64 comments

PLEASE tell me I'm the only one who can't get the return key to work! Right now DP10 looks like Gold except the return key doesn't insert a new line!!! What the hell?

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PLEASE tell me I'm the only one who can't get the return key to work! Right
now DP10 looks like Gold except the return key doesn't insert a new line!!!
What the hell?


You're not the only one. I too eagerly installed the new release.
Found everything was great, no hangs, very snappy performance. Then
with glee, tried to actually get something done, and POW, no return key.
Very very very frustrating! DP10 giveth and DP10 taketh away.

Here's hoping DP11 is hot on its heels -- this pretty much shoots my
dev environment.

dylan

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Problem is that the return key works in Magic Draw, so either IntelliJ can help us out quickly in this case, or Apple screwed up AGAIN! I don't know who the hell does QA over there, but I'd fire every single one of them!

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Dylan McNamee wrote:

Here's hoping DP11 is hot on its heels -- this pretty much shoots my
dev environment.


To be precise: They have exactly this week to fix it. Or do you think they
delayed shipping my Powerbook because they knew there still might be some
bugs hiding in Java 1.4?

Anyways: How usable is IDEA on MacOS right now? How difficult is it to
install so that the IDE is usable?

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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I encourage everyone to report the bugs to Apple as soon as possible. We
have supported about a dozen of engineers at Apple testing the JDK with IDEA
so your reports will hopefully get fixed right away.

Eugene


"Dylan McNamee" <dylan@truedisk.com> wrote in message
news:dylan-0A77BC.16184303022003@news.intellij.net...

PLEASE tell me I'm the only one who can't get the return key to work!

Right

now DP10 looks like Gold except the return key doesn't insert a new

line!!!

What the hell?

>

You're not the only one. I too eagerly installed the new release.
Found everything was great, no hangs, very snappy performance. Then
with glee, tried to actually get something done, and POW, no return key.
Very very very frustrating! DP10 giveth and DP10 taketh away.

>

Here's hoping DP11 is hot on its heels -- this pretty much shoots my
dev environment.

>

dylan



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Dirk IDEA looks PERFECT, but not return key, so either you copy a return line and paste it in, or you don't use IDEA AT ALL! This is so screwed up!

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Eugene Belyaev wrote:

I encourage everyone to report the bugs to Apple as soon as possible. We
have supported about a dozen of engineers at Apple testing the JDK with
IDEA so your reports will hopefully get fixed right away.


For one thing you can be sure: They do not use the newest IDEA build to
develop this JDK. A malfunctioning return key is something you'll notice
quite fast.

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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This is Apple's problem for sure, but the return key works in MagicDraw, so I'm wondering if there isn't a patch you guys can give us to get this going! The IDE looks awesome and everything else works as advertised out of the box... NO ENTER KEY??? JESUS! My thought is right now that since the enter key works in MagicDraw 6, there should be something you guys can do! We need you guys to help us out, even though it's not your fault, there has to be something you can do for us, you seem to be 10 times more dilligent than Apple has been in delivering good work.

PLEASE!

R

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Robert S. Sfeir wrote:

This is Apple's problem for sure, but the return key works in MagicDraw,
so I'm wondering if there isn't a patch you guys can give us to get this
going!


Workaround:

Create a new Live Template containing just a new line. I just tried that and
believe the template should be usable without a return key. Unfortunately
the selection menu pops up even though there is only one matching template,
so you'll loose a few keystrokes.

Not really the fastest way to start a new line, but at least a start.

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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Found another key combo. if you're on a PowerBook, you can hold the fn + return key keycombo in a custom keymap to get it to work. ignore what the setting in the keymap says.

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Dirk Dittert wrote:

Workaround:


Or even simpler:

Go to
Options -> Keymap
Create your own keymap if you are still using the default one
All Actions -> Editor Action
Select Enter and add a new Keyboard shortcut

On a German keyboard I would use CTRL # or CTRL + (because those are close
to the return key). Not a perfect solution but faster than my Live Template
approach.

By the way: Why is it not possible to assign the following keyboard
shortcuts to a command:

CTRL-?
CTRL-?
CTRL-?
CTRL-? (maybe that one is possible)

Combinations with the ALT key are also not recognized.

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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Yup and therefore now this 'minor' issue, pretty much locks down everything you can do in idea quickly.

Like I said before it works in other IDEs, I think IntelliJ can help us out here and release a version with a fix.

This is really a shame, the color coding is fixed, the JasperException is fixed, the hanging is fixed, the pretty icons are fixed (not that this mattered), a lot of redraw issues are fixed... idea is completely usable... well almost... :)

Come on IntelliJ make us proud!

R

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"Robert S. Sfeir" <robert@sfeir.net> wrote:

Problem is that the return key works in Magic Draw, so either IntelliJ can
help us out quickly in this case, or Apple screwed up AGAIN! I don't know
who the hell does QA over there, but I'd fire every single one of them!


Oh, I dunno about that...then we wouldn't get Java 1.4 on OS X at all! :)
Seriously, though, it would appear that this reveals some holes in their
"regression suite".

Being participants in both IntelliJ's EAP and Apple's DP Java
releases puts us all in QA positions at both companies. But I like my
job, so please don't fire me. :)

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Seems we find more bugs than they do! IT's just frustration setting in, and my fingers fired off before my brain could cool off.

The problem is that the return key is kind of an important key... unless you like writing all your code on one line.

I guess you could do that, and then hit the ctrlaltl to fix it all :)

R

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Eugene Belyaev wrote:

For one thing you can be sure: They do not use the
newest IDEA build to
develop this JDK.


Unless, of course, they use PCs where it works fine.

Vince.

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In <925086.1044352660451.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Vincent
O'Sullivan wrote:
| > Eugene Belyaev wrote:
| >
| > For one thing you can be sure: They do not use the
| > newest IDEA build to
| > develop this JDK.
|
| Unless, of course, they use PCs where it works fine.
|

Which isn't unusal, a have seen a bunch of Mac OS X developers working
on windows.

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Ctrl-c is not working for me (as well as the Enter key). Using the menu works as expected as does Ctrl-x and Ctrl-v.

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Craig you should try switching to the Mac OS X keymap and then you can use command + c, v, x and z for the standard functions.

As far as I can tell only the return key doesn't work.

The other thing I noticed is that if you check in multiple files via CVS, it will open multiple windows as usual. if you click on the OK button of the top most window it might not work. The problem is that the JDK thinks the focus is on the last window that is opened, which is the window underneath all the other windows, so you have to push all the windows out of the way to get to the last one, and click on in reverse order. Not too big a deal if you check things in one by one.

R

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Vincent O'Sullivan wrote:

Unless, of course, they use PCs where it works fine.


Why would Apple want to develop this JDK on a PC? That does not make sense
at all. Intellij is probably mostly using PCs (with Windows/Linux) and a
Mac or two for doing the Mac port. Please correct me, if I am wrong.

Best regards,

Dirk Dittert

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In <b1oqj1$tk6$1@is.intellij.net> Dirk Dittert wrote:
| Vincent O'Sullivan wrote:
|
|
| Why would Apple want to develop this JDK on a PC? That does not make
| sense at all. Intellij is probably mostly using PCs (with Windows/
| Linux) and a Mac or two for doing the Mac port. Please correct me, if
| I am wrong.

Again, it might not be representative, but I have seen Apple people
developing Mac OS X applications with MS Software, on a PC.

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With an emulator?

"Jens Schumann" <jens@void.fm> wrote in message
news:20030204181722752+0100@news.intellij.net...

In <b1oqj1$tk6$1@is.intellij.net> Dirk Dittert wrote:
| Vincent O'Sullivan wrote:
|
|
| Why would Apple want to develop this JDK on a PC? That does not make
| sense at all. Intellij is probably mostly using PCs (with Windows/
| Linux) and a Mac or two for doing the Mac port. Please correct me, if
| I am wrong.

>

Again, it might not be representative, but I have seen Apple people
developing Mac OS X applications with MS Software, on a PC.



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While I wait for DP10 to download, let me ask a stupid question. Does the "ENTER" key work? If so, can idea be convinced to remap "RETURN" to "ENTER"?

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The answer to this question is: nope.

eric

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I'm the first to admit that I know nothing about Apple computers. The last time I came across one was in college in 1986 and despite programming in various languages and environments since then I've never come across another.

Anyway, assuming the following:

  1. Idea is written in Java.

  2. Java is a "write one, run anywhere" language.


Why do there appear to be so may problems getting it to run on Apples? Do they have their own version or interpretation of Java that requires a custom version of Idea?

Vince.

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Despite the hint of bait here (I'll assume this is unintentional), there are two things to consider here:

a) "write once, run anywhere" is (generously) considered naive, especially where the GUI is concerned. (My experience with "headless" code, but client and server side, has been almost uniformly positive, executing on mac os x, mrj (jdk11), sun-vm's on win32/linux/solaris, ibm-vm's on win32.)

b) we're talking about pre-release software here. I don't see evidence of more custom-coding for mac than for linux - the timing is just different. Remember the performance degradation on linux before the good folks tweaked 3.0?

I'm actually surprised how well 692 works w/o any apparent coding for mac os x - the ridiculous enter key thing not-withstanding.

mike

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Vincent, there are a HUGE number of differences from one platform to the next when it comes to Swing. Some things work out of the box, others need some tweaking.

The thing about the enter or return key not working is just that, on the Mac (not Apple, Apple is the company) you have a return key, and an enter key, you have a delete key and no backspace key, you have CTRL, ALT and COMMAND which is a key that does not exist on Windows or Linux(Not by choice there rather by default inheritance becuase they run on windows based machines), just to name a few.

While the enter key does response (you can see that the name shows up in the keymap settings for custom keymaps) IDEA seems to not be responding with it. This is not necessarily IDEA's fault, it might well NOT be since it worked fine in previous developer previews of the Mac JDK.

We ARE however asking IntelliJ to look into it because a) they're responsive and cool, and b) The return key works just fine with other IDEs. So yes in this case it DOES seem like IntelliJ is doing something special to handle the Mac OS key strokes, and they need to look into it.

The great mark of a good piece of software, is when they customize their interface to provide a unified working experience based on how the platform standards have been set. On windows you might hit ctrlc for copy, whereas on the Mac you hit commandc. It doesn't make one or the other better or worse, it just makes it different... thanks to the lamers at Microsoft who could not, and still don't, stick to standards (and I say that because the Mac OS came out before Windows 3.0... so no flame wars there)

R

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UH Linux does not run on windows based machines, what I meant to say is that they take machines which would normally run windows, and install Linux on them, and therefore they inherit the windows keyboard style and shortcuts (mostly a few are very different there too)

(Just thought I had to correct that before someone blasted me... I like Linux too :) )

R

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Not only that the return-key does not work, I still unable to enter curly braces '{}' when a german keyboard layout is activated. This is a problem since IDEA 2.6 on the Mac. Maybe most developers are using US keyboards but some don't. Other IDEs like CodeGuide or Eclipse work very well with german keyboards. I think IDEA processes keyboards events a little different than other programs. I once asked IntelliJ about supporting non-us keyboards and they said this will happen in 3.0 - well not until build 692. I don't know whom to blame for this but hopefully it will be fixed pretty soon.

To be honest it is worth buying a PC just to code Java with IDEA. Although I'm a die hard Mac fan developing Java on Mac OS X is currently not an option. Not to mention the lack of Java Advanced Imaging and Java 3D. It's so sad: I have a beautiful dual G4 and a 22" Cinema-Dispaly on my desk - to read email, browse the web and working with a shell. But most of the time I use the PC next to it to code in Java - what a shame!

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I'm in the same boat. I love my mac but Apple has such poor support for java I end up using my linux machine instead.

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....

I'm actually surprised how well 692 works w/o any apparent coding for mac os
x - the ridiculous enter key thing not-withstanding.


I agree. And I'm hoping that 693 (downloading now) fixes the "last"
remaining problem. :)

Another point, which hasn't been mentioned, is that for windows and
linux, IDEA bundles a JRE, but with MacOS X, IDEA uses the
Java already on the machine.

Using the already-installed one (once it works) will have lots of
efficiency advantages, due to shared libraries, etc. Using a private
one duplicates all those resources.

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