mike@intellij.com> wrote in message news:ba2mi4$4r1$1@is.intellij.net...

>>>It'd be nice to be able to unload Commander completely.
>>
>>I still can't get the point of this discussion. Why do you want to unload
>>it? To free 50K of memory?
>>
>>--
>>Best regards,
>>Mike Aizatsky.
>>----


>>JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
>>http://www.intellij.com
>>"Develop with pleasure!"
>>
>>



0

Please do not request removing the feature just because you don't use it
and/or do not understand what's it for.


Exactly. Otherwise I would vote for removing the whole web-stuff support,
because I don't need it.

BTW, I cannot understand, why the Commander causes so much noice. It's just
a very small part of IDEA. How does it hurt, if it's still there?

Tom

0

If I had to guess, it's because

1) It shows up in everyone's face, whether they need it or not, unless they turn off tool window bars entirely. I imagine if it was actually hideable, no-one would care (like the web and EJB stuff).

2) It's feels like the most under-featured chunk of the whole IDE, since it invites comparison with stand-alone window system commanders, and loses that comparison handily.

It's like having a child's bicycle horn on a Ferrari. It doesn't hurt anything, but it doesn't fit in either, and certainly doesn't do justice to the rest of the technology.

0

Hang on .. this isn't a vote to remove it, is it?

I may not use it, but since it stays permanently hidden, then it doesn't bother me.

Some folk may use it though, so I wouldn't want to see it removed ...

0

2) It's feels like the most under-featured chunk of the whole IDE, since

it invites comparison with stand-alone window system commanders, and loses
that comparison handily.

It's not intended to replace file system commanders, it just shares the UI
paradigm with them. The same way one could say that Project view loses the
comparision with Windows Explorer (they both use the tree control).

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Dave Griffith" <dave.griffith@trilogy.com> wrote in message
news:3596290.1053095339915.JavaMail.jrun@is.intellij.net...

If I had to guess, it's because

>

1) It shows up in everyone's face, whether they need it or not, unless

they turn off tool window bars entirely. I imagine if it was actually
hideable, no-one would care (like the web and EJB stuff).
>

2) It's feels like the most under-featured chunk of the whole IDE, since

it invites comparison with stand-alone window system commanders, and loses
that comparison handily.
>

It's like having a child's bicycle horn on a Ferrari. It doesn't hurt

anything, but it doesn't fit in either, and certainly doesn't do justice to
the rest of the technology.


0

I never used the Commander either because I never found it useful. Since a lot of the users use this feature, I agree that this should not be removed, but I would also ask the IntelliJ folks to consider making a setting in the Preferences to not make it visible on the toolbar. Or consider letting the user to show Project or Commander (one or the other) if nobody uses both.

Since Eugene brought up the point that he likes the Commander because he found it convenient to concentrate on a particular package, may I suggest that IntelliJ considers adding a "Favorites" view (either in Project or Commander) to allow the developer to add classes that he is currently work on or want to keep track of. I am working on this large web app that has literally thousands of classes and hundreds of packages. And most of the time, I am responsible for fixing a couple of bugs that touch 5 to 10 classes in various packages. It would be great if while tracing through the code, I can add pertinent classes to this "Favorites" view, so that I can quickly navigate between these files without having to try to find them again in the Project tree. Also, this view will be great for adding files that have been changed and need to be check in to CVS. After working for a few days tracking and fixing a bug, one may have changed several files. By the time the bug is fixed, I found it hard to remember which files have been changed. It would be great if there is some way to track the files that I have changed, so when it is time to check it back into CVS (or other source control), I have the list right there in front of me.

Any thoughts on this issue?

Thanks,
Ben Wong
Matthias Group

0

Exactly, especially if you want to move inner class to the upper level, the
commander is very handy.

Besides the commander view is very useful when, for example, in one package
you have domain objects and in another package you have mapper classes that
perform persistence services for domain classes. Most of the time there is
one-to-one relationship between a domain class and a mapper class. This way
you can move around them very quickly. All in all, this is a matter of
taste, but if so many people are frustrated to see an additional useless for
them panel, IDEA might have an option to disable commander. Just a thought.

/kesh

"Thomas Singer" <thomas.singer@noregnisspam.de> wrote in message
news:opro9bljkumxlxr0@news.intellij.net...

Yes, I like the commander, because it allows me to simply move classes to
different packages. Not that I do it daily, but if you need it, it's very
handy.

>

Tom



0

Ben Wong wrote:

I never used the Commander either because I never found it useful. Since a lot of the users use this feature, I agree that this should not be removed, but I would also ask the IntelliJ folks to consider making a setting in the Preferences to not make it visible on the toolbar. Or consider letting the user to show Project or Commander (one or the other) if nobody uses both.

Since Eugene brought up the point that he likes the Commander because he found it convenient to concentrate on a particular package, may I suggest that IntelliJ considers adding a "Favorites" view (either in Project or Commander) to allow the developer to add classes that he is currently work on or want to keep track of. I am working on this large web app that has literally thousands of classes and hundreds of packages. And most of the time, I am responsible for fixing a couple of bugs that touch 5 to 10 classes in various packages. It would be great if while tracing through the code, I can add pertinent classes to this "Favorites" view, so that I can quickly navigate between these files without having to try to find them again in the Project tree. Also, this view will be great for adding files that have been changed and need to be check in to CVS. After working for a few days tracking and fixing a bug, one may have changed several files. By the time the bug is fixed

, I found it hard to remember which files have been changed. It would be great if there is some way to track the files that I have changed, so when it is time to check it back into CVS (or other source control), I have the list right there in front of me.


Any thoughts on this issue?


Have you tried Chris Bartley's WorkSpaces plugin?

Jon

0

50kb here, 50kb there, you know. Thread by thread, enough to knit a shirt :)

"Mike Aizatsky" <mike@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:ba2mi4$4r1$1@is.intellij.net...

It'd be nice to be able to unload Commander completely.

>

I still can't get the point of this discussion. Why do you want to unload
it? To free 50K of memory?

>

--
Best regards,
Mike Aizatsky.
------------------------------
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>


0

I would gladly vote on addition of "Favourites" view, because I believe it will greatly simplify work with many little independent pieces of a large project.

0

Um, how can you even use IDEA without using the project view? I can't
fathom how you work with a project without using project view...

What do you use commander for? I couldn't figure out what it was for or how
to put it to use.

I'm genuinely curious.

"kesh" <dummy@bogus.com> wrote in message
news:ba13t2$du8$1@is.intellij.net...

I use Commander all the time. Even though I never use project panel, I do
not ask to remove it.

>

/kesh

>

"Michael Morett" <mmorett@ebuilt.com> wrote in message
news:19891206.1053036794611.JavaMail.jrun@is.intellij.net...

Does anyone use the Commander? Would it be useful to suggest to

IntelliJ

to remove it, and possibly trim down the size of Aurora?
>

I personally never use it. I just wonder about others.
I'm figuring if it's not heavily used, they can dump it and remove what

is

effectively dead code. Less code = less to debug = higher quality.
>
>

Michael.

>
>


0

IMO if the feature is not understandable by 99% of our users then such
feature should be removed or totally reworked.

regards,
Vladimir Kondratyev
_____________________
JetBrains

Eugene Zhuravlev wrote:

Please do not request removing the feature just because you don't use it and/or do not understand what's it for.

Here's a FAQ with the commander-related question:
http://www.intellij.net/websupport/faq.jsp?kind=faq&cat=14#32

Personally I use Commander on regular basis and rarely open the Project View. Project View shows a lot of classes/packages that I
don't work with at the moment and I find it very convenient that Commander lets me concentrate on exactly those packages I work
with. The functionality it provides is quite sufficient for package browsing/moving/renaming - I doubt that at any given moment you
do require the view of all packages. All other operations I do within the editor or specialized views opened on demand (hierarchy
view/ methos hierarchy view etc). I also don't use Structure view, but structure popup (ctrl-F12) instead. Also find Commander more
keyboard-oriented than Project View.

I agree with the opinion that the tools you are using is a matter of taste/style of work/habits. I also find it a good idea to make
all views 'pluggable'. Unfortunately current internal design does not allow this and perhaps in the future versions this will be
possible.


--

Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
JetBrains, Inc, http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Michael Morett" <mmorett@ebuilt.com> wrote in message news:19891206.1053036794611.JavaMail.jrun@is.intellij.net...

>>Does anyone use the Commander? Would it be useful to suggest to IntelliJ to remove it, and possibly trim down the size of Aurora?
>>
>>I personally never use it. I just wonder about others.
>>I'm figuring if it's not heavily used, they can dump it and remove what is effectively dead code. Less code = less to debug =


higher quality.

>>
>>Michael.



0

I guess "Disable commander" feature would be really easy to implement for
those who don't need it, instead of removing it altogether. There are people
who use it all the time. In our group 90% of programers use it.
BTW, it is quite simple plugin.

/kesh

"Vladimir Kondratyev" <vova@intellij.net> wrote in message
news:ba3592$eid$1@is.intellij.net...

IMO if the feature is not understandable by 99% of our users then such
feature should be removed or totally reworked.

>

regards,
Vladimir Kondratyev
_____________________
JetBrains

>

Eugene Zhuravlev wrote:

Please do not request removing the feature just because you don't use it

and/or do not understand what's it for.

>

Here's a FAQ with the commander-related question:
http://www.intellij.net/websupport/faq.jsp?kind=faq&cat=14#32

>

Personally I use Commander on regular basis and rarely open the Project

View. Project View shows a lot of classes/packages that I

don't work with at the moment and I find it very convenient that

Commander lets me concentrate on exactly those packages I work

with. The functionality it provides is quite sufficient for package

browsing/moving/renaming - I doubt that at any given moment you

do require the view of all packages. All other operations I do within

the editor or specialized views opened on demand (hierarchy

view/ methos hierarchy view etc). I also don't use Structure view, but

structure popup (ctrl-F12) instead. Also find Commander more

keyboard-oriented than Project View.

>

I agree with the opinion that the tools you are using is a matter of

taste/style of work/habits. I also find it a good idea to make

all views 'pluggable'. Unfortunately current internal design does not

allow this and perhaps in the future versions this will be

possible.

>
>

--

>

Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
JetBrains, Inc, http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Michael Morett" <mmorett@ebuilt.com> wrote in message

news:19891206.1053036794611.JavaMail.jrun@is.intellij.net...

>
>>Does anyone use the Commander? Would it be useful to suggest to

IntelliJ to remove it, and possibly trim down the size of Aurora?

>>
>>I personally never use it. I just wonder about others.
>>I'm figuring if it's not heavily used, they can dump it and remove what

is effectively dead code. Less code = less to debug =

>

higher quality.

>
>>
>>Michael.
>
>
>

>


0

>>IMO if the feature is not understandable by 99% of our
>>users then such feature should be removed or totally
>>reworked.


That's kind of what I was hinting at. What's interesting about the Commander discussion is whereas IntelliJ is normally open to feedback and ideas, this seems to be an "it's not a problem, case closed" situation. I dont remember this being discussed before, or I would have not raised the issue. But apparently it was discussed before and met with the same response.

Leave the Commander in if it is going to generate negativity between IntelliJ and the EAP community trying to provide feedback. It's really not that big of a deal.

0


Yeah, but somehow it just doesn't feel that way. The Project window feels like a sincere, full-featured, creative and java-aware attempt on someone's part to display a project hierarchy directory. Not that it couldn't be improved (and I've got the tracker requests to prove it), but there's a clear sense that it fits the IDEA world-view. The Commander just feels a lot less well-thought out and less full-featured, certainly not enough to justify it's 'always enabled tool-window' status.

0

I wish one would be that thrifty when asking for NEW features that rarely
gonna be used.

--

Best regards,
Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Michael Jouravlev" <mikus@mail.ru> wrote in message
news:ba2v37$t37$1@is.intellij.net...

50kb here, 50kb there, you know. Thread by thread, enough to knit a shirt

:)
>

"Mike Aizatsky" <mike@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:ba2mi4$4r1$1@is.intellij.net...

It'd be nice to be able to unload Commander completely.

>

I still can't get the point of this discussion. Why do you want to

unload

it? To free 50K of memory?

>

--
Best regards,
Mike Aizatsky.
------------------------------
JetBrains, Inc / IntelliJ Software
http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

>
>


0

Plugin sounds like a very good solution. I think that IDEA should not be
fat and should not contains equivalent file views. It should be one
flexible and rich-featured view for file browsing.

Vladimir Kondratyev
___________________
JetBrains

kesh wrote:

I guess "Disable commander" feature would be really easy to implement for
those who don't need it, instead of removing it altogether. There are people
who use it all the time. In our group 90% of programers use it.
BTW, it is quite simple plugin.

/kesh

"Vladimir Kondratyev" <vova@intellij.net> wrote in message
news:ba3592$eid$1@is.intellij.net...

>>IMO if the feature is not understandable by 99% of our users then such
>>feature should be removed or totally reworked.
>>
>>regards,
>> Vladimir Kondratyev
>>_____________________
>>JetBrains
>>
>>Eugene Zhuravlev wrote:
>>
>>>Please do not request removing the feature just because you don't use it


and/or do not understand what's it for.

>>>Here's a FAQ with the commander-related question:
>>>http://www.intellij.net/websupport/faq.jsp?kind=faq&cat=14#32
>>>
>>>Personally I use Commander on regular basis and rarely open the Project


View. Project View shows a lot of classes/packages that I

>>>don't work with at the moment and I find it very convenient that


Commander lets me concentrate on exactly those packages I work

>>>with. The functionality it provides is quite sufficient for package


browsing/moving/renaming - I doubt that at any given moment you

>>>do require the view of all packages. All other operations I do within


the editor or specialized views opened on demand (hierarchy

>>>view/ methos hierarchy view etc). I also don't use Structure view, but


structure popup (ctrl-F12) instead. Also find Commander more

>>>keyboard-oriented than Project View.
>>>
>>>I agree with the opinion that the tools you are using is a matter of


taste/style of work/habits. I also find it a good idea to make

>>>all views 'pluggable'. Unfortunately current internal design does not


allow this and perhaps in the future versions this will be

>>>possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Eugene Zhuravlev
>>>JetBrains, Inc, http://www.intellij.com
>>>"Develop with pleasure!"
>>>
>>>
>>>"Michael Morett" <mmorett@ebuilt.com> wrote in message


news:19891206.1053036794611.JavaMail.jrun@is.intellij.net...

>>>>Does anyone use the Commander? Would it be useful to suggest to


IntelliJ to remove it, and possibly trim down the size of Aurora?

>>>>I personally never use it. I just wonder about others.
>>>>I'm figuring if it's not heavily used, they can dump it and remove what


is effectively dead code. Less code = less to debug =

>>>higher quality.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Michael.
>>>
>>>
>>>



0

I have to admit to being one that just doesn't understand the point or
utility of it. It's not obvious to me what it's for.

It seems completely redundant to me to the proejct pane (which I always keep
open and docked), only less intuitive. There's no drag-drop between the two
panes, and I've seen no explaination for how it's supposed to be used, what
functionality it facilitiates, etc.

I've opened it numerous times, and ended up just scratching my head and
putting it away again. I just don't "get it".

Maybe information and examples are what's needed? Or maybe it really does
need a revamping? Or maybe what it does can be fully folded into the
project view in some way, and the redundancy removed? I dunno. I have no
way of knowing... :)

"Vladimir Kondratyev" <vova@intellij.net> wrote in message
news:ba3592$eid$1@is.intellij.net...

IMO if the feature is not understandable by 99% of our users then such
feature should be removed or totally reworked.

>

regards,
Vladimir Kondratyev
_____________________
JetBrains

>

Eugene Zhuravlev wrote:

Please do not request removing the feature just because you don't use it

and/or do not understand what's it for.

>

Here's a FAQ with the commander-related question:
http://www.intellij.net/websupport/faq.jsp?kind=faq&cat=14#32

>

Personally I use Commander on regular basis and rarely open the Project

View. Project View shows a lot of classes/packages that I

don't work with at the moment and I find it very convenient that

Commander lets me concentrate on exactly those packages I work

with. The functionality it provides is quite sufficient for package

browsing/moving/renaming - I doubt that at any given moment you

do require the view of all packages. All other operations I do within

the editor or specialized views opened on demand (hierarchy

view/ methos hierarchy view etc). I also don't use Structure view, but

structure popup (ctrl-F12) instead. Also find Commander more

keyboard-oriented than Project View.

>

I agree with the opinion that the tools you are using is a matter of

taste/style of work/habits. I also find it a good idea to make

all views 'pluggable'. Unfortunately current internal design does not

allow this and perhaps in the future versions this will be

possible.

>
>

--

>

Best regards,
Eugene Zhuravlev
JetBrains, Inc, http://www.intellij.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Michael Morett" <mmorett@ebuilt.com> wrote in message

news:19891206.1053036794611.JavaMail.jrun@is.intellij.net...

>
>>Does anyone use the Commander? Would it be useful to suggest to

IntelliJ to remove it, and possibly trim down the size of Aurora?

>>
>>I personally never use it. I just wonder about others.
>>I'm figuring if it's not heavily used, they can dump it and remove what

is effectively dead code. Less code = less to debug =

>

higher quality.

>
>>
>>Michael.
>
>
>

>


0

I wish one would be that thrifty when asking for NEW features that rarely


Ahhh. I'm hit

Good shot Maxim.

:)

Carlos


0

>>Also, how can unloading Commander can help make IDEA
>>more stable/reliable/bugfree?

1. Because it is literally impossible for code that doesn't exist to cause problems. What doesn't exist can't break.

2. Because code that doesn't exist doesn't have to be debugged, or have its unit tests updated, or have valuable developer resources assigned to it in any way.

As an example, did IntelliJ test the functionality of the Commander when they introduced the OSX version? I'm sure they did. Unit tests will only get you so far; someone has to verify it works as intended. And if there was a problem, it had to be addressed. In either scenario, there are man-hours associated with this by virtue of Commander being present. As we go vertical, every update to IDEA will have to ensure Commander is working. As we go horizontal, every platform supported will have to ensure Commander works properly in that context.

0

On Fri, 16 May 2003 13:10:32 -0400, kesh wrote:

I guess "Disable commander" feature would be really easy to implement for
those who don't need it, instead of removing it altogether. There are
people who use it all the time. In our group 90% of programers use it.
BTW, it is quite simple plugin.


All tabs currently have a "move to: top/bottom/left/right" and "hide"
buttons as part of the plugin/toolwindow framework, instead of adding this
functionality JUST to Commander, why not to all.

Also - One could make it like the object hierachy window, that doesn't
register the tool window until asked for ( maybe a plugin settings option
for "show on startup" ) or something.


--
...turn to the light - don't be frightened by the shadows it creates,
...turn to the light - turning away could be a terrible mistake
...dream theater - the great debate


0

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