64 comments

The is no 6.5 release? All along we've heard that Selena is 6.5 but now it is 7 and full price to all those who paid for 6.0?

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Hello Jon,

The is no 6.5 release? All along we've heard that Selena is 6.5 but
now it is 7 and full price to all those who paid for 6.0?


Yes. What was previously planned to be the 6.5 release will be released as
Selena milestones, which will include time-limited licenses.

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


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-I assume the change from "6.5" to "7.0" indicates a broader scope, and thus
a longer development cycle, correct?
-Does that mean we're still in that stage where we can suggest "big" features?
(see below)
-The current roadmap is described as "part 1". Part 1 of how many? Any specific
reason to break the plan into stages like this?
-Some of the mentioned features (Spring, Maven, Hibernate) are not described
in further detail...
Are you going to collect feedback for these for the initial milestone, or
will we just have to wait for the EAP?
For instance: I've been using the IdeaSpring plugin for a while, and it
has a couple of very nice features. I would expect some form of discussion
about features and plans for these frameworks in advance, and not after,
the first Selena EAP release.

-I have not seen any discussion in the forums about the results & winners
of the Plugin Contest.
First place is a SQL code editor (DBHelper), one of the second ones is the
IntelliLang language injection plugin. I hope this selection of winners by
Jetbrains was not a coincidence :)
For the last couple of years, step by step, Idea has expanded its support
for the set of languages found in typical J2EE webapps: HTML, JSP, CSS, Javascript...the
status quo (for me) is that there is one big language left, one that is used
by a majority of users: SQL
This need is the highest for all the embedded SQL string literals that are
passed into the JDBC api (or the Spring JDBC templates)
A minimal implementation that pulls its model from a SQL DDL file (a bunch
of "create table" statements) and has language support for a decent subset
of SQL92 would be a huge productivity booster. (Show usages for column, rename
column, rename table, extract view...)
See the recent "Refactoring Databases" book by Scott Ambler for more ideas:
http://www.awprofessional.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0321293533&rl=1
I remember that SQL support was once on the plan for IDEA 7.0, so what about
it? ;)


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Does this mean there will be no more point releases for 6.0.x after 6.0.3? Because performance is still slow compared to the older versions of Intellij. Granted that this IDE packs a ton of features and all but lately it seems that it is becoming more of a bragging rights of who has the most features than who hsa the most innovative features as well as keeping usability to the same high standards as the 4.5 release.

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Hmm, I'd very much like to see "correct" redo support for Selena - as I
commented in the "Enhancement requests and feature question II" post.
Any comments on this?

kind regards,

Messi

Vladislav Kaznacheev wrote:

http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Selena+roadmap

Vladislav Kaznacheev
Project Manager, IntelliJ IDEA
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with Pleasure!"

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Hello Surya,

Does this mean there will be no more point releases for 6.0.x after
6.0.3? Because performance is still slow compared to the older
versions of Intellij. Granted that this IDE packs a ton of features
and all but lately it seems that it is becoming more of a bragging
rights of who has the most features than who hsa the most innovative
features as well as keeping usability to the same high standards as
the 4.5 release.


It's quite likely that there will be point releases of 6.0.x after 6.0.3,
but don't expect major performance improvements there. In point releases,
we do mostly local fixes, so if there is a local problem which causes a significant
performance degradation, it gets fixed. However, to achieve major improvements,
major architectural changes are typically required. A lot of work on performance
is planned for the Selena release.

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


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Hello Messi,

Hmm, I'd very much like to see "correct" redo support for Selena - as
I commented in the "Enhancement requests and feature question II"
post. Any comments on this?


Right now we don't have any plans to change the undo/redo implementation
in Selena.

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


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Phew. That was a quick ride from little excitement (hooray roadmap is there)
to disappointment (where's the exciting stuff on that roadmap), to being a bit
angry:
6.0.3 is the release that 6.0.0 should have been (performance and bug-wise).
Now only a couple of months later I should nudge my boss into yet again buying
an Idea license?
I think I'll skip this release, your bad - no testing EAPs and reporting errors
from me.

In general I think trying the JBuilder way (two to three major releases each year)
will yield exactly the same results as it did for them: Annoying users and
ultimately decreasing the user base.

Well, I certainly won't switch to Eclipse, but maybe I can continue to use 6.0
for one or two years - NetBeans is starting to look impressive.
Literally its looks are already somewhat slicker than Idea's, it's feature set
is comparable (minus inspections plus better J2EE/diagramming support, and its
usability is getter better and better in each minor release.

Vladislav Kaznacheev wrote:

http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Selena+roadmap

Vladislav Kaznacheev
Project Manager, IntelliJ IDEA
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with Pleasure!"

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0)I have no idea what people are complaining about. A release with support for Spring, Hibernate, Maven, TestNG, and some really drool-worthy looking VCS improvements, available as a milestone in three months? How much faster does JetBrains have to be to satisfy you people!

1)So does this "milestone" concept mean no more weekly-ish EAP releases?

2)More details on the support for Maven and Spring would be very helpful.

--Dave Griffith

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Can You develop Oracle Toplink support too? i'm using it, and i could very appreciate the feature...

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Taras Tielkes wrote:


-I assume the change from "6.5" to "7.0" indicates a broader scope, and
thus a longer development cycle, correct?

Quite right.

-Does that mean we're still in that stage where we can suggest "big"
features? (see below)

Sure. And SQL related stuff indeed looks like proper candidate for
release scope expansion. Any other ideas are very welcome also.

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Stephen Kelvin wrote:

Phew. That was a quick ride from little excitement (hooray roadmap is
there)
to disappointment (where's the exciting stuff on that roadmap), to being
a bit
angry:
6.0.3 is the release that 6.0.0 should have been (performance and bug-wise).

Well, in any case how this relates to the roadmap published?

Now only a couple of months later I should nudge my boss into yet again
buying an Idea license?

No, you shouldn't. We're not going to change major release cycle
timings. As usual we'll have ~a year between 6.0 and 7.0 releases.
During whole 7.0 EAP period any 6.0 license can be used and as usual
there will be free time-limited license published on EAP site.

I think I'll skip this release, your bad - no testing EAPs and reporting
errors from me.

Indeed.

Maxim Shafirov
JetBrains s.r.o

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Dave Griffith wrote:

1)So does this "milestone" concept mean no more weekly-ish EAP releases?

No way! Sure we'll have a usual EAP cycles. The milestone thing is for
those who wants to preview and play with new stuff yet wouldn't like
early development builds. This is like beta but not all the planned
functionality is yet available.

2)More details on the support for Maven

This is for instance a thing we could include into the Selena because
release cycle will be longer. I think we'll start with Ant-like
toolwindow and Ant-like console for the build execution and some
codeinsight in pom.xml editing then... who knows, ideas are very welcome.

...and Spring would be very helpful.
coming.

Max

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Sorry - I was a little too quick. Should have read the "milestone" note.
While the list isn't that exiting - and I really hoped for a 6.5 release -
I hope the good stuff comes later.
A good starting point for some very interesting features might be the
"external annotations" issue.
Also good to hear that there will still be EAP builds.


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Out of curiosity, what would you like to see for 7.0?


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Taras Tielkes wrote:

Out of curiosity, what would you like to see for 7.0?


Good question. I have many wishes, but most them do not make good features
for a major release that's why I was so eager to see the 7.0 roadmap.

One area where Idea is lacking is diagramming support. The only type of
diagram right now is the EJB3 E/R diagram - which is nice, but cannot be
graphically edited at all (even layout changes are discarded).
How about BPEL or even better jBPM support?
Not to mention the JSF designer that was never finished for the last release.

Other enterprise feature could also be supported much better, for example
schemas (including alternate schema languages) and web services.
Including and polishing DBHelper would also a good idea.

The first part of the Selena roadmap looks very nice if only for a 6.1
release. Ironically it contains the very features I miss the most:
Performance and enhancements of current functions. That's simply just not
enough for a major release.

One feature I would really like to see is "smarter completion" based on
external annotations. E.g. press ctrl-shift-space after
"jFrame.setDefaultCloseOperation(" and get really smart suggestions rather
than "i" and "employeeAge". Then include such external annotations for the
JDK by default: null/notnull constraints, valid arguments for "int-enum" style
parameters, etc.

But nothing I mentioned so far is very innovative. I had hoped for something
more exciting.

Oh, another Idea was pursued by Sixth & Red River for a while: I am really fed
up with downloading and configuring javadoc and source code for external libraries.
I don't know what happened to that product, but I always thought it would be
very useful: Simply let Idea figure out where the hibernate/jdom whatever
docs are located and download/configure them automagically.

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>The milestone thing is for
>those who wants to preview and play with new stuff yet wouldn't like
>early development builds. This is like beta but not all the planned
>functionality is yet available.

Cool. Plus, it gives you a small marketing event. Eclipse and NetBeans milestone announcements generate a moderate amount of buzz. If you announce in February that IDEA now supports Spring/Hibernate/Maven/shelve-changes, it could certainly keep your name on people's lips.

So when is the first EAP?

>[Maven] ideas are very welcome

The big wins I see here is remote dependencies and a repository browser/search tool to fill them with. Do it right, and IDEA projects become live things, living in a great big Java ecosystem. Auto-binding of sources/javadoc, automatic setup of transitive dependencies, all the toys. Moreover, this sort of thing is valuable even for non-Maven projects, leveraging their repositories without requiring their build tool.

--Dave Griffith

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Well, including static fields and methods from class of the method being called, matching expected type (JFrame in your example) seems like a good gem by its own:) Thank you for a wonderful idea.

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Hello Stephen,

SK> Oh, another Idea was pursued by Sixth & Red River for a while: I am
SK> really fed
SK> up with downloading and configuring javadoc and source code for
SK> external libraries.
SK> I don't know what happened to that product, but I always thought it
SK> would be
SK> very useful: Simply let Idea figure out where the hibernate/jdom
SK> whatever
SK> docs are located and download/configure them automagically.

Yeah, that was a great idea, I was quite sorry they dropped it. Dave, any
chance of having that resurrected?

Best,
Andrei


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Please do not forget ability to "externally" annotate third party libraries.
The main use at the moment would be to annotate parts of JDK with @NotNull
and @Nullable. If you can also come up with a code analysys tool to do
semi-automated @NotNull /Nullable of source code and build initial external
annotations for JDK it would be evan Better

"Vladislav Kaznacheev" <Vladislav.Kaznacheev@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c8a8a118120dc8c8f4188ee1dc0f@news.jetbrains.com...

http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Selena+roadmap

>

Vladislav Kaznacheev
Project Manager, IntelliJ IDEA
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with Pleasure!"

>



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the JSF designer stands out as missing (considering it was 'announced' eraly
on for 6.0 already). And hints on that?

O

http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Selena+roadmap

Vladislav Kaznacheev
Project Manager, IntelliJ IDEA
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with Pleasure!"



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grouplayout would be nice as in the netbeans matisse gui designer...

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Hello Oliver,

The only thing I can say definitely is that the JSF designer will not be
included in the first milestone release.

the JSF designer stands out as missing (considering it was 'announced'
eraly on for 6.0 already). And hints on that?

O

>> http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Selena+roadmap
>>
>> Vladislav Kaznacheev
>> Project Manager, IntelliJ IDEA
>> http://www.jetbrains.com
>> "Develop with Pleasure!"
--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


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Hello Fazekas,

grouplayout would be nice as in the netbeans matisse gui designer...


It's likely that UI Designer improvements will be planned for a later milestone,
and GroupLayout support is one of the things we're considering.

(Note that it's likely that our support for GroupLayout will look quite different
from Matisse.)

--
Dmitry Jemerov
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com/
"Develop with Pleasure!"


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+1 for JSF integration w/drag-n-drop.

We have several projects that use JSF and will have even more once we get our servers upgraded..

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There is good support for Spring framework right now. Code Completion in XML files is good and refactoring is good. Could you speak to the Spring features. Really what I'm looking for is the AspectJ support in Spring. I really don't want to switch to eclipse to experience the IDE part of aspectj. I know I can compile with the AspectJ compiler but would like it to be more integrated with the IDE. I realize that Eclipse has had the advantage of bringing AspectJ support, but I think this is where some innovations for 07 will be. I would HATE to see Intellij loose out on the innovation race to Eclipse. Any comments to the Spring + AspectJ support? thanks

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Thanks for sharing this information.

One issue that I would like to see resolved is IDEA considering files in
the project directory, but not in any module (in my case that is the
build.xml and project .ipr file mostly which reside in the project root
directory) for source control.

Right now, if I want to make a change to our build.xml file I have to go
to the Perforce client to check it out. I can't do that through IDEA as
that file is not in any module.

I know there are workarounds such as adding a module for those files but
it is really awkward.

Any chance of addressing this petty small issue? :)

Thanks,
Amnon

Vladislav Kaznacheev wrote:

http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/IDEADEV/Selena+roadmap

Vladislav Kaznacheev
Project Manager, IntelliJ IDEA
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with Pleasure!"

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In the spirit of the holiday season, I'll keep the snide comments to a minimum, but will note that in terms of actual user community, JetBrains would be way better off supporting about 80 other languages before adding support for AspectJ: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm .

--Dave Griffith

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If I could slightly disagree with your reasoning, I would probably point that granted IntelliJ is the IDE for Java, a more relevant numbers should estimate the languages used together with Java. Don't know that numbers however...

Eugene.

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